The reason we all play league; and a major incoming change to our game

Toddwick·Nov 7, 2019·32 votes·9,762 views

_**EDIT: To many of the comments in this post, thanks and you were right. I'm not here to be a good writer, just save our twisted treeline. I refined what you helped me realize with this new post. Please express your thoughts here: **_https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ZFAUbgv3-the-true-value-of-twisted-treeline

Each of us, no matter where you come from or how long you have been a part of this gaming experience has found something to love about this space. After match upon match of the utmost slaughter and embarrassment (whether internally or externally); you return. To fight another day. Why?

If you read in depth which of the varying forms of MMO's have been successful and why, it always boils down to finite resources and competition over them. Many sociologists & economists on synthetic worlds determined that a popular online game must have a system which allows only a small portion of players/people (1%) hold all the resources while 99% fight for the scraps and attempt to become them. If you really think about it, these core rules apply to reality as well.

Riot/Dota (or actually... the players making maps in Warcraft 3 editor) teased out something bare, simple, and beautiful here. That which we come back to, until another synthetic world does it better, or there are none left but reality itself.

I write because something has come to my attention. A core function of this game is being removed and you likely don't even know you'll miss it. That function is called Twisted Treeline (3v3). You may or may not understand why a devout few play nothing but this mode. But I can assure you, like jazz or opera you just have to be in the right conditions to experience their perfection. At 15 I poked-fun at those who listened to such music. By double that age preferred it. Understanding is often a function of time. Time which we do not have...

I heard a recent story about Yorick nerf's last year. A few players got on that twittering site and messaged one of the riot developers every single day until they buffed him back to a playable state. If something as simple as this might fix our loss-> I will gladly rinse and repeat. All of you have my time, money, creativity and energy. I need suggestions and connections. Suggestions of how we might fight this battle and recover what will be lost.

As I'm unvoiced and not connected in this community any thing you might think of will help. Another idea I had is to post on every Reddit "Main" page for every champion. Otherwise I'm all ears for youthful suggestions. I will try anything that doesn't require harassment or abusive tactics.

Whatever it takes to save something you may not know how much you could have loved.

31 Comments

R0ses R RedNov 7, 201920 votes

The purpose of your entire post is to say you want Twisted Treeline back, but you never explain why we need it back. You essentially say we need it "because reasons" and that there's no time to explain it, but that's a very apparent lie.

You may or may not understand why a devout few play nothing but this mode. But I can assure you, like jazz or opera you just have to be in the right conditions to experience their perfection... Understanding is often a function of time. Time which we do not have.

You had the time to write 4 other paragraphs if we exclude the single one where you argue why we should keep Twisted Treeline. The first 2 paragraphs that were largely irrelevant, and the last 2 paragraphs that were just you saying that you're willing to take your advocating further. It's clear you had room for why we should keep it, so it looks like you just lack any actual arguments for it.

CytheGuyNov 7, 20193 votes

I mean at this point wasting time on explaining these things would result in word vomit. People have cried out so much why it should be kept, that it is essentially common knowledge to those who care. He traded the word vomit for a well-constructed introduction, which could use some brush-up at the end to be more clear, but that's beside the point. His arguing point, ie his metaphor of relating League to jazz and opera, makes for a nice new standpoint that can be added to the multitude of different reasonings as to why TT should remain.

It's simply just high school essay-writing skills that seem to have gone right over your head combined with an attempt to make it not a cookie-cutter, thought-heavy Boards post that gets ignored because it has so many words.

R0ses R RedNov 7, 20195 votes

What part of my post makes you think I failed to understand what was written? It's because I understood what he wrote that I knew the majority of it did little to argue for Twisted Treeline. You say him explaining why we should keep Twisted Treeline would result in word vomit, but the reality is that he had both the space and time to keep words manageable. He just chose to fill it with irrelevant content instead of actual reasons.

People have cried out so much why it should be kept, that it is essentially common knowledge to those who care.

This point doesn't even make sense. If he's arguing in favor of Twisted Treeline, he's obviously not doing it to convince someone that's already convinced.

His arguing point, ie his metaphor of relating League to jazz and opera, makes for a nice new standpoint that can be added to the multitude of different reasonings as to why TT should remain.

The Jazz metaphor isn't a reason, it's the equivalent of saying "because of reasons" or "you'll understand."

TahngarthorNov 7, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=R0ses R Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6hsxHdHj,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-07T03:24:59.931+0000)

The purpose of your entire post is to say you want Twisted Treeline back, but you never explain why we need it back. You essentially say we need it "because reasons" and that there's no time to explain it, but that's a very apparent lie.

You had the time to write 4 other paragraphs if we exclude the single one where you argue why we should keep Twisted Treeline. The first 2 paragraphs that were largely irrelevant, and the last 2 paragraphs that were just you saying that you're willing to take your advocating further. It's clear you had room for why we should keep it, so it looks like you just lack any actual arguments for it.

The argument is "maybe it's not popular but why does that have to mean removal?"

R0ses R RedNov 7, 20192 votes

I don't see that argument, but I wouldn't be able to answer it if I did. Twisted Treeline probably isn't a money drain given that Riot doesn't maintain it, so I don't see the harm in letting it stay or gain in removing it. Maybe Riot is superficial enough to remove a gamemode if it means reducing menu clutter. Who knows? All that's known is they're set on removing TT and there's few reasons to keep it.

TahngarthorNov 7, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=R0ses R Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6hsxHdHj,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2019-11-07T08:05:36.296+0000)

I don't see that argument, but I wouldn't be able to answer it if I did. Twisted Treeline probably isn't a money drain given that Riot doesn't maintain it, so I don't see the harm in letting it stay or gain in removing it. Maybe Riot is superficial enough to remove a gamemode if it means reducing menu clutter. Who knows? All that's known is they're set on removing TT and there's few reasons to keep it.

The reasons to keep it are the ones that matter: There are people who play it and for them, this is the game. I may very well uninstall, and not play any of Riot's other games ever.

A company like Riot has money printing machines in their office. I can't accept the argument that they don't have the resources to maintain an allegedly dead queue or ensure the game doesn't crash when you play it.

The best argument for removing it would be to replace it with something better that fills a similar purpose- i.e. a new 3v3 map with new/better mechanics, proper support and updates, modern visuals, etc. The worst thing I'll say against TT that isn't entirely the fault of Riot neglect is the map looks dated compared to the rest of the game.

ModAcademy KaynNov 7, 20191 votes

Twisted Treeline probably isn't a money drain given that Riot doesn't maintain it

There's other costs like server cost and manpower cost from QA testers. They'd need to check and play new champions on the TT map, their interactions with things like Turrets falling, kills, champion interactions, or just normal Map testing like ensuring all options work on the map, playing it to make sure nothing too big breaks.

R0ses R RedNov 8, 20191 votes

Unless the deletion of TT causes players to quit, which it probably will for some, those server costs are going to be there regardless. Just through other game modes instead of TT. Testers are a drain though and fixing its bugs would be a drain though. Didn't think they did that.

ContempterXNov 7, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=R0ses R Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6hsxHdHj,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-07T03:24:59.931+0000)

The purpose of your entire post is to say you want Twisted Treeline back, but you never explain why we need it back. You essentially say we need it "because reasons" and that there's no time to explain it, but that's a very apparent lie.

You had the time to write 4 other paragraphs if we exclude the single one where you argue why we should keep Twisted Treeline. The first 2 paragraphs that were largely irrelevant, and the last 2 paragraphs that were just you saying that you're willing to take your advocating further. It's clear you had room for why we should keep it, so it looks like you just lack any actual arguments for it.

this.

seriously are only these kind of posts getting upvoted right now?

what kind of upvote bots are there in this board

TahngarthorNov 7, 20192 votes

{quoted}

this.

seriously are only these kind of posts getting upvoted right now?

what kind of upvote bots are there in this board

The kind of "bots" that enjoyed playing something that's being taken away from them for no good reason. A gazillion dollar company like Riot, backed by Tencent, doesn't have the resources to maintain a server queue for a game mode that "nobody" plays? I call bullshit. This is going to cost them some customers (a drop in the bucket, i know) while not freeing up a lot of resources. I work in game dev and I don't see a plausible explanation for what they're saying- The cost of upkeep on TT is nothing against the absurd amount of money they make every year.

TahngarthorNov 7, 20192 votes

{quoted}

The kind of "bots" that enjoyed playing something that's being taken away from them for no good reason. A gazillion dollar company like Riot, backed by Tencent, doesn't have the resources to maintain a server queue for a game mode that "nobody" plays? I call bullshit. This is going to cost them some customers (a drop in the bucket, i know) while not freeing up a lot of resources. I work in game dev and I don't see a plausible explanation for what they're saying- The cost of upkeep on TT is nothing against the absurd amount of money they make every year.

I mean, you can downvote me if you want, but it's true. The number of people playing it may be a drop in the bucket but so is the cost of maintaining a server to handle the small number of people playing.

Also, if riot's claims about the cost to keep something available for customs is the same as the cost of just keeping it, that tells me the y really don't have a very optimal development process. One would expect the champions, items, etc. to be built in a modular fashion, and thus if it works on one map it should work on any. They don't have to update balance or anything for something like that- people playing customs don't care much. Every game mode ever created should be available for customs tbh. As long as it doesn't crash.

The bottom line is Riot should be doing things that keep the game fun for as many players as possible, not simply what gives them the highest profit margins. But with a Chinese conglomerate (Tencent) backing you, I guess it's all roll over for China, all the time.

McCrittleNov 8, 20192 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ZFAUbgv3-the-true-value-of-twisted-treeline

ZephyrDrakeNov 7, 20196 votes

and nothing of value is lost.

TahngarthorNov 7, 20192 votes

{quoted}

and nothing of value is lost.

Perhaps not for you, but by all means tell other people not to like what you don't like.

TT filled two big voids in the game for me:

in TT, because the team size is smaller, your individual performance (and champion choice) carries more weight on the outcome of the match. When you win or when you lose, you will always be confident about whether that loss or win was your fault.
Since TT only requires three players, it's easier than SR to grab a friend or two and jump in with a full team. i.e., it is easier to pick up and play without waiting forever for more friends to show up.

ZephyrDrakeNov 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Perhaps not for you, but by all means tell other people not to like what you don't like.

TT filled two big voids in the game for me:

in TT, because the team size is smaller, your individual performance (and champion choice) carries more weight on the outcome of the match. When you win or when you lose, you will always be confident about whether that loss or win was your fault.

Since TT only requires three players, it's easier than SR to grab a friend or two and jump in with a full team. i.e., it is easier to pick up and play without waiting forever for more friends to show up.

let me repeat what i said... nothing of value was lost. If people actually cared for this mode then the mode wouldn't be removed. Very few people play this mode, very few people even care for this mode but as soon as it goes away people like you start showing up... maybe you should have done something sooner instead of waiting for riot to decide to get rid of it... specially after dominion got removed from the game.

TahngarthorNov 7, 20192 votes

{quoted}

let me repeat what i said... nothing of value was lost. If people actually cared for this mode then the mode wouldn't be removed. Very few people play this mode, very few people even care for this mode but as soon as it goes away people like you start showing up... maybe you should have done something sooner instead of waiting for riot to decide to get rid of it... specially after dominion got removed from the game.

Let me repeat what I said: You're free to not like what someone else likes, but that's just your opinion. But I'll just let the downvotes speak for themselves.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it wasn't of value to others. We are now losing a small group mode that made it easy to play with friends and not have randoms on your team. They'd better be coming up with a real replacement for it, something that is actually relevant to League of Legends, because TFT ain't it.

GDIvsNODNov 7, 20196 votes

I'm not quite seeing the connections in your examples, but I absolutely agree that TT is going to be an iconic loss, perhaps for reasons some might not see at first.

I didn't even play it THAT much, but it'll always have a spot with me for two reasons.

It was Mordekaiser's backyard in a sense to me for a while there, my first and favorite champion (and I mean old Morderkaier, not new or even intermediate one). My biggest comeback ever occurred on this map. Must have been ~2013. The enemy had the Nexus exposed and down to ~10% HP, we miiiight have had one tower down if that, my teammates were playing poorly and feeding their team early (and not speaking english) and the enemy team was saying they'd report them/feel sorry for me. I told them not to, as my team mates did nothing wrong, and... we came back and won despite my team mates giving up and trying to surrender at first. Enemy team was stunned, they just went silent (as did my slowly-not-giving-up team mates) as the one they were feeling sorry for was slowly closing in on their Nexus. That will be the one match I never forget.
The above reason is personal, but this is the real reason I think its loss will be unfortunate. This likely applies less at higher elo and more competitive play, of which I wasn't at anyway... but more than any other permanent mode, it was the only mode that let you more or less "pick whoever, and go wherever" and not get a fuss. ARAM is, well... random, and SR is more strict and expected in meta. This is why I miss NB, and why I'll miss URF (even ARURF). Standard League style on SR will likely always be the definitive way to play, and I hope that doesn't change, but these days, I often just want to pick whoever and go wherever. Nexus Blitz allowed things like (pre-update) Mordekaiser and Garen jungle, and URF allows all sorts of crazy AP builds on supports and tanks. There's far less toxicity in these modes (IME). Since none of those are going to stay, TT was the closest we had to this.

Now the sun (moon? mist?) sets and fades on it. I'll admit, if URF and/or NB were to return permanently, I would be less bothered by TT's removal.

GooberSmoocher1Nov 7, 20195 votes

This is a great post, very well thought through. I love Twisted Treeline because it is one of those game modes where you just have fun with 2 of your friends in a short, and sometimes competitive match. If Twisted Treeline was removed, I believe a big part of League would be missing, and I wouldn't have the same fun experiences I've had again. It would bring a tear to my eye to see one of the things I love vanish into the abyss...

WimbledofyNov 7, 20194 votes

What do the first two paragraphs even mean? Didn't even explain how it relates to League at all, and then didn't explain how any of that related to Twisted Treeline. I like twisted treeline and don't think it should be removed, but calling it perfection is a bit silly. And none of what you said really makes a case for why Twisted Treeline should be kept.

Hayaishi2Nov 7, 20193 votes

I think you need to work on your essay writing skills my friend.

P4ppinoNov 7, 20193 votes

So I'm not sure what you're goal is here, you want to "save" TT I presume? You're writing is very dramatic and confusing.

Either way if you feel like it's worth fighting for, then good luck, personally I couldn't care less about this dogshit mode.

Starcraft243verNov 7, 20193 votes

You forgot to add "Unpopular Opinion" to get more upvotes.

OneMustFallNov 7, 20193 votes

What a long drawn out way to say absolutely nothing of substance besides "Let's keep a mode because who knows, you might like it!".

Jennifer17Nov 7, 20192 votes

send tencent a message and tell them to fuck off. that might save our game

ŚhunpoNov 7, 20192 votes

Get used to it, if it's not LC$ approved it's getting removed or isn't permanent [slayer-jinx-wink]

ToddwickNov 7, 20191 votes

[deleted]

ToddwickNov 7, 20195 votes

Which Riot personalities could I message on Twitter?

TahngarthorNov 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Which Riot personalities could I message on Twitter?

all of them? :p

The JigSAWNov 7, 20191 votes

When I first started on here, I started with the Treeline to learn basic awareness and gank points since it has no wards and you had to be on your toes. I absolutely love the treeline, although nowadays its filled with level-up bots if you can even get a game. It'll be sorely missed, but Riot doesn't care what the small minority of us think.

TahngarthorNov 7, 20191 votes

I've talked about this many times, but you've described how I feel better than I ever could (even if there are some flaws in your writing, I'm far from an eloquent writer and have trouble getting my feelings out).

LovelleNov 8, 20191 votes

I wish there was a separate LoL client from the main one, that had all the alternative game modes. That way we could have modes like Dominion and TT without them being affected by SR/LCS. Riot has proven that they cannot handle more than one map, but there are a lot of game modes that people would play if they were available.