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5.22 Jungle is near impossible to survive in...

Marlick·11/16/2015, 4:40:31 PM·8 votes·1,702 views

I'm a silver 1 jungle main and have been since season 3. I know that opens up people to not respect my opinion just based on ranking alone, but I feel I need to share this anyway. With 5.22 coming out I have seen a lot of negative feedback from the community, and I agree with a majority of it. There is no more champion diversity... there are several champions which have become extremely strong picks in this new developing meta (a.k.a YASUO) and if you do not pick those champions, you're almost always going to have a poor game. Now many of this negative feedback has been pointed toward the ADC changes and the AD itemization changes, but I'm here to talk about something else... the jungle.

Like I said I have been a jungle main for many years now. I do not claim to be god tier, but I am comfortable in my role and I believe that up until now I have had a meaningful impact on the games I play. In this new jungle however, I can barely survive. Last preseason I thought I would never adjust to the wide variety of changes they made, but eventually I got used to it. Now that I have played a few games in 5.22 I feel absolutely **useless. ** On many of the junglers I have tried, I can barely survive my first two camps. After going gromp and blue buff (which was a pretty general start for me), I have to go back to regen. I actually cant even make it that far without a significant amount of kiting and blowing both charges of my refillable health pots. Until I get at least one fully built life steal item (which usually isnt until 20 minutes in), I feel like I can't even clear my camps without having to recall.

That leads me to my next point. All of the items feel horribly EXPENSIVE. On junglers where I build warrior, I cannot fully complete it until almost 15 minutes into the game! That's 5 minutes away from where the game is most likely going to end based on Riot's new desired game timers. I thought that perhaps that was the result of me having a bad game, but after testing this multiple times I feel like each game I am only ending with two completed items, leaving me feeling completely lack luster throughout the game. I feel I have no impact. I spend so much time and resources trying to survive in my own jungle that I can't even bring myself to gank. Most of the time if I clear two camps in the first 10 minutes of the game, I have to either go back or go get some autos off on scuttle crab for the health regen. Everything just hurts so much more than it used to. It is impacting my ability to generate gold and it is impacting my ability to help suffering lanes. It seems all I am useful for now it putting down wards and pinging where the enemy jungler is going to show up...

Riot, please fix this atrocity that you have created in the 5.22 jungle. I feel more impactful on a support now than I do on any of my junglers.

EDIT I've been trying out more auto attack based junglers that benefit more from new items and masteries (Hello Tryndamere) and I have had no problems with them. It seems this patch may have removed a lot of champion diversity in the jungle.

28 Comments

Knellict11/16/2015, 7:36:07 PM4 votes

Totally agree. I'm a jungle main also. Jg is much harder to survive in, which sets you way back. Plus, now that almost every ADC is god and playing any lane it makes it even harder to try to gank to make up for falling behind in jg. Really glad this is just preseason but if Riot doesn't fix something you wont be seeing me S6

BluePolarizer11/16/2015, 4:46:00 PM4 votes

It's not you. Mathematically, the jungle enchants went from being near or above 100% gold efficient to 60-70% gold efficient - less gold efficient than top tier marksmen items like IE.

This means you are actually falling behind by completing any non-devourer jungle item.

Celeste Benal11/16/2015, 9:18:43 PM3 votes

Of my last last 10 games (normals and ranked combined), I've played TahmKench 3 times, Jinx once, Warwick 3 times, and MasterYi 3 times. I won all but one game with Master Yi, and that was because their Yi got insanely fed (30 kills).

Since I won 9 of those games, and 5 of 6 as a jungler in Bronze, I have no doubt that junglers most certainly can survive in the jungle. So I went to your match history to see what I could see. Of the 4 ranked games that you've played since 5.22 hit, you have had exactly zero (0) masteries selected.

Let this serve as a reminder to everyone that all your masteries got erased when the mastery trees were redone with patch 5.22. Please go back and make new selections before you go played ranked. Your team mates will (probably not) thank you. But at least you won't get rekt by someone that did remember to set them up again.

Also remember to upgrade your trinkets. Vision is OP.

Tribbles Foxfolk11/16/2015, 10:03:26 PM2 votes

Silver 5 non-jungle main here: I don't have any problems in the jungle...AT ALL. In fact, I tried KOG'MAW jungle (Fervor > Warlord's on Kog, btw) with straight AS runes and masteries for 5+ games, didn't die ONCE to a neutral creep. In fact, I usually got a FULL CLEAR (including Scuttlers because Silvers dunno how to deny heals to a squishy jungler) before I needed to back.

Yes, his clearing IS incredible for a Marksman, so take this for what you will. Guess what? Graves is supposed to be really good as a jungler now too. True, Kog'Maw can't gank very well (Red buff + lvl 6 + enemy didn't see you coming + follow-up is almost always a kill tho, his new ult rocks), but what he lacks for in ganking, he makes up for in late-game. As long as your lanes break roughly even ("Roughly even" can be, give or take, between 0 and 3 deaths in 20 minutes and between 0 and 4 kills) and help when invaded, you're golden to do fine.

Get Devourer (I recommend either Red Knife or Teal Knife, Red for fighting or Teal for vision control) > Hurricane (Teamfight and waveclear) > Greaves (I recommend Homeguards over Furor) > Shiv/PD (Shiv = more damage, but less durability in a 1-on-1, PD = less initial damage, but better durability 1-on-1) > PD/Shiv (Whichever you didn't get) > BoRK/LDR (BoRK grants more AS, but no Armor Pen. Armor Pen isn't great on Kog, admittingly, but you get LDR more for the bonus damage than the Pen.) > LDR/BoRK (Whichever you didn't get)

Start: Krugs (Always) w/good leash > Red > Grab Scuttler if possible > Blue Buff (You should have Smite for it by this point) > Scuttler if possible > Chickens (Smite shouldn't be needed) > Back to base.

Abilities: W > Q > W > E > W > R (Max W > Q > E for AS Kog'Maw)

Masteries: I use 18 / 0 / 12 (Ferocity: 5 Fury, 1 Double-Edged Sword, 5 Vampirism, 1 Oppressor, 5 Battering Blows, 1 Fervor of Battle; Cunning: Nothing; Resolve: 5 Recovery, 1 Tough Skin, 5 Veteran's Scars, 1 Perseverance)

Runes: AS Quints, AS Reds, AS Blues, AS Yellows. You can get damn close to 2.00 AS with W at level 1 (I think ~1.86 with W active?).

tl;dr: Jung isn't tougher, IMO. It's actually EASIER to me, if anything. I haven't tried many other junglers, but I'm definitely going to.

Slamurai Jack11/16/2015, 6:26:25 PM2 votes

Skip blue. Seriously just walk right past that shit and do it on your second clear. You don't need blue on your first clear and it gives the same exp and gold as all the other camps while doing way more damage and being way harder to kill. Just skip that shit. You can easily farm up 700 gold to upgrade your smite before backing if you just don't do blue. If I can do that with Kayle and Wukong, you can do it with whatever jungler you choose to play.

Kal Vas Flam11/16/2015, 7:53:29 PM2 votes

You only need 350 gold to get the secondary jungle item and you're set. You have to recall after only the first three camps, but that's enough to get you the item you need also, and then you can hang in the jungle how ever long you need to. I think they wanted to limit lvl 2 ganks or something.

lil koda11/16/2015, 10:02:19 PM1 votes

this post doesnt make any sense, they nerfed the jungle dmg and buffed our sustain plus we get a manaregen jungle item/on hit item so the jungle works for everyone i havent found one problem yet

Kuroi8611/17/2015, 12:55:09 PM1 votes

A. Jungle camps are weaker than last season, don't even try and pretend otherwise.

B. Start pots, not refillable potion, you'll regen much better, why they want junglers to use that thing is beyond me. Beyond your first clear you honestly shouldn't need pots.

C. The only frustrating aspect in the jungle currently is that gold generation is about where it was before or a little lower, but at the same time jungle items were made noticeably more expensive and it's slowing down junglers when every other aspect of the current patch points towards Riot wanting games to speed up.

JARmates11/17/2015, 6:03:12 PM1 votes

I was jungling as Lee Sin prior to this patch. I stop after reading the patch note.

Droogzy11/16/2015, 4:43:28 PM1 votes

I think it would help if you left your champion pool and the runes/masteries you use. A lot of it comes down to the latter now. I don't play ranked, but I'm pretty comfortable in these new jungles, even more so then before actually, so I'm just curious as to who you are using and what you're using for set up.

biobirbbyy11/17/2015, 9:10:16 PM1 votes

I thought Amumu is pretty good in this jungle...

1st Movement11/16/2015, 4:48:00 PM1 votes

You must not be a jungle main Since the new items actually helps more with jg sustain and clear You should be asking yourself are u even ganking?

WindOfVengeance11/16/2015, 4:58:22 PM1 votes

I am just too fucking lazy to read all this, but I will give you some advises

  • Get machete on every champion (except for Fiddlesticks )
  • Go back after you take 2 camps (unless you are playing Rengar ) or someone with good sustain ((Aatrox Udyr Fiddlesticks etc.)
  • Get that mini baron thing with your top laner if you manage to kill theirs or take their top tower
  • Make sure that you are using right masteries for each champion (you might think that this is bullshit but trust me, if you fuck up those keystone masteries it might cost you that match)

Those were some shitty tips, but they should help you out a little bit. Keep in mind that this is only the "pre-season" so a lot of stuff is probably going to get changed in season 6. Good luck mate

BMFB11/16/2015, 7:11:05 PM1 votes

surviving is easy, my challenge is there's this lag in leveling for me. Around level 4 I drop seemingly 2-4 levels behind others. It kinda happens when I clear say the bottom half jungle, gank, clear half top, back, finish clearing top, gank top , go mid, maybe grab scuttle, and boom, mid is 2-4 levels higher than me, depending on how its been going. I seem to always catch up around 10-12, but it sucks because during that time, im kinda useless and with no ult it kinda sucks (rammus main)

Andrionar11/16/2015, 7:48:46 PM1 votes

Making items more expensive was a smart and balanced choise by RIOT. Becouse game has became more snowbally with more kills potential and more gold income every second. As a jungler you are having an easer time to gank lanes earler, comparing with season 5. By that you gonna make more gold from kills, assists and tax for a succesful gank.

And talking about survivability in the jungle. I can make a full clear with master yi, starting by crugs make a full clear with shaco and even with rengar, if I'm using empowered w instead of q.

ChaosThief11/16/2015, 8:52:10 PM1 votes

Refillable potion is currently the biggest noob trap for junglers. It heals you for LESS THAN HALF of the 3 hp pots you could have gotten:

450 (3 pots), 200 (refill pot)