The fact that we're going back to 1 rework : 1 new champion release makes me sad.

XIII Vanitas·12/17/2018, 2:53:00 AM·19 votes·9,016 views

There's still a multitude of old champions who

are toxic for the game when too strong
have been completely power-creeped out of the meta
or are simply way too straightforward and dull

They all could use either a gameplay update or a full VGU, but the new Riot policy is going to increase their permanence on the waiting list for years.

To be honest, I feel like I'm not the only one who'd rather have a full roster of viable champions than a mutilated one with an absurdly high amount of characters (we've already hit #142!), so I really can't make sense of Riot's decision.

49 Comments

ModCaptainMårvelous12/17/2018, 3:26:32 AM14 votes

have been completely power-creeped out of the meta

Wait what?

Like half of the champions listed still work fine. Blitzcrank is fine. Morde still sees play by his dedicated cult (and successful play at that). Noc and Skarner are still good at least in pro play and Fiddle will always be good if he has a point-and-click CC.

or are simply way too straightforward and dull

Also every champ listed here would have pitchforks and torches if Riot tried to update them, regardless of how they need it.

DuskDaUmbreon12/17/2018, 3:17:11 AM14 votes

Your entire second list could have fit in the first one, tbh.

Fiddle wasn't even power-creeped out of meta. He was straight-up nerfed due to being fucking OP as a support.

Z3Sleeper12/17/2018, 3:44:49 AM11 votes

You can pretty much file every one of those under "toxic for the game when too strong".

Noor Sakata12/17/2018, 4:04:05 AM6 votes

Fiddle has always been a strong pick thought , because of a point click fear and aoe silence , honestly I would have perma banned him if he was popular

MissMikasa12/17/2018, 3:31:55 AM5 votes

The straightforward ones are the best champs. They don't need major hauls.

Especially my Annie, and my Kennen. I've already had my Galio destroyed, I don't want them to find the same fate.

INoble KnightI12/17/2018, 10:04:26 AM5 votes

I think Rammus is fine to be honest.

Jerry SeinfeId12/17/2018, 5:25:29 PM3 votes

Fiddledicks finds plenty of play and i've seen him go every lane aside from the legendary crittlesticks which i have yet to spot in one of my games.

blitz is always gonna be good in soloqueue, his Q is the most soloqueue ability in the game.

or are simply way too straightforward and dull

"I don't like these champions so noone likes these champions"

Amumu is actually more fitting for the above row as his purely tank build doesn't bring the heavy CC when compared to more modern champs, high elo mains play full ap or ap bruiser right now. Which i think is fine, his tank build could use some love to be more viable but i've always prefered his bruiser playstyle.

Annie Isn't overbearing and still finds play across all elo. She's a god in low elo as she's easy to pick up and a pubstomper, but she still holds up in higher elo.

Garen has gotten so many small changes he pretty much has a GU on the level of ezreal. He's still simple but now has some forms of skill expression. And even then there's more to the game than being able to play your champ. He still offers a certain powerfantasy that's fun to certain people, me included.

Rammus has to be reverted, the channel on his powerball is obnoxious as hell. He's also everything but dull, i know jhin has been spoiled alot by riot but he's the OG "The Fast".

Teemo are you trying to pick a fight? don't you dare touch my boi. I believe number changes could allow him to function as a real AP marksman bot, those same changes would probably give every toplaner a heartattack tho.

not everything has to do 15 things with one ability you know.

Rathar Dashing12/17/2018, 7:47:25 AM2 votes

It's important that the game has straightforward champions, they make it much easier for new players to pick up and learn the game.

Jinxalot12/17/2018, 3:04:04 AM2 votes

All I saw Teemo

Dr Dog12/17/2018, 2:38:44 PM2 votes

toxic when strong, no trynda or yi? i dont remember a time they were even meta with EVERYONE hating them because they embody most things wrong with a champion

Wind23412/17/2018, 10:53:00 AM2 votes

From your list, I half agree, half disagree with who's on it. I don't think it's bad to have simple or straightforward champions - in fact, they're kinda necessary. You can't expect someone new to the game to pick up someone like Yasuo or LeBlanc and feel comfortable using them. Plus, some people just enjoy simpler champions, myself included.

But as to the rate of new champs to new reworks, I think Riot's got a good system going on with them having several teams working on different projects at once. In all honesty, I can't say I have a preference, so long as a rework or new champ is done right. For reworks, they should solve issues that were present in the first iteration's kit while also expanding the character and making them more fleshed out in terms of personality and lore. For new champions, they should do something new and/or interesting, either in their kit, their theme or their playstyle, and their character should be an interesting addition to the lore. I'd equally love to see a rework of an older champ like Malphite or the angel sisters as much as I'd love to see a new champion covering some new ground. Heck, I'd even love to see new champions tackling older themes in new ways, like for example having a wind mage who focuses more on the "raging storm" offensive power as opposed to Janna's healing, protective wind spirit theme.

So I think that, so long as the designs are good and well thought out, I'm fine with whatever the next new releases are.

hhaavviikk12/17/2018, 12:35:14 PM2 votes

how did you miss tryndamere, the champion who's so incredibly boring and frustrating to play against and relies entirely on RNG to win or lose

SwiftKitten8812/17/2018, 5:13:57 AM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=XIII Vanitas,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6AQk7T9m,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-17T02:53:00.480+0000)

There's still a multitude of old champions who

are toxic for the game when too strong

Shaco is toxic not matter what his winrate is, same with TahmKench

have been completely power-creeped out of the meta

Nocturne ???? i think u misclicked the wrong one, and fiddle is also a pick that has seen a pretty significant rise in polarity

or are simply way too straightforward and dull obvoiusly...

but i i dont think i agree with any of the others on that list

although i would certainly add Udyr to that., and i know Volibear is already on the list above he belong here too

They all could use either a gameplay update or a full VGU, but the new Riot policy is going to increase their permanence on the waiting list for years.

To be honest, I feel like I'm not the only one who'd rather have a full roster of viable champions than a mutilated one with an absurdly high amount of characters (we've already hit #142!), so I really can't make sense of Riot's decision.

i disagree... riot has plenty of well designed well balanced champs.

there are current about 5of them they need SEVERE nerfs about 10 more than need nerfs

and about 10-20 more that need complete redesigns or other massive changes to their kit that would require a full scale rework

but MOST of the champions... slightly over 100

are perfectly fine where they are

chipndip112/17/2018, 7:17:57 PM1 votes

All I want is for people to stop their bellyaching.

If we go to releasing more new champs, people better not start posting about wanting old ones reworked, especially after everyone started dogging on the reworks we recently received.

You guys always manage to unite for the stupidest crap, then you start talking about how you have different opinions when the logic ceases to be there. Do you want older champs to be brought up to par or do you want older champs to stay as legacy picks from earlier years of the game? Pick a direction and at least TRY to stay consistent.

Exentrick12/17/2018, 7:34:54 PM1 votes

If you think Teemo Teemo is straight forward and dull you don't know Teemo. Yes fairly simple, but dull does not fit. You have a shallow understanding of what he can do.

Teemo is a near perfect "quick to pick up, long time to master" between optimally using his passive, blind, mobility, and especially his mushrooms.

THE RlVER KlNG12/17/2018, 4:02:41 AM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=XIII Vanitas,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6AQk7T9m,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-17T02:53:00.480+0000)

have been completely power-creeped out of the meta

volibear is literally the only champion on that list that this applies to. corki isn't weak per se just not a strong mid laner.

blitzcrank has been consistently in the top 3 supports for like 2 years now. skarner and nocturne are both viable junglers. fiddlesticks is still very strong bot lane. mordekaiser and mundo are viable in their roles.

Moonscourge12/17/2018, 5:31:55 AM1 votes

They have multiple things in the works at once, so I don't see the problem. Reworks are coming, partly or full VGUs and their cadence isn't going up or down with other releases either. They're being worked on when they're being worked on.

Baby Ghoul12/17/2018, 5:41:33 AM1 votes

Nobody wants Blitzcrank to be at the top of the meta again. He's one of the few champions I don't miss seeing.

GreenKnight12/17/2018, 10:56:02 AM1 votes

I would rather have broken new champs, than old ones being removed.

SanKakU12/17/2018, 11:22:54 AM1 votes

I like these champions and we've been getting too many reworks as it is. I'd rather us get 2 or 3 new champions before a rework honestly.

Also, Rammus was already reworked as was Shyvana(although her rework was smaller than his). Annie was too quite some time ago and she's in a very good place at the moment. I don't really think that Rammus is okay, but some balance changes(maybe add in some attack speed or AD scaling to his passive and his taunt, maybe increase taunt attack speed bonus and/or duration based on his bonus AD) and/or item changes could easily fix that. I think the reworked kit he has is fine functionally. He just needs some balance love like so many other tanks such as Zac(who could use some tank scaling and reduction in crowd control durations) and Malphite(he needs some AD scaling back IMO, maybe put it on his Q so AD items have a wee bit more impact on him) and maybe the enchanting supports could get some similar love if they are struggling to stay relevant. We could get MR/armor scaling with their shields instead of just AP since it's a defensive ability and that would open up a lot of room for shield power to feel satisfying to players as well as make defensive stats feel more rewarding than they do now.

Fiddlesticks, Kassadin, Teemo, Mundo, Amumu, and others seem fine to me I don't get what the problem is. We need champs like those.

Edit: I'm so used to complaining about Sejuani needing a revert that I accidentally called Shyvana 'Sejuani' instead. I read over my message like, "What am I typing here? Sejuani's rework was not smaller than Rammus' rework!"

The23rdGamer12/17/2018, 2:17:02 PM1 votes

Not sure I agree with the meat of your post but the title I at least agree with to some extent.

I feel like a lot of champions have been decently brought up to current standards ( DrMundo and several others just got new VFX!) if you believe that champions like Mundo still fit well gameplay-wise. Heck, Mundo had his R buffed and for a few patches in early Season 8 he was literally unkillable.

I'll admit there's still some work to do ( Skarner , Mordekaiser , Corki , etc.) but I feel like the champions that were glaringly outdated (Old Nunu, for example) have been fixed up pretty well.

Spârky12/17/2018, 3:25:33 PM1 votes

Random thought. I dont know about you guys but I personally would love riot to tackle the champions that give them issues balancing (like the kalistas and azirs.) and a few of the champions that when strong are always a huge issue (new irelia, vlad). I'd rather them tackle the toxic/hard to balance champions and rework them or maybe just rework a spell or two (think lissandra) than rush to update the older champs. I think that's just my personal preference though but I am curious how many people think the same way.

the weeaboo12/17/2018, 3:44:37 PM1 votes

Lol. The past couple reworks have been nightmares to balance, or at least some of the most anti-fun. Akali Aatrox Irelia . At this point I’m thinking more reworks will equal more problems rather than less.

Critmaster Garen12/17/2018, 4:06:32 PM1 votes

your face is dull.

while garens villainy passive needs some work, hes still a fun champion to play.

Chembaron Yamada12/17/2018, 5:16:33 PM1 votes

I enjoy reworks, but I still want them to provide new champions. There are still tons of champion archetypes left which I want to see in the game, especially more champions from Piltover. So a little more new champions translates to a little higher chance for new Pilties, this is fine for me. An even split between these 2 seems fair.

Power Cosmic12/17/2018, 5:24:08 PM1 votes

It hurts the company to change things people identify with. Therefore, change for the sake of change is a net loss. Over 20 million people have been following LoL for more than 3 years. To turn those fans away when you aren't growing is bad business. Out of all the champs you listed Vlad is exceptionally hard to gank and also LeBlanc is extremely hard to kill; the rest should just fluctuate with the meta.

Not all champs but all roles should be viable for every meta.

Kairoptra12/17/2018, 7:10:23 PM1 votes

Over the course of the past year, the ratio of champions to reworks has been 4:5 (4:6 if you include Ezreal). The year before, it was 5:4. They’ve clearly been keeping their promise to shift more toward reworks than new champions. The last champion release before Neeko was Pyke, and that was back in May. Between the two, three reworks were released (4 if you include Ezreal). New champs are becoming a rarity nowadays, making complaints like this unnecessary, especially with the first true double rework just around the corner with Kayle and Morgana.