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The fact that 25%-30% of games are considered traps games is concerning.

Leto GT·7/24/2018, 3:01:09 PM·74 votes·21,422 views
Touching base on Mid-season (marksman and snowballing)

According to Maple, 25%-30% of games are considered traps games. Isn't it concerning?

Only a few of my games were actual traps but were ff at 20 anyway. Now, indeed 30% feels more accurate but that's something you've lead us to.

That number is so high that I find quite amusing that you're "satisfied, when according to your statistics, 30% of the current games are 90 to 100% decided by the 15 min mark. I don't find it's moving the game toward a greater state.

Obviously, now ppl find that having a regular surrender vote at ff15 makes sense. It's just statistical abuse to make us accept your end goals which is turning this game into a ff15 clown fiesta game. I wish, you would share a comparaison with past seasons, that would be interesting but you won't, because ppl will realize how much you you moved the game to a worst state.

Your breakpoints are hilarious.

Even Game - losing team has a 25%-50% chance to win Lead Game - losing team has a 10%-25% chance to win Large Lead - losing team has a 0-10% chance to win

It does mean that at 15 min mark in 8.13 :

  • 25% were decided at 90% to 100%.
  • 30% were decided at 75% to 90%.
  • 45% were decided at 75% to 50%.

In regards to these statistics, how can one refuse the regular ff15 vote? No one because it makes sense in the current state. Although, these curves have to be shifted heavily if you want use to believe that the game is not snowbally.

I remember GC saying that he wanted to implement the feeling that "you won't win and hopelessness". Don't search further, it's right there already. Does it makes me wanna play? Does it makes any one competitive wanna play? No, it pushes forward the casual mentality who doesn't care to win or not.

118 Comments

pseudo dionysius7/24/2018, 3:06:32 PM35 votes

I just want my favorite game back.

ModKnightsKemplar7/24/2018, 3:18:29 PM21 votes

It's a little high, but....

a) there's still a chance to win in those games, by Riot's own admission

b) those games have to exist in a world where solo carrying (or anything approximating that) is possible. This is the same thing that people complain about on the other side, when stomping your lane doesn't matter. Stomping your lane should matter, and when it does, trapped games are going to happen.

Don't be deceived by the name; trapped games don't happen from minute 1. They happen because one team gets outplayed, time and time again, early on. This is same thing that people have been complaining about for years. When you can't win early in this game, marksmen are mandatory because late game is mandatory. You have to have a balance between trapped games and totally even games; Riot agrees with you it has been bad, but let's not swing the pendulum too far in the other direction, please!

BALDG1VEN BOOMER7/24/2018, 3:05:18 PM17 votes

I’ve had tons of games that were decided by 15 minutes but people refused to surrender or trollvoted 4/1.

There needs to be a better system in place to stop holding people fucking hostage in lost games especially when the surrender vote is 4/1.

Worst part about it is I can’t even afk to save myself wasted time I rather have to sit there and continue to die not because I’m inting but because “Never give up! We can win! Fight every fight until the nexus dies!” Honestly disgusting garbage mentally, just fucking go next already.

warpenguin5557/24/2018, 5:23:49 PM17 votes

anything higher than 10% trap game rate is too high imo

Teridax687/25/2018, 2:09:35 AM9 votes

I was thinking of making a post exactly like this. That whole dev blog about trap games stinks. The post makes no effort to explain how comeback chance got quantified in the first place, the breakpoints are super uneven, the threshold for "even games" does not correspond to the general perception (25% chance at a comeback isn't considered "even" by most people), and, at the very end of the day, it still proves everyone's suspicions. Not only are around a quarter of all games legitimately almost impossible to win by Riot's own standards, more than half of all games aren't even close. This is, again, using Riot's very generous divisions, and I'm sure the results would be even worse if the lower limit to "even games" were set at something more reasonable, like 40% or 35%. Riot has effectively proven that League is far, far too snowbally, as the literal absolute majority of all games do not offer a sufficient chance of a comeback, and a quarter of all games are the horrific stomps that have already been talked about so much. This is terrible.

What's more, in spite of presenting us with these statistics, Riot still tries to pull the wool over our eyes. The post's grand conclusion about there being "a large increase" in more even games is directly contradicted by the statistics at hand, unless one is willing to call a ~2% difference since 8.01 "a large increase". The post also conveniently fails to mention how this compares to previous seasons, namely Season 5 and before. This omission, plus the heavily exaggerated conclusion, and suspicious distribution of data all point to a deliberate attempt to try to mislead the playerbase into believing something other than the facts, whereas the poor presentation of the stats, the complete lack of explanation behind the numbers, and the lack of awareness of what the numbers directly convey all suggests that whoever was in charge of pushing this piece of propaganda to us players themselves lacked an adequate grasp of statistics. That post is a poor attempt at lying to the playerbase under the guise of communication, and is not the first time Riot has deliberately tried to mislead us using badly handled statistics. This is exactly the kind of thing that makes players lose trust in Riot, and that gives us reason not to trust them in the future.

Phieldworker7/24/2018, 3:40:30 PM8 votes

I think because people know they can surrender at 15, whether it’s subconscious or not, they give up. A lot of games it just takes slight adjustments but usually the crazy snowball happens around 8 min so people have already decided “this is over”. I think one of the keys to a comeback is making the enemy play at your pace by not being available to kill and getting as much gold through farming as possible.

GigglesO7/24/2018, 5:01:14 PM6 votes

[{quoted}](name=wG Got2Cool,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6hhqhHkY,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-07-24T15:01:09.054+0000)

I remember GC saying that he wanted to implement the feeling that "you won't win and hopelessness". Don't search further, it's right there already.

I feel that way after one death.

I honestly wonder too, how much gold they consider to be a "lead".

woodvsmurph7/25/2018, 4:55:11 PM5 votes

Games are more snowbally, but also see YouTube vid with Blaustoise from Riot talk about soft inting. This is another reason so many games are lost by the team that's behind in laning phase; people give up and don't bother trying or playing to their full potential. Like... I know I shouldn't run out for that farm, but we're probably gonna lose anyways, so let me just die for 10cs that I could get safely if I just waited 20 sec.

I've seen firsthand how dumb it can be. Bot lane can't 2v1 an enemy support one fight and they keep dying or being completely useless sitting afk farming by tower when they KNOW the entire enemy team is on other half of map and they should be hard-shoving to get enemy tier1 bot tower, but they don't. They flame, complain, and/or be useless for forever, then you get one fight where you convince them game is winnable and all of a sudden your vayne adc decides to try and is 2v4 getting a triple kill with your help. They didn't hit any powerspikes in levels or items since the last time they died 2v1 vs the enemy support, but now they can 2v4 kill 3 enemies INCLUDING said enemy support? Obvious case of people's defeatist attitude and "soft inting" throwing away a perfectly winnable game. It happens more often than most players in low elo realize and I for one want it to stop.

ModCaptainMårvelous7/24/2018, 11:34:03 PM3 votes

I'm interested in one statistic actually:

How much are surrender and how much are games lost naturally? THIS will tell us more than anything. It would also show the mentality of the playerbase and if games are actually impossible to come back from or if it's a case of people having low morale.