Garen Needs a Passive Rework

brownthunder88·8/23/2015, 5:01:02 AM·6 votes·4,003 views

Garen needs more synergy between his abilities (Q,W,E, R) and his passive. His abilities feel like they are designed to go into a fight, where as his passive rewards me for staying out of a fight. The passive is called “Perseverance”, so this should mean that he will stay alive longer than anyone else, WHILE IN THE MIDDLE of the battle. This passive alone should be enough encompass what Garen is at his core, the sturdiest soldier on all of Demacia. Garen should have his passive activate when he attacks. None of his other abilities need to change. Here’s a suggestion:

Passive:_ Perseverance Each time Garen lands physical damage to an enemy champion, Garen gains one stack Perseverance for 5 seconds up to a max cap of 30 stacks Garen regenerates 5% base health regeneration per second for each stack of Perseverance At 30 stacks, Garen enters** “Demacia’s Might” **mode, for 6 seconds. During this time, Garen’s health regen is doubled and all of Garen’s damaging abilities Critically Strike. _

The max cap should be high, because it encourages players to stay in the battle longer. Every time E hits enemy champions, 1 stack of Perseverance is gained. Meaning that in the middle of a 5v5, it becomes easier to gain stacks if Garen is hitting everyone with E. This also scales well, since the number of E spins scales. This means at early levels, his health regen isn’t overwhelming, but at late game, he is really sturdy. “Demacia’s Might” should give a mix of offense and defense to match his juggernaut theme. To balance it, it would make sense to remove Q and E’s ability to critically strike by use of items, runes, or masteries. They should only be able to critically strike when a max cap of perseverance stacks are achieved.

Just to clarify 5% base health regen (or 5% hp/5)/stack 1 stack= 5% base health regen 10 stacks= 50% base health regen, same as item 1006 20 stacks= 100% base health regen,
30 stacks (**Demacia's Might **activated)= 300% base health regen This particular stat DOES NOT SCALE WITH HEALTH ITEMS. Meaning, with this reworked passive, that Full Offensive Garen and a Full Tank Garen will regen at the same rate. This will give Garen a lot more freedom in his item selection. He is not forced to buy health items to make his passive relevant.

Q does not need to change

W- does not need to change NOTE: The flat armor/resist stacking now would feel more impactful in the middle of a fight.

E does not need to change. NOTE: The cooldown refund for stopping the spin early adds a nice skill cap to this ability. This allows more finesse when gaining Perseverance stacks in battle.

R-Overall, doesn’t need to change and the “Villian” concept can still fit. But for balance, its better to remove the bonus true damage from basic attacks and E, and only have bonus true damage on the R active.

Obviously the base stats would need to scale back and the numbers would definitely need to be adjusted, but overall, this feels like Garen. What do you guys think?

EDIT: Garen regenerates 5% HP/5 per second for each stack of Perseverance INSTEAD OF Garen regenerates 0.02%/0.04%/0.06%/0.08% maximum health per second (at levels 1/6/11/16) for each stack of Perseverance EDIT 2: (for clarity) Garen regenerates 5% base health regen per second for each stack of Perseverance INSTEAD OFGaren regenerates 5% HP/5 per second for each stack of Perseverance EDIT 3: (added for clarity) Just to clarify 5% base health regen (or 5% hp/5)/stack 1 stack= 5% base health regen 10 stacks= 50% base health regen, same as item 1006 20 stacks= 100% base health regen,
30 stacks (**Demacia's Might **activated)= 300% base health regen This particular stat DOES NOT SCALE WITH HEALTH ITEMS. Meaning, with this reworked passive, that Full Offensive Garen and a Full Tank Garen will regen at the same rate. This will give Garen a lot more freedom in his item selection. He is not forced to buy health items to make his passive relevant.

47 Comments

Matezoide8/23/2015, 5:05:46 AM5 votes

But how am i supposed to feel like Wolverine if i cant sit on a brush for 5 seconds and come out back to full?

Lugg8/24/2015, 6:12:37 PM2 votes

Garen's passive is the biggest problem in his kit. He is a resourceless champion. With his passive he literally never has to back to base unless he wants to buy something. He can go in, trade, back off into a bush or under tower, and quickly regen what health he lost in the trade. So he can realistically win every trade he does. Other champions with sustain have to worry about resources while doing this, since Garen doesn't have this problem, he practically can't be poked out of lane.

fasega8/23/2015, 5:41:26 AM2 votes

The thing is his passive "perseverance" does have synergy with his juggernaut theme of always out lasting his enemies in a long grind of a fight. His passive allows him to go very aggressive were he either kills the enemy or simply waits a few seconds to recover and go aggressive again. So you either kill him or he will always grind you down you till you die or run away.

Rebonack8/23/2015, 6:12:06 AM2 votes

Innate come in three flavors. (well, four, shitty Innates that makes no sense exist KogMaw Zyra Zilean )

They either enhance the strengths of a championUdyr , shore up their weaknessesGaren , or provide them with some incentive to do things they wouldn't do otherwiseLux .

Count Buffon8/24/2015, 7:41:29 AM1 votes

Interesting thought. I would need to ponder it more though. There are always consequences I wouldn't see right away.

brownthunder888/25/2015, 3:36:38 PM1 votes

Let me know if there is anything fundamentally wrong with changing the passive to be more offensive? Instead of a free unlimitied potion.

Critmaster Garen8/23/2015, 5:04:28 AM1 votes

the problem is he needs the passive as it is.

because he gets countered pretty hard by certain champions in lane. and it acts kindof as a safetly net so youre not entirely screwed.

in the past ive also been thinking about if they couldnt turn it on its head and give him sustain when hes in a fight. but that would cause him to snowball harder in his favourable matchups where he can frequently trade, and get dumped on harder in terrible matchups.

brownthunder888/25/2015, 6:02:50 PM1 votes

Just to clarify 5% base health regen (or 5% hp/5)/stack 1 stack= 5% base health regen 10 stacks= 50% base health regen, same as item 1006 20 stacks= 100% base health regen, 30 stacks (Demacia's Might activated)= 300% base health regen This particular stat DOES NOT SCALE WITH HEALTH ITEMS. Meaning, with this reworked passive, that Full Offensive Garen and a Full Tank Garen will regen at the same rate. This will give Garen a lot more freedom in his item selection. He is not forced to buy health items to make his passive relevant.

brownthunder888/23/2015, 12:40:55 PM1 votes

Just to clarify, this not a call to nerf or buff garen. Just to get a passive change to better match his abilities.

brownthunder888/23/2015, 3:49:55 PM1 votes

The build path wouldnt even need to change. However, since the passive would stack perserverance with physical damage to enemies, buying a titanic hydraitem 3748 would work really well too. The splash from autoattacks would also stack based on number of people hit. So Garen can last even when he is not using E. May still not be optimal on him, but it could work.

brownthunder888/24/2015, 6:29:45 AM1 votes

The Garen Rework should feel like the Ryze rework, where Ryze's passive was drastically changed to give him windows of strength and his abilities were adjusted to fit the passive without changing the general mechanics of each of the abilities. Before the Ryze rework, all the balancing Ryze had undergone were only band-aids to his problems. He needed a top-down look at his passive in order to get where he is at now. Now Ryze plays a lot differently and feels so fun to play. The Ryze was neither a buffed or a nerfed, but was overall changed. He can now use his passive to help counter his weaknesses. Garen needs the same thing. It doesnt need to be as complicated as Ryze's passive, though