Why does Auto Fill still exist?

4th Shot Killer·Jun 25, 2017·12 votes·5,091 views

Can someone explain to me why autofill is still a thing? The sole purpose of it was to reduce queue times (which is only a real issue in higher elo), yet from what I hear higher elo players hate everything about it since people tend to be incredibly specialized in plat+. Sure, I could learn to play 5 roles but me and my team are gonna be at a MASSIVE disadvantage when I'm playing a role I haven't played in many many games vs. a player on the other team getting their first pick in said role. I mean look at the LCS and any other competent league player, and you can see that they rarely go beyond a single role, let alone two roles. It essentially reduces a ranked experience to a coinflip where you're praying that you don't get matched in your 3-5th best role against someone who literally mains it.

Why Riot, why?

tl;dr: Autofill introduces an unneeded rng aspect to ranked for shorter queue times

51 Comments

Sir FuzziJun 25, 20176 votes

Almost solely to resolve queue times because there would be a vastly underfunded number of supports otherwise.

Autofill demands you actually be good at the game, God forbid-- it takes us back to the era, waaay back when even I played ranked, where you'd get boo'd out of court for being a filthy one-trick. If you couldn't man-handle two roles equally effectively at the minimum, you ran a high risk of being obsoleted in a game.

You're complaining about having to learn. Honestly, if you 'haven't played many games' as anything, whether a champ or a role, you shouldn't be in ranked. Ranked is a competition, not a game. The rest of it is a game; they focus on the sport in the competitive queue. You're expected to be something of an adult, responsible for your own inability to adapt to a situation. That is a weakness, and frankly, you earned that loss for not being quicker on your feet and more ready to take what came. Ranked demands game sense and game knowledge to be on point. The more you can bring before you've even selected a champion... be it knowledge on champ kits, builds, what objectives your composition will take, what kind of jungler you'll be countering, literally anything and everything you can trap in your brain, will all increase your chances of winning a pitched fight.

If all you can do is pray for one role and hope you never get filled elsewhere, you should be in norms and not ranked. I may not play ranked, but I sure as hell wouldn't go in without being able to adapt to at least four of the five positions in the game, especially nowadays-- with players like you (no offense intended) pigeonholing your playability into fewer roles, the ability to adapt is probably very critically what decides a win or a loss. And while I don't care for that responsibility, and won't say I am that adaptable player, I can tell you for certain you are not and you have no place blaming anyone but yourself for your inability to play any champion or role. The game offers you tool after tool to practice-- in fact, barring item sets, the ability to practice has never been more proliferated. And with runes on the way out, maybe now's the time to practice the theory and play, and get into crunching the ranked experience when new runes are out.

TL;DR? It's not anyone's fault but your own that you suck at any given champ or role. Account for, and learn from your mistakes instead of demanding Riot make up for your shortcomings.

Am I the only one who remembers the days where you needed to be able to swing more than one role? Am I imagining this?

MordepoolJun 25, 20171 votes

http://www.supergrove.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/pepperidge-farm-remembers-8-pepperidge-farms-remembers-200x130.jpg

I remember I didn't think I was ready for Ranked until S3. And I started in S1 also only buying champions and Runes with IP hampered my champion pool a little

Sir FuzziJun 25, 20171 votes

I've been playing since S3 and have no illusion that I've a vast amount to learn before I'd call myself ready for ranked.

I will, nonetheless, try to one-trick it if the Victorious skin is tempting enough.

but bet it gonne be fukken Ivern or another tiddy champ like I gaf when it ain't VICTORIOUS NUNU or VICTORIOUS KARTHUS......

MordepoolJun 26, 20171 votes

My favorite Champions are considered shit and won't ever get a Victorious skin. Also I'm an adult with RL shit. Sooooo

4th Shot KillerJun 26, 20171 votes

I'm not demanding that versatility be neglected, but even if you're "good" at a given role, someone who practically mains that role and is in your elo is bound to have an upper hand.

rtbf221651412Jul 4, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Fuzzi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7rYA0WjJ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-06-25T23:29:52.810+0000)

Almost solely to resolve queue times because there would be a vastly underfunded number of supports otherwise.

A diamond + player argued supports are not the role with lack of players but top. However, that same argument was towards wanting to nerf supports, which would decrease the support population. Adding that a riot employee said supports are the hardest to carry with, this adds to the problem.

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

The reason autofill is here isn't mainly because of a lack of role. (That may have been THEIR reasoning though) It's because the majority of the community is in bronze and silver. High rank players don't seem to want to admit this though. If you segregate the community, what do you expect? Low queue times?

That, and Flex or Solo queue should go because 1 person difference isn't exactly a huge difference.

Dodging adds to queue times. Autofill increases queue times for low rank players. (Dodging?) Autofill only really affects high ranked players, but is a bandaid for a larger problem.

Guess why dodging exists? Are you a support, the hardest role to carry yourself in ranked with, and have an ADC who was autofilled? Time to dodge.

TL;DR: Dodging, community segregation, supports being unable to carry a game with dumb or people who were autofilled, and nerfing a role that is already low on players are the main reasons autofill actually exists in the end.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJun 25, 20175 votes

HAVING TO FILL ROLES FOR GAMES HAS ALWAYS BEEN A THING

ITS NOTHING NEW

STOP CRYING

MordepoolJun 25, 20171 votes

It Didn't have a name Prior to Dynamic Que that's the only thing

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJun 26, 20171 votes

so cuz they gave it a name people have an excuse to cry ?

MordepoolJun 26, 20171 votes

Excuse no But now they have a Focus point to rage upon. it has a name now it's hard to be mad at something you cannot define. That's my point

As for OP and people like him . Seriously grow some balls you don't always get what you want in life Make the best of it who knows you might learn something

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJun 26, 20171 votes

ya know i pick FILL in my of my games just cuz of people like this who cry over autofill

MordepoolJun 26, 20171 votes

You sir have my respect

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJun 26, 20171 votes

and ever fukin game today someone goes 0-7 or worst

ÂpëxAug 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7rYA0WjJ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-06-25T23:23:22.530+0000)

HAVING TO FILL ROLES FOR GAMES HAS ALWAYS BEEN A THING

ITS NOTHING NEW

STOP CRYING

Right, so because it has always been a thing we mustn't look to revise the system. Oh how the education system has failed you. Go live in a cave.

Beas7ieJun 26, 20174 votes

We need the option to turn it of. At least way down at my level(I was in Silver at the highest and stopped playing the game completely for over a year so now my elo would probably be at about Rubber 3 or 4) there are plenty of players to get matched with.

While other people may feel otherwise, personally I would rather wait longer to get the role I want with teammates who also got the roles they wanted instead of getting dumped roles we have no interest in playing, let alone are good at.

If other people want to autofill and get shorter times and/or other rewards then great for them. They can do that. Let ME turn it off. I have to wait longer to get my role, I'll wait. I've been in a lot of lobbies where things got toxic FAST because someone got autofilled and no one would trade them. Even had a game where the person dumped into support just ran down mid inting while typing "FUCK AUTOFILL!" in chat every time he inted.

It's one thing to expect people to be familiar with all roles, but it's not to expect people to be proficient in all of them. In higher level play all these "pros" usually play one, maybe two roles. At higher divisions, the people usually play one or two roles. A lot of streamers will just stream them playing one or two roles.

I remember years ago Morello himself comparing this game to real life sports like Basketball and Football and saying that they all had one "map" as his explanation for why Summoner's Rift is the only main map they had at the time and why the canceled Magma Chamber.

Well guess, what. All these professional players just play about one position. If you take a lineman in Futbol Americano and expect him to be quarterback while moving your quarterback to be a linebacker, then things aren't going to go well. If you're playing soccer then you don't take your goalie and move him to be striker(or whatever they call the offensive positions). In each sport, all the main players just have ONE, maybe 2(3 at the most) positions that they regularly play.

Why should LoL get to be the "special snowflake" in this.

If I put top and jungle or mid and top then I want to be in those roles. I don't want this "Oh I see you put in for mid and top so we're going to dump you in support because fuck you" bullshit. I'm nice so I'll ask nicely if someone can trade and just dodge at the last second if no one does, but I've seen other people really get nasty.

TLDR

LET US TURN OFF AUTOFILL!

4th Shot KillerJun 26, 20172 votes

Can't agree more. Make autofill an optional thing for people who are willing to wait.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJun 26, 20172 votes

if u have that option then no one would have it on...

m12lrvRvsBSep 7, 20181 votes

good cuz i want a fair mach i don't want anyone to be autofilled even my foes

m12lrvRvsBSep 7, 20181 votes

#banautofill2018

KVbqbFsC8eJun 25, 20171 votes

It keeps que times lower in order to keep Flex que alive.

4th Shot KillerJun 25, 20174 votes

No matter how long a queue time is, I (and probably 90% of people) would rather wait 10-20 min to play my preferred role than play a 30-40 min game of some role I'm not nearly as good at.

KVbqbFsC8eJun 25, 20172 votes

I agree but if que times actually were that long there would be a ton of complaints. So since we have two separate ranked ques splitting the playerbase, 24/7 autofill is here to stay.

QuephaJun 26, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Master Disaster,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7rYA0WjJ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-06-25T23:05:06.042+0000)

No matter how long a queue time is, I (and probably 90% of people) would rather wait 10-20 min to play

completely wrong, only a very tiny portion of gamers are willing to suffer queue times that bad.

Beas7ieJun 26, 20173 votes

Also doubly wrong, because I reckon quite a few people WILL wait 10 to 20 minutes to play if that's what it takes to get their roles and a good team comp.

QuephaJun 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Also doubly wrong, because I reckon quite a few people WILL wait 10 to 20 minutes to play if that's what it takes to get their roles and a good team comp.

Show me an online game that thinks a 20 minute queue timer is acceptable, a queue of that length is considered a dead queue.

The only example I can think of would be dungeon queues in MMOs like WoW, and those allow you to actually continue playing another part of the game while you're waiting (and players still think of them as dead queues if they take that long)

4th Shot KillerJun 26, 20171 votes

Most well developed MOBA's tend to have long queue timers.

QuephaJun 26, 20171 votes

League: less than 10 minutes for most skill levels in all queues HOTS: less than 10 minutes for most skill levels in all queues DOTA2: less than 10 minutes for most skill levels in all queues

Any time queue times get to be CLOSE to that, all of a sudden the devs start making queue times their number 1 priority because it's completely unacceptable for way too many of their customers.

Beas7ieJun 26, 20172 votes

League of Legends apparently.

First dodge penalty is 5 minutes.

Second dodge penalty jumps up to 15.

I know of many people, myself include who will eat those penalties if they get dumped in a role they're not good at or don't want to play and no one is willing to trade. A small amount will go full asshole and start threatening to troll or int.

Taking this into account, queing up, dodging, queing up again, dodging, can cause for much longer wait times all around than just waiting it out and everyone gets the role they want.

This isn't even taking into account other factors like organizing premades and/or LPQ penalties.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but when I sign up for a role, I want to play THAT role. If I get dumped into a role I don't want to play and/or am not good at, then I will ask to trade, and if no one trades, I'll probably end up dodging if no one else does. This results in the dodge penalty for whoever dodged and everyone else gets tossed back into queue to try and match up again. This makes longer wait times all around. In many cases, longer than just waiting it out until there is a good matchup for everyone to get their role.

Besides, if you were the one play ADC would YOU really want to lane with someone who got autofilled as support, hates that role, isn't good at it, and/or doesn't even have any good champions suited for that role? I know I sure wouldn't, but then again I'm in like Rubber division so what the hell do I know about this game?

QuephaJun 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

First dodge penalty is 5 minutes.

Second dodge penalty jumps up to 15.

Penalties are not queue times.

Beas7ieJun 30, 20172 votes

Irrelevant.

The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of people out there who would rather dodge, get hit with the dodge penalty, wait that out, requeue, and dodge again if necessary if they get autofilled. The dodging also causes a bit of a hassle for the other 9 players who are now put back into queue. Granted they're put towards the "front of the line" but it can still be a hassle.

Like it or not, people have their preferred positions and many of them would rather have to wait a much longer time to get the position they want and know how to play then get rushed into a position they may not be very good at, but completely hate.

Even if I'm not the one to get autofilled, I still don't want to get matched with people who DO get autofilled. Sure I get my position and might do well, but now I have an upset teammate in an unfamiliar position and that may very well cost us the game.

QuephaJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of people out there who would rather dodge, get hit with the dodge penalty, wait that out, requeue, and dodge again if necessary if they get autofilled.

Then there's a great system for you so enjoy your penalty and shut up. The rest of the player base is actually willing to get games off the ground.

Beas7ieJul 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Then there's a great system for you so enjoy your penalty and shut up. The rest of the player base is actually willing to get games off the ground.

Apparently you didn't bother trying to understand my post before trying to be an internet badass and telling me to "shut up".

I urge you to read my post, actually try and take some time to understand it and realize that "a lot of people" is not just myself as an individual. Make COMPLETELY POSITIVELY SURE you understand the difference between "a lot of people" and "just one individual", and then maybe try posting again.

This may be very difficult for you, but I have some confidence in you and wish you the best of luck.

QuephaJul 4, 20171 votes

I did. You said there are a lot of people out there who are so averse to taking turns at positions that need to be filled but aren't popular that they will sit in the sand with their arms crossed and shout "NO" for up to half an hour or longer until they get what they want, and the game already has a system that perfectly supports that attitude: dodge penalties.

Beas7ieJul 6, 20171 votes

And if so many people are willing to "sit in the sand with their arms crossed and shout "NO"" like you say, then that means that maybe it's not all on them, but the system itself that needs some tweaks or adjustments.

If you want to autofill or play with someone that got autofilled into a role they're not very good at or even like where they have to go up against someone who mains that role and thus possibly cost the game, then more power to you. But I don't.

Even if I get one of my preferred roles, I still don't want someone else to be dumped into a role they're not good at. Usually this is support. I've had many a game go to crap where I was doing good top or mid, or even jungling, but our support or ADC was autofilled and even if they tried their best, they got facerolled and now 10 minutes later the enemy ADC is nice and fed and can just destroy anyone by looking in their general direction. And since I took off playing for like a year and am still trying to catch up with the changes, my skills probably put me at a level somewhere in Plastic 3(With training, I may one day climb to Rubber Division, and possibly even Wood), there's no way I'm going to be able to "carry that".

If people like autofill so much, then they can keep it on and Rito can offer some incentives for people to use it, such as increased IP, and/or better chances at getting the loots like key fragments and boxes, but the whole trying to occasionally "force" people into roles they don't want to play completely defeats the purpose of this team builder system in the first place which is to get teams where everyone is in positions they actually want to play.

QuephaJul 6, 20171 votes

The queue simply falls apart without autofill. It was falling apart last season where autofill had to be introduced in high elos and things were getting worse in low elos even though dynamic queue was easing the burden of finding supports. There may be a lot of players who don't understand simple concepts like taking turns but there are way more players (and these players are ones who are also generally less toxic to the community) who would just straight-up stop playing the game if average queue times in sub-plat games went over 10 minutes.

Kai GuyJun 26, 20172 votes

We had team builder, and its que times went to complete shit because no one wanted to wait that long for games, then they got longer so everybody bailed on it. Vicious cycle. Youd get your role and even your champion in that game mode 100%, and the party leader would be able to control the team comp via kicks... but it still fell out of style. hell even I quit playing it when it hit 20 min ques.

Winters DawnJun 26, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Master Disaster,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7rYA0WjJ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-06-25T23:05:06.042+0000)

No matter how long a queue time is, I (and probably 90% of people) would rather wait 10-20 min to play my preferred role than play a 30-40 min game of some role I'm not nearly as good at.

I don't know who you think you're speaking for but no. auto fill will happen to you at most 1-10 games. if you can't handle that then I'm not sure what to tell you.

Kai GuyJun 26, 20171 votes

Also, how does auto fill differ from arbitrarily being placed lower on pick order where you used to get forced to fill? Other then it gives you protection to get your main roles in the next few games.

Winters DawnJun 26, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7rYA0WjJ,comment-id=0000000000020000,timestamp=2017-06-26T02:57:01.335+0000)

Also, how does auto fill differ from arbitrarily being placed lower on pick order where you used to get forced to fill? Other then it gives you protection to get your main roles in the next few games.

you're right what is the difference?? so tell me, what's the difference?? why get mad now? see makes no sense. play the 1-10 games it makes you auto fill and you'll live

Kai GuyJun 27, 20171 votes

Well this is a bit awkward. It seem I have derped on who I clicked reply on. My apology's Winters if this caused you any confusion. I personally like auto fill as a system more then Pickorder or Call order and do not understand why people are being so upset with it.

Critmaster GarenAug 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7rYA0WjJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-06-25T22:58:35.267+0000)

It keeps que times lower in order to keep Flex que alive.

except it doesnt, because people often dodge when they get auto filled.

m12lrvRvsBSep 7, 20181 votes

so why not get rid of it in the 1st place

Darkdemon653Jun 25, 20171 votes

The only sort of valid reason exists in only ranked, and that reason is that part of developing in LoL is learning multiple champions in every role.

Critmaster GarenAug 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The only sort of valid reason exists in only ranked, and that reason is that part of developing in LoL is learning multiple champions in every role.

this is not true.

a lot of high ranked players specialize in a single role.

while its true that you need to at least have played other roles to get a basic understanding of them, and how to work together with teammates playing these roles, you simply cant spread out your champion pool over too many roles before your gameplay starts showing lapses.

you will never get far in this game by spreading yourself out over too many roles. if you want to climb, the best you can do is to really specialize on a single role and build a pool of a handful of champions youre really good at.

Darkdemon653Aug 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7rYA0WjJ,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-08-14T11:26:55.384+0000)

this is not true.

a lot of high ranked players specialize in a single role.

while its true that you need to at least have played other roles to get a basic understanding of them, and how to work together with teammates playing these roles, you simply cant spread out your champion pool over too many roles before your gameplay starts showing lapses.

you will never get far in this game by spreading yourself out over too many roles. if you want to climb, the best you can do is to really specialize on a single role and build a pool of a handful of champions youre really good at.

My point wasn't that it's impossible to climb by playing only one role or champion. My point was that part of becoming truly good at the game and mastering it is developing the ability to play all roles (and champions) to their maximum, and autofill sort of tests it.

I don't think that reason alone is enough for it to exist in ranked, but it is a (and the only) valid defense of autofill nonetheless.

Critmaster GarenAug 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

My point wasn't that it's impossible to climb by playing only one role or champion. My point was that part of becoming truly good at the game and mastering it is developing the ability to play all roles (and champions) to their maximum, and autofill sort of tests it.

I don't think that reason alone is enough for it to exist in ranked, but it is a (and the only) valid defense of autofill nonetheless.

with how the game changes on a monthly basis, this is impossible.

you simply cant master all of the roles. this would require you to pretty much invest all of your life into this game and master a ridiculously large pool of champions.

even pros, who actually do nothing but play this game only focus on a single role at a time.

so for people who want to play ranked and focus on climbing the ladder, auto fill is cancer. most of the time youre facxed against someone on his main champion in his main role, while youre playing an off role/champion that youre playing once out of 20 to 50 games.

i honestly wouldnt mind wating 5 minutes longer in que without auto fill, if the next 30 minutes of the actual game would be more enjoyable.

Buckeye2002Aug 14, 20171 votes

pros and streamers play off role all the time, they are good at the game and know all the roles. you don't have to be stellar support, you just have to know the basics. The game is not that hard.

Critmaster GarenAug 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

pros and streamers play off role all the time, they are good at the game and know all the roles. you don't have to be stellar support, you just have to know the basics. The game is not that hard.

on smurphs. do you not notice how many accounts these streamers have around gold or plat to constantly stomp with off meta builds to make themselves look good?

theyre just rotating through these smurphs while the ones theyre not playing at the time are decaying.

on their main accounts where theyre trying to play serious (if theyre still trying), you will always find them playing the same role, unless theyre auto filled.

Darkdemon653Aug 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7rYA0WjJ,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-14T14:07:46.919+0000)

with how the game changes on a monthly basis, this is impossible.

you simply cant master all of the roles. this would require you to pretty much invest all of your life into this game and master a ridiculously large pool of champions.

even pros, who actually do nothing but play this game only focus on a single role at a time.

so for people who want to play ranked and focus on climbing the ladder, auto fill is cancer. most of the time youre facxed against someone on his main champion in his main role, while youre playing an off role/champion that youre playing once out of 20 to 50 games.

i honestly wouldnt mind wating 5 minutes longer in que without auto fill, if the next 30 minutes of the actual game would be more enjoyable.

You miss my point again. My point is nothing more than autofill, at least partially, tests people's ability to play multiple champions and multiple roles, which could be reasonably argued is an important aspect of one's skill and mastery of the game, which is what ranked is supposed to be about.

m12lrvRvsBSep 7, 20181 votes

i could spend my lobby ban on autofill i would do it every time #banautofill2018