Boards›Gameplay

Why I always ban Yasuo (replay inside)

MurderByNumbers·6/14/2017, 8:26:59 PM·20 votes·1,765 views

Laning vs Yasuo feels the same whether you're winning or losing

I was playing Jhin on ranked TT. Yasuo was my lane opponent.

Yasuo contributed almost nothing to his team. He ended the game 1-10-2, with the least damage to champions. Their 5-2-4 Zac handed him his only kill (on me) on a silver platter.

In contrast, I put the team on my back. My 5/4/6 kda doesn't show it, my other stats do:

  • Doubled Yasuo's cs in the laning phase (off hand I remember 72-36 and 130-70)
    • 312 cs by game end (highest in game by 50; Yasuo had 202)
  • 48,360 damage to champions (their whole team combined did 48,409)
  • 14.8k gold (1.5k above the next player, 3k above their best).

On my main, I'm high gold. On this account, I'm Silver 3 in 3v3. I think it's fair to say I'm likely significantly more skilled than this Yasuo.

Laning ended at around the 19 minute mark, and Yasuo had 5.6k gold to my 7.1k. So, you'd expect that I had complete control of the lane, zoning him off the wave, right?

Actually, it looked like this:

https://vimeo.com/221642134

I ban yasuo every game because he retains complete control of the laning phase almost no matter how behind he falls*. It's incredibly tilting to feel like it's impossible to get a lead, no matter how well you play.

I welcome any advice on what I could do better, particularly in this game. I acknowledge this is TT, not SR, and my jungle/bot being so far behind and their Zac means I can't pressure very much. Regardless, my feeling in this game was pretty typical of my games against Yas, whether I'm winning or losing.

*In most ranged matchups, which is most of the champions I play in solo lanes

Match history link: http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2524127058/233240291

Replay link: http://www.mediafire.com/file/s4kcy2slq1dymzh/yasuo.rofl

15 Comments

MrBuffington6/14/2017, 8:36:29 PM14 votes

I welcome any advice on what I could do better, particularly in this game

well clearly you forgot to ban yasuo :3

Asayake 5150glow6/14/2017, 8:39:13 PM10 votes

I feel this has very little to do with Yas himself, and far more to do with you, as Jhin.

Jhin is an immobile marksman with low waveclear (without E'ing, which you didn't). As such, once Yasuo fell behind, he hard shoved the wave to get as much CS as he could while retaining pressure. Play anyone with ok waveclear and this would not have happened.

You'll see that he Wind Walled almost every time he went up to push. This hard shove is very bad at getting last hits, causing his low CS score. It is only used to pin you in.

I'm not sure wards exist, but if this were a normal game and you had wards, I would recommend playing far more aggressive, walking into his minions and harassing him before he can even touch your minions.

That being said, this is also a skirmisher vs ADC match up, and you're not one of the duelist ADC's (Draven, Lucian, Quinn, Vayne, etc). By design you should be outscaled as you shouldn't be able to 1v1 a skirmisher without outplaying. Any bruiser would do the same - most would actually have an easier time of it, having higher base damages and more reliable gap closers.

For example, if you were facing a Vi, you might've kept control of the wave, but more likely, after lvl ~7, Vi would all in you with ult every chance she got, and would thus be the one bullying you out of lane.

Salron6/14/2017, 10:21:01 PM4 votes

Immobile ADCs tend to have to give lane control to mobile high damage threats even if they fall behind A Zed, Talon, Fizz, etc. in that same situation would still have lane control, this is not exclusive to Yasuo, any skirmisher/assassin creates the same scenario

Especially Jhin who basically only has Q in lane since if they all in you, you're unlikely to land W, E is unreliable, and R simply cannot be used unless they limp away from you at low hp

Jhin is literally one of the worst, if not the worst champion to go into this sort of matchup

SquashCannon6/14/2017, 10:45:20 PM3 votes

1 its twisted tree line top lane, a ridiculously narrow lane perfect for yasuo. In a 5v5 the lanes give MUCH more breathing room.

2 youre an immobile, limited AS adc whose power comes in bursts typically dealing with your fourth shot, yasuo hard counters you

I fail to see an issue here. You picked jhin of all things into a dumbass super thin lane with no support to coddle you. The only adcs that can really solo lane well are lucian and vayne (as counterpicks to more immobile melees).

EvanThomas6/15/2017, 1:09:51 AM3 votes

Let's ignore the problems with the specific matchup (Jhin vs Yasuo) for a minute, mainly because nearly every other post has covered it.

I watched the replay. For the entirety of your laning phase, Yasuo only ever had one more death than you. He was the first to die in your lane, but because he has more waveclear than you, he's fine with a single death deficit. At no point during laning phase do you get a an advantage bigger than this. In fact, you die to him, making up for that one-kill deficit. He never falls behind during laning phase.

All of the stuff that went down by the end of the game: You going 5-4-6 with highest in-game damage, and Yasuo going 1-10-2, you beating him by 150 cs, happened after laning phase. He was at normal strength during laning phase, of course it's not going to feel different! NOTHING CHANGED from the usual vs Yasuo laning phase. Sorry bro, there's no room to complain here.

Avienal6/14/2017, 9:52:03 PM1 votes

{quoted}

Laning vs Yasuo feels the same whether you're winning or losing

I was playing Jhin on ranked TT. Yasuo was my lane opponent.

Yasuo contributed almost nothing to his team. He ended the game 1-10-2, with the least damage to champions. Their 5-2-4 Zac handed him his only kill (on me) on a silver platter.

In contrast, I put the team on my back. My 5/4/6 kda doesn't show it, my other stats do:

  • Doubled Yasuo's cs in the laning phase (off hand I remember 72-36 and 130-70)
    • 312 cs by game end (highest in game by 50; Yasuo had 202)
  • 48,360 damage to champions (their whole team combined did 48,409)
  • 14.8k gold (1.5k above the next player, 3k above their best).

On my main, I'm high gold. On this account, I'm Silver 3 in 3v3. I think it's fair to say I'm likely significantly more skilled than this Yasuo.

Laning ended at around the 19 minute mark, and Yasuo had 5.6k gold to my 7.1k. So, you'd expect that I had complete control of the lane, zoning him off the wave, right?

Actually, it looked like this:

https://vimeo.com/221642134

I ban yasuo every game because he retains complete control of the laning phase almost no matter how behind he falls*. It's incredibly tilting to feel like it's impossible to get a lead, no matter how well you play.

I welcome any advice on what I could do better, particularly in this game. I acknowledge this is TT, not SR, and my jungle/bot being so far behind and their Zac means I can't pressure very much. Regardless, my feeling in this game was pretty typical of my games against Yas, whether I'm winning or losing.

*In most ranged matchups, which is most of the champions I play in solo lanes

Match history link: http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2524127058/233240291

Replay link: http://www.mediafire.com/file/s4kcy2slq1dymzh/yasuo.rofl

The main issue this clearly shows is the shenigans that Yasuo has:

  1. His 'wind barrier' and 'wind wall' grants him strong anti-poking measures to let him get 2 free tickets every several seconds to deal with harass and easily back off.

  2. His Q having a 'scaling off of attack speed' means no matter what he builds, his Q is going to go down in CD every level and his natural graviation to a item of item 3086 combined with a typical item 3031 lets him get strong damage. Even if item 3087 is not too common on him as it used to be and a item 3046 was is super harass dueling tool to rush into a fight thanks to that E movement scaling bonus on how fast he 'moves' with E. This creates the capability for him to hyper spam Q and take insane control of last hitting for basically perfect CS after the first back or two in any game mode really.

  3. As a result, he has anti poking measures and scales even if he is starved on CS to be able to get 'faster' Qs. So just like how scummy Kassadin gets later into the game as he gets his super fast spamming of his R at later ranks, Yasuo Q spam gets insanely faster as 'later game' rolls in.

  4. This does not even include the constant lane harass i was seeing which is going to be a clear cut obvious against a jhin who is not much of a good pick if the enemy team can constantly pull harass on you (especially when your going to need some insane reaction to proc his 'root shot' snipe and get your opponent to constantly get stuck in high explosive damage mines.

Conclusion: Yasuo needs to get his attack speed to bonus CDR on Q to be only stuck to item attack speed, removed altogether and/or give him some fixed CD reduction per rank on Q in place of the CDR based on attack speed schmick (maybe .5 seconds considering how LOW it is currently) and likely force him to go with a squishier build to put him more at risk. On top of requiring his W and passive to have less sustainable 'defense' then what they bring (passive needing to last alot shorter for its lasting shield and passive having a damage cap on how much it can take before being broken).

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Obviously Jhin was once again 'a bad match up pick' but Yasuo can do this similar sort of shenigan to plenty of other champions and if the jhin has the ability to push up the lane then in 3vs3 thats just 'begging' for you get constantly jungle ganked by the yasuo's jungler teammate when really your team should of been making opps to gank yasuo from the back entrance and force him into a bad position.

PePsiLemoNN6/15/2017, 10:48:42 AM1 votes

Idk what I'll do if I hear ''Hasagi'' or ''Aseryo'' again lol

Knoyle6/15/2017, 1:26:59 AM1 votes

really? I thought it would have been for something like this

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2523474418/231010905?tab=overview

aqours fanboy6/15/2017, 9:53:04 AM1 votes

You chose Jhin of all ADCs in TT against Yasuo.

You poor fucking soul.

AdeBug6/14/2017, 10:35:18 PM1 votes

And certain champs like Voli, Riven, Fiora, Yi etc (prolly Yas included) can kill u while 2 levels under you, so? And skilled people can make troll builds, no keystone, etc work. Or int feed just for shutdown gold. Or come back from a negative kda. I'm just saying. Now. I can't tell if this is the case with this yas, because from what I saw in the rapid version, zac helped him quite a few times, even stayed to shove a minion wave in ur turret, after a gank that got Yas killed. Meanwhile your jg stayed for less time (cant remember if u were dead or backd) and you know every lil chunk helps.

I'm not v familiar with the map, only played it in game modes, but in general you can use Jhin's W on the minion wave as they come to you in a line, before they bundle up in threes, because the W goes through all. And as someone else said, you never used your traps to farm. And you barely pushed half way into the lane. If you think you're camped, ask your jgler to camp too. If you want vision or are afraid of ganks, invest in the TT expensive trinket and/or place trap(S) at the entrance of the jungle.

My 1.99 cents