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Riot, League Community, can we all stop what we're doing and just look at Zilean's passive?

YvieZileanOddly·6/24/2015, 12:02:14 PM·218 votes·6,755 views

Quoted from Reddit: So the average minion gives you 44 xp (halfway between the 29 for casters and the 59 for melees). Multiplied by .55 for a shared lane is 24.2. Since he increases experience by 8% that means his lane reaches level 2 how much faster? Let's find out!

(280 / 24.2) -(280 / (24.2 * 1.08) ) = .857! So that means you hit level 2 almost but not entirely 1 minion faster than your enemies!

You read that right, folks. And that's not even mentioning the fact that he literally doesn't have a passive at level 18.

I feel like before we even touch on other problems about Zilean, or before Riot even thinks about doing anything balance related, somebody over there needs to step up and change this passive. Leaving his passive in this state is nothing but carelessness and laziness, and I'm honestly disappointed in whoever did this rework.

But it's not too late to fix your mistake! All you have to do is change his passive to something meaningful. And here I am, creating a discussion just for you, Riot, to gather ideas. You don't need to thank me.

So, people of the League of Legend boards! Let us rise up and give ideas for a new passive to our good ol' chronokeeper!

An idea on reddit that I thought was really good was a mana regen aura. This would especially be helpful to Zilean support, and imagine what it could do for adcs like Ezreal or Varus! And if you don't want to change the passive altogether, you can always just increase the experience gain to something meaningful. I think a 15% gain is a reasonable amount, considering the fact that he still wouldn't have a passive at level 18.

Please upvote and comment to get Riots attention! And for the lazy, just type "I" if you agree.

1 upvote=1 tear

Thanks 4 the support

96 Comments

LankPants6/24/2015, 3:26:41 PM33 votes

The only reason Zil's passive was ever good was because it made solo lanes hit lv 2 off of first wave, if it can't do that it's completely useless.

canpan146/24/2015, 1:00:26 PM19 votes

Mana regen doesn't make any sense thematically. I think the passive makes sense for who he is, it is just really weak. If they buff it then it might become too strong. I think it is just in a place where it doesn't change the game so they aren't focusing on it.

Maybe give a CDR aura? I think that would match with his kit and would provide a nice bonus. Maybe 5% cdr would be right.

Matezoide6/24/2015, 5:10:54 PM12 votes

Remember when Riot wanted to give his Passive some free AP, but then they just made it worthless?

Good times.

SociopathFriend6/24/2015, 8:21:38 PM7 votes

It's passives like Zilean's that make me wish Riot actively stole/accepted ideas from the community.

Zerana6/24/2015, 6:15:09 PM7 votes

I like what someone suggested in another post

Passive: Every 8 seconds whenever Zilean casts a spells that spells cool down is immediately refreshed.

The W is removed with this passive and changed to an aoe Nasus slow and sped up for allies same aoe as Nasus but think Orianna ball effects complete with attack speed slows and ally attack speed ups that stacks when double cast. Maybe a 15% attack speed increase and MS buff and that same slow can happen to the enemy.

His e and q would be unchanged but with that many slows it wouldn't matter how hard it is to land the q shot :)

and before anyone says oooh so unbalanced too many slows, Anivia has a complete slow kit excluding the wall that also slows attack speed. Shes a mage though, whereas Zil was supposed to be more of a support so attack speed increases in his spells make sense.

k wìx6/24/2015, 6:12:05 PM6 votes

Here you go guys, I got a Zilean rework for you:

New Passive: Foresight Each time Zilean uses an ability, he and all allied champions within 1500 gain a foresight charge. These charges last for 10 seconds and can stack up to 3 times. If you suffer damage while you have a foresight charge, reduce the damage by 10% per stack. _(This gives Support Zilean a stronger defensive suit and opens up some more build paths. It's a lot more feasible to build defensive items on him and makes him a lot less helpless against strong initiation supports like Leona.) _

Time Bomb: If the bomb lands within 100-units 150-units of a unit or a unit moves within range while the bomb is on the ground, it will attach to them and will detonate from their current position at the end of its lifetime. (Essentially a small buff to landing the 'sticky' bomb.)

Rewind & Time Warp: As Is.

**Chronoshift: ** If the target takes lethal damage during that time, they will be placed in Stasis icon stasis for 2 1 seconds, becoming untargetable and invulnerable but also unable to perform any action. (Speeds up revive time)

Dr Birdie6/24/2015, 4:23:35 PM6 votes

My friend and I really enjoy creating champs in our free time and I think the passive I had on one of the champs I made would work pretty well with Zil, both mechanically and thematically.

Distorted Aura: Zilean distorts time-space in an area around him, slowing any projectiles within it. If the projectile hits its target while within this aura, its damage is reduced by a percentage.

The percentage scales with milestone levels. Don't really have numbers for it though, as I designed it for more of a tanky support. With Zilean having more damage and utility the numbers would be different from my original design.

5512026/25/2015, 9:12:27 PM3 votes

All Zilean need right now: **- A new passive: his other abilities are fine IMO

  • A new model: Everyone know that there is no fun playing a champ with outdated model...
  • New quotes, there is 125 champs, he could have joke/taunt about Ekko or Velkoz , he could say so much more... more than 9 quotes...**

If zilean get all those things listed above, his popularity will increase, players will buy his skins and everyone will be happy!

The Ecdysiast6/24/2015, 6:56:20 PM3 votes

The only reason it's worthless is they changed it from the whole team to just your ADC and you. Or just you.

Artaccusations6/25/2015, 2:25:04 AM3 votes

You know what would be neat for Zilean? Having an in-game time based passive. Like, at X~ amount of minutes, it does X. Maybe he has an increase in Exp until 20 mins, where it changes to cooldown reduction or mana gain. I am not saying it SHOULD be this, but it would be neat if it were.

BigPurplAndVeiny6/25/2015, 5:23:32 AM3 votes

when ever an enemy is affected by Zileans spells, both their attack speed and cast times on abilities are slowed down by a certain percent, makes perfect sense thematically and slowing down cast times is definitely useful and unique. (rito plz)

Frikgeek6/24/2015, 6:32:25 PM2 votes

So you're just going to ignore that he gets lvl 6 sooner even when he's pushed in? Zilean has problems in his kit, ensuring his ADC gets the lvl 6 powerspike first isn't one of them.

Synx76/24/2015, 5:16:39 PM2 votes

Zilean is a lost cause . Damn, i've had so much fun with it , but riot decided to rework him. Asking for feedback? We give them feedback but they do whatever they want nevertheless. And ofc they won't admit it that they failed with this rework. No gaming company wants to admit that they failed, they're always right in w/e they do. Revert the rework, put somve VFX updates on the old abilities and change his passive, done. Ik, not gonna happen, riot doesn't revert anything

Rebonack6/24/2015, 6:24:05 PM2 votes

(Innate) Relativity: Zil produces a time distortion in a 1200 aura around him, removing the movespeed soft cap from allies and causing slows to stack additively (up to a root at 100%) against enemies.

There you go.

Now he does neat things.

KidKaiser6/24/2015, 6:41:53 PM2 votes

before his kit change. his passive worked well in solo laning.

hit lvl2 off of the first wave. meaning? pre-poke bombs. hit lvl2. flash+ignite QWQ cheese.

but then the [ROFLULWTF] rework happened. it's like they intentionally nerfed him to oblivion and gave him an unreliable stun to [balance] him out. some people defend the rework that its a HUGE BUFF to Zilean cuz yay stuns. but they don't play Zilean enuff to realize that his stun doesn't work correctly.

1st bomb hits enemy champion. 2nd bomb hits the minion NEXT to the enemy champion.

lulwut?

but yeah. his passive. a whole kit change, but passive remains untouched. they might as well make it global again.

Karcist6/25/2015, 5:43:48 AM2 votes

How about something where his active abilities on the map gain a weak sunfire type aura around them? So if he uses E on someone there would be a damaging aura around them, or lands a bomb etc. The burning aura could scale with AP to work well with mid Zilean, or could just be a flat amount. They could even make it into a percent current HP aura that could be a weaker version of Amumu's despair that doesn't scale with AP to work better with support Zilean (maybe like 1%).

It wouldn't necessarily be too thematic, but it would add another element of decision making into his kit. It would also give him a bit more damage without allowing him to bully.

WhiskerWow6/24/2015, 4:09:08 PM2 votes

A mana or a CDR aura is really boring in my opinion, and almost as invisible as the experience passive. Plus, Zilean doesn't really need mana regeneration that much anymore. When they reworked him, they removed most, if not all of his mana problems.

Daedalus8716/24/2015, 8:26:31 PM2 votes

Passive: Sands of Time: When Zilean debuffs an enemy, they take (X + Y*(Zileans Level) + Z*(AP)) Magic Damage per Second for the duration of the debuff. Sands of Time stacks up to 2 times.

Maybe add some healing to allies, but that could be problematic.

Psst Psst6/24/2015, 9:20:32 PM2 votes

Since Zilean is all about time manipulation = cooldowns etc, how about giving him a 2/4/6% cooldown reduction as passive (in given radius, sucha as jannas passive), or 5% flat passive at all lvls? Thank me later.

Edit: someone already mentioned it. Seems legit solution.

Ogaflow6/24/2015, 10:10:51 PM2 votes

Personally I would love to see his W move to being his passive, this becomes increasingly more likely as they are looking to remove the mana cost on the ability already(Read the latest PBE patch notes, it is currently in AIR changes, not actual). If W were his passive and that every little while he could double cast his non-ultimate level abilities then they could solidify either his mage or support play pattern and end this "is he a support or is he a mage" question. I am unsure as to what to add in place of W but I can imagine there are many options out there.

ElJanitorFrank6/24/2015, 10:36:18 PM2 votes

Well his passive used to be much better when it was global, I'd almost called it overpowered in higher play.

Getting a level advantage on 1 minion can easily set up both of your solo lanes for a kill.

It was so good at passively helping the team I always used to put him on my team when I practiced something in bots so I could get all my abilities sooner.

Wasabo6/24/2015, 10:48:50 PM2 votes

I think his passive should be redone, also, it would be nice if his Q gave MR/Armor to allies, cause they're engaging

AbyssionKnight6/24/2015, 11:50:20 PM2 votes

Personally I think Zilean should get a new W. Scrap the existing one, and turn it into a passive. I don't know precisely how it'd work, but I think that one thing that's always held zilean back is having only 3 skills (and that his W is so powerful), and this would not only give him a fourth skill and free up a fair bit of his power budget for that new skill, but also a passive that's useful all game.

Since the above change would destroy Zilean's ability to double bomb, I would also change his Q by giving it an ammo system (max 2 stacks). The logic there being now Zilean has more decision making. Do I spam my bombs and delay my ability to land a stun, or do I reduce my damage / harass, but have the ability to land that double bomb damage / stun.

I don't know what his new W would be, but it could be supportive or damage based in order to compensate for the changes to his Q.

JW Sephiroth6/25/2015, 12:26:55 AM2 votes

Zilean post rework has seen a fair bit of avoidance. His stun, in my opinion, is probably one of the hardest to land. You don't have to land one skillshot, but TWO skillshots. Back to point, the passive that he has is completely unnoticed at all times of the game.

Experience gains is a unique passive that Zilean holds, and that might cause people to want to keep it, however, I think experience gains shouldn't be tampered with passively.

If I had to make a suggestion, I would say rework the passive entirely. For example, give him a passive that states "If Zilean or a nearby ally take damage greater than 40% of their health in the last second, they will heal for a percentage (5?) of that damage." (180 second cooldown) This would allow Zilean maybe a larger window of opportunity to place his ult on an ally that was bursted on.
Numbers would definitely have to be tuned pretty hardly, but since his ult is no longer up every 25 seconds, and only lasts 5 seconds, I think this helps him use it when it's needed.

Just a suggestion I came up with on the spot, since I didn't want to demand a change without giving an idea.

Penta Penguin6/25/2015, 4:08:39 AM2 votes

Mana regen is boring and would end up borderline useless anyway because mana regen can easily become OP with not very much

League used to have a mana regen aura item and it was removed

**I really Zil's passive should have somethign to do with cooldowns, like his W. Let him have a CDR aura to nearby allies maybe?

(then let him BREAK the CDR cap for himself and allies with his passive late-game!)**

Sir Fuzzi6/25/2015, 4:31:53 AM2 votes

I always wondered about the math and never did it, so thank you.

The delivery of 'almost but not entirely one minion faster' is basically the most soul-crushing description of a passive I've ever heard. Put that way, it seems a bit skewed that Riot hasn't responded.

I think having a red post would shed some light. They might be working on it already.

Whatever they do, they needn't brick him as hard as they did Ryze. I think a CDR aura that's proximal would do just fine-- it'll only help his team in pitched teamfights where he's otherwise just sort of hovering around the back and hoping he lands some bombs. If teammates relied on it, it'd also take some wind out of their sails if he were knocked down.

Alternatively, targeting an ally with an ability confers a small 'timescale' boost for 1.5 secs or something-- I saw this concept in another game and it basically refers to the frame of time in which the target takes place. Since it was broken in the game it was in I'd highly suggest it needn't be severe, but a 10% timescale boost for a few seconds on allies targeted by his abilities would be a nice benefit for them and for Zilean as a support affecting his allies, setting up with bombs and the like.

I dunno, just an idea. I'm just mostly here to say I love the description of his passive as-is.

Slushi Simcambi6/24/2015, 3:51:22 PM2 votes

Hmmm... What if whenever he makes a mistake he can just press a button and recover all his health, return to a safe position, living to penta another day?

O w8

Only Play Darius6/25/2015, 5:50:05 AM1 votes

I made a thread a while back just like this one, highlighting how worthless his passive is and suggesting a change for it (almost no one commented on it Amumu ).

My suggestion was that every time Zilean casts a spell, he reduces the remaining cooldowns of his nearby allies by a percentage (think MasterYi's passive on his ult)

runrunTJ6/24/2015, 9:11:49 PM1 votes

When allied champions near Zilean (including Zilean) take damage, it turns into "blue health". Whenever Zilean uses an ability on an ally with blue health (can't use Rewind to proc on himself), the ability consumes the blue health and restores a portion of that ally's health equal to 20% of the blue health consumed + 20% of Zilean's AP.

When an ally with blue health, other than Zilean himself, is not within a 1000 unit radius of Zilean, the blue health decays by 25% each second. There is no loss of blue health as long as the ally stays within range. Zilean, however must use an ability on himself within 4 seconds before the blue health starts decaying.

The only other way to lose blue health is through death, and it is still lost even when a revival ability ACTIVATES, such as Yorick's Omen of Death, Zilean's Chronoshift, or when a Guardian Angel activates.

Phil Fly6/24/2015, 6:46:35 PM

Passive aura: speeds up allied champion's timescale in a nearby radius by 5%.

So take all your current attack speed, cdr, and multiply by 105%. movespeed is different. Multiply by 103%.

325 MS -> 335 MS (soft caps would still apply) 1.300 AS -> 1.404 AS (hard cap of 2.5 would still apply) 40% CDR -> 42% CDR (2% might not seem much, but it's still a 5% increase in how many spells you can cast)

If this is still too shitty, you could always ALSO apply a debuff of 5% (3% for MS) to the enemies, along with your allies' buff.

325 MS -> 315 MS (not that bad of a debuff, not that OP) 1.300 AS -> 1.235 AS (still not that OP) 40% CDR -> 38% CDR (still not that OP)