Please explain how Katarina is balanced.

Vaelentino·8/29/2016, 11:41:56 AM·1 votes·1,818 views

Don't worry, I'll wait.

I mean seriously. No resource pool to manage, just cool downs. Ridiculous AP/AD scaling, and not to mention, if she has DAMAGED a champion within 3 seconds that dies, doesn't even have to be by her hand per say, then her cool downs are reduced by 15 seconds. That's a complete reset on q,w,e as even at lvl 1 with no cool down reduction none of those cool downs are longer than 12 seconds.

All abilities require NO COST to activate, and scale off of both AP and AD, which actually scales significantly harder on AD than AP for her w and r.

She has a free poke.

She has an engage and a disengage in the same ability, which gives her a flat 15% dmg reduction for 1.5 seconds if she engages an enemy with it.

And if she successfully hits an enemy champion with her w, she's rewarded with a movement speed buff for 2.5 seconds.

It's absolutely ridiculous, especially when you think about it this way... Even Zed and Yasuo have some sort of resource bar to manage. Don't compare her to Riven either. Riven has been gutted and the most her abilities scale is a flat, 1 to 1 AD ratio, with her q at max level scaling at .6 to every 1 bonus AD she has. Her runic stacks aside that deteriorate rapidly and must be used with an auto attack and are bound by her attack speed, or her controllers animation canceling ability, nothing about Riven's kit is remotely as crazy as Kat's.

Kat's ult scales at 3.75 for every one AD point and 2.5 for every AP point that unloads in 2.5 seconds. If it kills three enemies it can be instantly reset, and oh hey, theres something else. IT conveniently targets EXACTLY 3 enemies nearest to her.

In reality this enables people to play a champion that can literally sit under her tower, spam her q poke and run away until the cool down is reset and come back to send it again. When nearly EVERY SINGLE OTHER MID LANE CHAMPION is governed by Mana, Energy, etc. there is no penalty for her to literally have no impact on a game besides dish our FREE damage every few seconds. Until an opposing champion with a resource pool runs dry and has to either back or be forced to engage her without any resources to counter attack.

It absolutely does not make sense, and even further at 0 cost for any of her abilities why are free abilities allowed to scale so ridiculously enough to be so closely compared to mage burst damage? A knife throwing mercenary has comparable, if not BETTER damage scaling than true magic champions that actually have a resource to manage, I mean wtf is fair anyway?

I do not understand how you call a champion balanced that can out last anyone that cannot deplete her health and continue to farm and push objectives and lanes when the only time she pauses this is to add more damage to her out of control scaling that makes her FREE abilities that much more effective and still very much FREE.

I don't know how League got to this state which there are champions with and without manageable resource pools to cast abilities but how is this even remotely fair in competitive play? I don't want to hear she's squishy, or she's susceptible to cc. MOST MAGES ARE SQUISHY AND SUSCEPTIBLE TO CC, why does this one not have to pay to cast, or any other champion lacking a manageable resource bar for that matter?

I just simply do not understand how you consider one champion with a finite governing resource pool to deal damage through casting abilities (most mages) to be balanced with a knife thrower who has an INFINITE ability to cast damage as long as she's not dead at no cost except for her cool downs THAT RESET WHEN SHE TOUCHES SOMEONE WHO DIES WITHIN 3 SECONDS.

I mean congrats on that, most champions do actually need to be alive to deal damage, we wouldn't want her to be OP I guess.

24 Comments

CerealBoxOfDoom8/29/2016, 12:13:53 PM4 votes

Starting off kat is a terrible pusher I don't care how many pentakills she gets, if she can't push a tower down she can't kill the nexus with those kills

her teamfight playpattern can be interrupted with hard cc. Doesn't have to be all that strong just has to slow her down. She is pretty much countered by supports like most assassins as far as teamplay goes.

katarina has a debuff but no CC.

katarina's range is not that good.

katarina's damage is not that great when she doesn't build heavy damage items.

I don't know how League got to this state which there are champions with and without manageable resource pools to cast abilities but how is this even remotely fair in competitive play? I don't want to hear she's squishy, or she's susceptible to cc. MOST MAGES ARE SQUISHY AND SUSCEPTIBLE TO CC, why does this one not have to pay to cast, or any other champion lacking a manageable resource bar for that matter?

katarina is not a mage

I just simply do not understand how you consider one champion with a finite governing resource pool to deal damage through casting abilities (most mages) to be balanced with a knife thrower who has an INFINITE ability to cast damage as long as she's not dead at no cost except for her cool downs THAT RESET WHEN SHE TOUCHES SOMEONE WHO DIES WITHIN 3 SECONDS.

If the assassin attacks someone then someone should keep them alive, if they don't the assassin wins and benefits from said death. This is how assassins work

There is nothing wrong with this, it also means she, an assassin, is dependent upon your death to balance herself against and use this to ungate more damage. If you do not die then she is gimped.

In reality this enables people to play a champion that can literally sit under her tower, spam her q poke and run away until the cool down is reset and come back to send it again.

which has 0 history of being a viable strategy for laning.. likely due to how minions and towers work

IT conveniently targets EXACTLY 3 enemies nearest to her.

she can't control which enemies stay in range, if volibear walks up then he is going to eat the damage and eat her

nothing about Riven's kit is remotely as crazy as Kat's

riven absolutely shits on kat though

Weathered8/29/2016, 11:46:14 AM4 votes

No cc, squishy, and can be cced.

Risk of Fate8/29/2016, 12:55:50 PM3 votes

Katarina I'll ult them and...

Aatrox Ahri Alistar Amumu Anivia Annie Ashe AurelionSol Azir Bard Blitzcrank Brand Braum Cassiopeia Chogath Darius Diana Draven Ekko Elise Fiddlesticks Galio Garen Gnar Gragas Heimerdinger Irelia Janna Jax Jinx Karma Kennen Kled Leblanc LeeSin Leona Lissandra Lulu Malphite Malzahar Maokai Nami Nautilus Nocturne Orianna Pantheon Poppy Quinn Rammus RekSai Renekton Rengar Riven Sejuani Shyvana Singed Sion Skarner Sona Soraka Swain Syndra TahmKench Taliyah Taric Thresh Tristana Trundle TwistedFate Udyr Urgot Varus Vayne Veigar Velkoz Vi Viktor Volibear Warwick MonkeyKing Xerath XinZhao Yasuo Zac Ziggs Zilean Zyra

As you can see, there are about a hundred ways to stop a Katarina from destroying your team just as with any assassin such as Zed or Talon. She has only one real ability which is her ult. Her bouncing blades does do good damage, but if you stay out of range of minions, you'll be fine. She's very prone to ranged poke as she has to be in melee range to proc the Q damage.

Dealing with resourcless-based champions should be the same as dealing with ones that have some sort of resource which is MANAGE YOUR MANA POOL. Sure, it's limited, but do you really need to constantly use your abilities to whittle down your enemy? Not really, just auto them when they come up to farm. If you're having trouble laning against her, have jungler come gank. She has only one form of escape apart from Flash which is E Shunpo, a fairly short ranged hop to a minion/ward/ally champion.

Ward, pay attention to the map and back off if you have no way of dealing with her, she's reliant on catching people out roaming and has trouble against tanky champions. She begins to fall off late in teamfights because the "3 nearest champions" should be the ones with a lot of MR and Health. Her AD scalings are atrocious compared to her AP which, again, only her ult does massive amounts of damage, everything else somewhat relies heavily on Magic penetration.

Katarina is good for one thing: Eliminating one easy target, that's about it. Before she used to have full resets on everything which THEN that was broken. As with any other Assassin type of champion, you have two options, force them out of the fight beforehand or deal with them immediately. I don't mean "oh, let's get the carry, we'll be fine." No, if you're not making her top priority in every fight, of course she's going to have her way with your back line and get her resets off.

Timethief498/29/2016, 12:10:14 PM2 votes

bronze 2 issues ;) [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

cinomenapplebae8/29/2016, 11:56:54 AM1 votes

that's why shes being reworked.....

Vaelentino8/29/2016, 12:12:06 PM1 votes

So in this broken state with no cost abilities that can be abused as many times as you can press the ability when its off of cool down, how does anyone pretend to act smug, like they are doing something phenomenal when playing this champion that just does shit for free, because yolo I guess?

I dunno, call me a competitive purist, but I'm slightly masochistic when it comes to competitive play. If you are are going to best someone in a certain way, why would you want things done for you in an easier way than someone who is playing the same game but is using a champion that allows more mechanical freedom?

If that's hard to understand, an example would be, say racing a car. I would much rather race a car with a manual transmission, which is more difficult to drive than an automatic transmission, but there are thousands of people who like to pretend they can drive as well as those who operate the cars with manual transmissions, just because the automatics allow them to move at a similar speed with a fraction of the difficulty.

In my opinion, Kat is an automatic transmission compared to a midlaner like Lux who's a manual transmission who actually has to aim skill shots while managing a resource which sometimes makes it harder to win because there is room for error. But at the same time, every beautiful shot, and every error was 100% under your control, not some bullshit like skills that track their target like a shot from a turret.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I wish more people took pride in making your own style of play when you have the freedom to do it with certain champions, but instead will opt to go with simpler champions who do more things for them, or have less limitations because it's a lazier win, per say.

BeatzBoyFTW8/29/2016, 12:28:36 PM1 votes

First, despite what you say she receives absolute 0 picks in LCS & Worlds. Second, she's most likely getting reworked in the incoming Assassin Update patch.

Vaelentino8/29/2016, 12:54:01 PM1 votes

I just really think league should be segregated, not racially of course, but certain champions should be set aside for competitive play, more so the ones that actually require you to aim their abilities rather than some of these champs that are basically press q to perform this scripted ability that will never miss the target you selected for it to act upon.

Vaelentino8/29/2016, 12:56:40 PM1 votes

In any given contest on League, how do you know who's truly better at this game when the game itself varies so drastically as far as the input effort required to achieve the same end, which is your opponents nexus exploding?

FreshAsFebreze8/29/2016, 1:13:53 PM1 votes

shes played maybe once every.......never.

Oleandervine8/29/2016, 11:47:31 AM1 votes

I find it hilarious that you're raging about a character who is like a month away from being reworked in the assassin update. You have wasted your breath sir.

FunkyDan8/29/2016, 11:49:40 AM1 votes

You have no idea how much i want to post a clip of baby mario crying, That said i feel you brother, We are whiny babies but least we can see the current state of affairs (Or just dont know how to counter her) [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Vaelentino8/29/2016, 11:52:00 AM1 votes

I didn't waste my breath... Katarina is at the forefront of my mind on this particular issue of balance of champions with and without recourse pools that limit the use of their abilities. In the assassin update will all champions equally have SOMETHING that governs any sort of comprehensible ceiling on the ability to cast abilities at NO COST.

How in the world is that balanced?