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Don't change the game for tank junglers, change tank junglers for the game

Malphas Marx·2/26/2015, 12:30:42 AM·4 votes·1,110 views

With all the alterations to the jungle and the lack of diversity, I've seemed to notice the primary issue with all the balance changes made to the jungle to try and bring tanks to the spotlight often seem to not only backfire, but also end up pushing them further away from the light, I mean let's look at the previous attempts.

  • quill coat: intent: make tank junglers clear faster result: spirit of the ancient golem gets bought significantly less and no one plays tanks

  • S5: jungle: intent: make jungle tougher to reduce the amount of lvl 2 gankers. result: sustain junglers are played, tanks played less

  • smite upgrade trading: intent: let players buy one upgrade then trade it out before getting the one they really want to allow junglers to sustain. result: everyone buys chilling smite at some point regardless of clear, tanks never played.

  • smite restrictions: intent: prevents abuse of chilling smite. result: the death of tank junglers

This has just been (to me at least) a massive comedy of error detailing the slow demise of something that was being forced into the spotlight where it could not possibly survive, and that sucks because there are a lot of tank junglers that I wish would get more recognition Nautilus Shen Sion but as the game stands, they just will end up gathering dust due to a lot of other junglers beating them out in power. So, instead of nerfing them to the ground and just making LeeSin the one jungler played (you won't nerf him, you don't want blood on your hands), why don't you make tank junglers either top lanners, roaming supports, or bruiser junglers, (or whatever you want. You can't balance for 10% of champions without altering the power of almost everyone else, so instead of trying to change the game for them, change them for the game, because it's clear to me right now that in the current state of them meta tank junglers simply cannot exist. So instead of making weird changes that end up making thing less diverse, why not tackle the thing you want to get better so you can face the problem directly, and make sure to be as specific as you possibly can as to not end up buffing something else that becomes toxic because of jungle buffs to them or monsters Nidalee.

11 Comments

SmokingPuffin2/26/2015, 12:59:14 AM3 votes

Good take.

All these attempts to use itemization and jungle changes to get tanks back in the game have missed the core truth. Tanks are weak. The items that would make them balanced end up making bruisers OP. We need tank buffs, not new tank items (although a Juggernaut buff wouldn't hurt).

Meddler did say they are working on tank champion buffs for 5.5, specifically mentioning Zac, Nautilus, and Nunu if I remember correctly. Maybe they've finally reallized what the problem is.

Erockandroll2/26/2015, 12:48:46 AM1 votes

You do realize that none of these changes you mentioned actually were directed at tank Junglers? (with the exception of quill coat.)

S5 items were directed to give Transparency among the different classes. Not targeted directly at tanks.

your second argument is some what false. Fast clear Junglers like J4 are favored, but the only actual sustain jungler who's meta right now is Rek'sai.

Riots decision to nerf Chilling smite was based on people abusing it. With no bearing on whether tanks use it or not. and if something is being abusive, it should be nerfed.

The problem I have with tank Junglers is I have no Idea what they are suppose to do. (definitely not fast clear. so they get out leveled by the opponent) Chain gank? Except anyone who seems to have good ability to snowball 2 or more lanes in rapid succession get labled as OP. (hi rammus)

I think we need a clear understanding on what tank Junglers do, How they do it better than Bruiser Junglers, and how we can implement that.

MakeHongKongFree2/26/2015, 12:56:47 AM1 votes

In my opinion, some tank junglers are just fine right now, maybe a few could use small buffs (Zac , Nautilus) .

I think a tank jungler's niche is to farm early game more often than ganking, and scale into the late game(I have noticed many games recently going 40+ minutes)

Most tanks are LOADED with CC (Zac Sejuani Nautilus Chogath Amumu ), and once they have enough tankiness built to make a good engage late game, their CC is the reason that a teamfight is won.

CdrRogdan2/26/2015, 1:15:29 AM1 votes

They could add bonus damage to monsters and creeps onto the juggernaut enchant, giving tanks competitive clear times. It might even be a good idea to make it damage creeps too, so they have some wave clear.

On a related note, sunfire cape interacts with gromp buff..