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Vladimir Changes are Massive Nerfs

delivererofdeath·4/20/2016, 3:35:05 AM·14 votes·5,643 views

As a Vlad main I'm looking at these changes that just came out in the PBE, and I'm petrified that I'm going to have to end up finding another main (gotta start warming up my Zac game). Riot did, to be honest, give him a lot of buffs: but it's looking like the nerfs are going to be much larger than the buffs.

So what's been changed? First of all everybody knows that spellvamp was just gutted. That's a pretty big (massive) nerf to Vlad. With Spellvamp runes, WoTA, maxed out E, and Spirit Visage I had over fifty percent spell vamp. With my standard build I ended up healing roughly as much from the vamp on my Q as I healed from the Q itself; off the top of my head over 300 for each. Factoring in 2.2 second CD on my Q that adds up to be roughly a loss of 150 heal per second without having spellvamp. Now that's just spellvamp from my Q; this is ignoring spellvamp from E (full build enough to negate the health cost if used on 4 or more targets) my W and R. So yes, removing spellvamp in of itself was a very large nerf for vlad.

Now let's look at the actual changes Passive: they've decreased his AP into HP from 1.4 to 1, pretty decent nerf, but they instantly make up for it by dialing up the other ratio: 25 HP gives 1 AP from 40 HP giving 1 AP. Obviously they're trying to force a change into building tankier rather than building AP. Overall it's too early and I haven't done enough theorycrafting to say whether it's a buff or a nerf, but just FYI stats from Rylias after change is 116 AP and 500 HP from 110 AP and 540 HP

Q: CD is now lower at early ranks, but higher at max rank compared to live: From four seconds to five (and no the early rank CDs aren't even worth mentioning as Vlad doesn't exist pre level 7 anyways). First of all, that's a 1/4 decrease in healing per second, just off the CD at max rank increase. If Riot were to implement this change alone in a patch I probably would no longer play Vlad. But wait there's more! Heal ratio decreased from .25 to .15: only 60% of the old ratio. Base heal was also decreased. The one buff (and the very obvious one) is that vlad now gets a MS increase after 2 Qs. Yeah that's a pretty decent buff, but it doesn't come anywhere close to the nerfs that come with it.

W: Unchanged. So yeah not a nerf. Honestly this is probably the place you could put the most power back into Vlad if you want to keep his Q as shitty as it is. I would recommend increasing the healing from pooling: I would add back a lot of power to Vlad, keeping him as a teamfighting powerhouse with large regeneration: but there would be a lot more risk to his regen than relying on his Q, as you would be more reliant on landing your W on multiple targets, couldn't do it from range, and you'd have to make a choice between using your W to heal or to dodge. Possibly reduce healing vs. minions while increasing it vs. champions as well to make it that much more impactful to get off a good W in teamfights. The health regen as it is, is fairly lackluster and that's after accounting for his E and spellvamp to be giving him that extra edge. I think that change alone would be enough to go from this being an overall nerf to simply being a rework without being either a buff or nerf. As for the numbers themselves I'd say doubled to 30 percent of damage done being healed would be good (sounds huge doubling it, but again remember it heals less now after the changes, so I'd roughly estimate the healing would only be about fifty percent more; enough that using pool would generally give back more than you lose.

E: CD up at all ranks, range down (very slightly but still some), base damage down, no longer hits all targets in range (similar to Ashe Volley, this is actually going to be a fairly big deal, as it removes a lot of his pushing and teamfight power) and loses the healing increase. It's now a channel, and the longer you charge the more it deals, but the more it costs (up to 10 percent of MAX HP!). On the flip side it has a significantly higher AP ratio and a bonus hp ratio when fully charged, and it also slows. I'm sure Riot would say that it's a buff overall, but I say that it's a pretty sizable nerf. The 10 percent health cost is HUGE, considering Vlad's healing is now on par with say, Ahri, rather than on par with Mundo. Without his old healing, there's no way he's going to be able to sustain the damage a fully charged E will deal to himself, although the damage increase is HUGE also. The main problem is that it no longer penetrates, it's the nerf that sends his E from being neutral in power shift to being a nerf. It's going to HEAVILY impact his pushing and teamfighting potential. With good positioning it could be mostly undone, but having to position yourself so much when it's not really an increase in power is just making things needlessly harder and reducing his power in ways that it shouldn't be reduced.

R: Duration down, increased damage ratio down, now grants heal (pretty damn good heal) per enemy champion it pops on. Huge loss in teamfight potential for the whole team, but a decent buff for his own self healing. You and your team have less time to put your damage in on the diseased targets, and it's dealing less on top of that. The heal isn't really THAT big (about as big as an old Q per enemy champion, but on average I only really hit about 2 or 3 targets per teamfight ult, and I land it on only 1 (of whiff it) target more often than not. I can kinda see where you're going with making him more reliant on landing good ults in teamfights to make having good mechanics more rewarding, but considering all the factors it didn't help that much. Also just going to say that you could heal a lot off ult anyways with spellvamp, and that even if you land great ults: the healing won't do ANYTHING unless you can survive the duration, or if the target dies before it pops (one of those 2 happen I'd say 70 percent of the time, I either die and then the ult gets me a kill, or a teammate or myself kills the target, only having needed the extra damage, and not the pop itself.) Ironically this would add the feeling that you shouldn't be hurting anybody that you ult out of fear that you'll lose your own heal, even though it's designed for you to be able to fight that person better.

Summary: You've basically made it so that his healing is less for sustain, and more so that you can E more often at full charge. You've loaded all of his power onto his E, but even then is arguably in a worse state due to the fact that it won't hit all enemies in range. I'd say that the best course of action is to undo his Q nerfs, and leave the Q MS buff as compensation for the loss of spellvamp, or do something along the lines of what I said for his W. I do actually very much like how much smoother and more mechanical he plays now, so I think that should stay. However I think you went outside of Vlad's core tenants and made him less about an annoying regener and more of a generic damage dealer.

TL;DR: Massive nerfs in every aspect except E damage, and slightly added utility. Needs to have healing increased to compensate or he WILL fall flat on his face.

26 Comments

Charmed by Ahri4/20/2016, 6:23:12 AM4 votes

These Vladimir changes are disgusting!!! His Q is aweful according to the PBE changes Transfusion Q pbe 80/100/120/140/160 (+0.45) magic damage and healing himself for 20/25/30/35/40 (+0) health. Live transfusion 90 / 125 / 160 / 195 / 230 (+ 60% AP) Self Heal: 15 / 25 / 35 / 45 / 55 (+ 25% AP) That's literally a massive Nerf compared to live. His Live rank 3 Q deals the same damage as his PBE rank 5 Q. That's a 70 damage difference including a .15 scaling Nerf. His early and late game power is going to be negligible.

Vlad's reworks are nothing more than straight up nerfs. While every champion that's been reworked to date have been seen as incredibly over powered. Ryze, garen, quinn, Darius. Then even the other mages keeps their damage why? Anivia's E still crits! That means at level 9 with one item she hits for over 500 damage for missing Q and placing her ult on someone?? Then malzahar still maintains his E damage, which is all he spams in team fights until someone foolish decides to dive him until they meet his ult. So malzahar maintained his primary source of damage and scaling which is 80/120/160/200/240 (+0.6). Syndra's Q ratio increased to .7 from .6. Fiddles gets to keep massive heal on W. Cassio's W now shuts down blinky champions keeping them grounded along with a Q that hits for 75/120/165/210/255 (+0.7) and then velkoz's ult now deal true damage???

Why wasn't Vlad shown any love?? All of that listed sounds toxic in comparison to Vladimir's measly changes that turned out to be extreme nerfs. Why can't his Q keep a .6 scaling ratio and keep his Q damage. The Q heal is going to be unnoticeable too! Vlad is literally going to be champion who's skirmishing power is weaker than any top laner or mid lane. Above all a champion who is forced to passively farm until team fights. All he is now is a walking damage amp ult. That's all? How is this fair? How is this going to be fun for Vladimir's mains or players? The changes are more brain dead than ever. He needs some reconsideration asap.

Kotex4/20/2016, 4:02:35 AM3 votes

I named myself Kotex because vlad was my favorite champion... im just as saddened by all of this as well... it's a terrible loss. Even worse with the removal of spell vamp. Riot has made it clear that they just want to make mages look flashy, but they don't want them to be practical. with their own sustain. Nerf mana, and spell vamp time and time again until theres nothing left for them.

I hope they at least leave spell vamp runes. I was disgusted with the article so i refused to read it. But if they take away spell vamp runes too...

MasqureMan4/20/2016, 8:38:51 AM2 votes

Vlad is straight up destroying people on the pbe, so I don't think it's as bad as you think. His E feels very good, it's so strong that having to actually aim it sometimes is nowhere near a detriment. It still waves clears easily, his Q goes from good to oppressive depending on who you're laning against. He just feels good, and as a long time Vlad player I'm excited. The loss of spell vamp other than Gunblade does hurt, but his Q heal is still good. I'm sustaining very well post max out Q.

Grinding4/20/2016, 7:33:57 PM2 votes

I'm pretty sure hes a million times better now, I don't know what you're talking about.

The Bearded Bard4/20/2016, 8:46:18 PM1 votes

You haven't even played him yet.

WitchQueen Annie4/25/2016, 11:07:15 AM1 votes

Lets be honest here. The proposed changes to Vlad right now have NERFED him. Everything that was strong about him... his spell-based DPS, the consistency and reliability of his kit and abilities, his in-lane sustain, his overall damage output... all of these things have gone DOWN. In light of this, the rework as it stands now can only be fairly characterised as a FAIL.

I KNOW Riot is obsessed with counterplay windows but it makes no sense in imposing this concept on Vlad when the net result is to nerf a champ that is ALREADY in a pathetic state in the Meta. Vlad currently has a less than 50% win rate and so any sort of change that hurts him more than it helps him has to be viewed as a failure (even if it reinforces values such as counterplay windows).

The proposed rework should either make him STRONGER (more viable, more attractive to play) or keep him the same. It should not be a nerf. Yet the current changes are a nerf. People play and pick Vlad over other champs because of his spell-based DPS, the consistency and reliability of his kit and abilities, and his in-lane sustain. ALL OF THESE THINGS HAVE GOTTEN FATALLY WORSE AS A RESULT OF THE REWORK AS IT STANDS.

Why did people pick Vlad over more meta picks like Lux or Ahri or Xerath? For many people it was the vampiric and the blood themes. But in terms of gameplay, its because of the consistency and the reliability and the consistent power of his abilities. If you're having a bad day , you'll miss all of your Lux binds, you'll miss all of your Ahri charms, you'll misplay all of your Zed combos. But Vlad's consistency consistently rewarded those who immersed themselves in consistent practice with him. Now that you've made him unreliable... there is literally no gameplay reason to pick him anymore.

You've essentially gutted his Q and his E to a level that is in my view, fatal to the character.

Q: Lowering the base sustain and damage (ESPECIALLY now that you've removed Spellvamp) and then transferring so much of that power to the third Q is a bad idea. It completely destroys his consistency and reliability. Its nothing short of a nerf. How the heck are you going to land those third Qs when its so heavily telegraphed to the enemy that Crimson Rush is on? Anyone who remotely understands Vlad now is going to kick his teeth in. I also don't understand the logic in REDUCING his sustain per Q at a time when you are removing Spellvamp from the game.

E: It used to be a real AOE instant fire spell. Now its a ''it takes time to charge and it will only hit the outer layer of targets so it will be frustrating to aim at champions AND IT WILL DO LESS DAMAGE'' skill. This is a nerf to Tides of Blood in every way imaginable. It will completely destroy his spell-based DPS and his wave clear. Why did you do this? And as others have pointed out, you can't spam E anymore since you've removed spell vamp, half the time it might not be worth casting anymore.

Also... you have not sufficiently compensated Vlad for the loss of spell vamp. Now E doesn't even boost the amount of health you grab from Q (before, Vlad could count on that). In addition to this, you've inexplicably removed the amount of health that Q takes from the enemy.

To sum it up, this is a bad way to go. You're destroying the tactical appeal of the character by fatally chipping away at his in-lane sustain, the consistency and reliability of his kit, and his spell-based DPS.

You've turned his Q and E into very bad abilities that are unreliable and can't be used as frequently (while outputting far less damage and getting far less sustain for it).

What you're going to get... is 2 to 3 weeks of large amounts of Vlad plays (people are attracted to the novelty)... then you're going to see a steep decline in the play rate because people will realise the fatal problems this rework has introduced to an already out of the meta champion.

Why can't you just leave Vladimir as he is currently? I'd rather play the Old Vlad WITHOUT the spell vamp items than this new over-nerfed Vladimir you've created. I am going to lose faith in Riot if you REALLY choose to go down this road. I am very disappointed.

Fro5t1234/29/2016, 6:49:22 AM1 votes

First, its pbe so changes aren't permanent, 2. what you are complaining about is what was unhealthy with vlad to begin with (hence why it has changed), 3. Pbe players don't know ideal builds (since he is now "new") and there are new items. Simply put Vlad has changed from "e all the time and q to sustain' to 'q all the time and e to AoE nuke'. The only valid point I have seen made is that his q is a bit underwhelming (which can be fixed with base damage changes or ratio buffs). remember his e is now a channel so the loss is controllable, and the damage is based on max health AND 0.7 ap- therefore you would be better served building more tanky (SV, Randuins + Zhonya's and Abyssal) over pure ap. Also now he actually requires skill to play.

Dragonface4/20/2016, 3:41:33 AM1 votes

Did you not read the last part of his Q....?

Vicarious1174/29/2016, 6:54:41 AM1 votes

TL;DR

Fact of the matter here is that Vlad is most likely going to need nerfs soon enough due to how much destruction he's causing on the PBE. Sure, yes it's hard to see balance on the PBEs, but when one champ dominates as often as Vlad is right now, even on the PBE its kind of obvious to see he's not being nerfed.

You're just sad because he's gonna be different and for some reason are unwilling to give the changes a shot, at least vocally, cause we all know you will still play him and enjoy him more cause he's so much fucking stronger in every regard. So maybe try to hold back your tears and rage threads until you actually get some experience with it.

MatthewRT24/20/2016, 3:46:12 AM1 votes

so at lvl 5 his Q lost 70 damage, just saying.

I feel as if they just reverted it to the original E (animation with more "flashy" VFX) and keep the charge function it would be much more beneficial and not seen as a huge nerf to him. Removing the ability to hit everything in his area really hurts his overall performance to an almost UN-usable state. This e change made it harder to sustain, removed his wave clear, SIGNIFICANTLY lowered his damage output because its so easy to block, and leaves you with just your Q as a damage source during lane phase

Redington4/20/2016, 3:53:20 AM1 votes

As a vlad main im worried about the changes to him but ill have to play him to see :/ i finally found a champ i loved and could play all day everyday and this happens :/ if its a nerf guess i wont be playing as much... But more time for dark souls i guess

newbin4/20/2016, 4:07:01 AM1 votes

This isn't a nerf it's a shadow revamp. His play still will be AP bruiser instead of tanky ap. Increased his harassment potential in lane but trading some late game power for survival and staying power.

A better description would be a VLad who was feed early game so mid game you can't get ride of him in team fights because you can't out pace his sustain. does that make sense to any one?