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[Diamond Design] How Many Decisions Do You Really Have?

Joushi·1/5/2015, 1:20:55 AM·66 votes·7,917 views

Hey Happy New Year's everyone!

Welcome to the first installment of a series I hope becomes a regular part of the new boards, currently titled "Diamond Design" (subject to change). In this series I'll be taking what I believe to be important concepts regarding designs in League of Legends, primarily about champions, and expanding on them, describing what makes them worth paying attention to. I'll be pulling topics and arguments from things I've read (Riot and otherwise), things I've done, and of course arguments that you the reader make or bring to my attention. So let's get this started!

http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws.com/images/news/August_2014/GAN/dg-ss.jpg

#How Many Abilities Do You Really Have?

I know what you must be thinking. “Obviously, apart from the obvious exceptions (here’s looking at you, transform champs!) champs all have four abilities!” And you know what, you’d be right! Good job everyone, discussion’s over. We can all go home.

Just kidding, what we’re more interested in than the number of abilities you have, is the number of real choices you have when using those abilities. There are a couple important things we need to define here so we're all on the same page. The first being, what constitutes having a choice?

We’ll start by defining what isn’t a meaningful choice on your basic QWER, and give a couple examples of each.

  • Passive stats
  • Ryze getting 2/4/6/8/10% cooldown reduction on his Q (Overload)
  • Teemo getting magic damage and DoT on his E (Toxic Shot)
  • Negligible cost undodgeable abilities
  • Evelynn’s Q (Hate Spikes)
  • Zac’s W (Unstable Matter)
  • Autoattack resets
  • Jax W (Empower)
  • Darius W (Crippling Strike)

Now why aren’t these choices? Because there’s no meaningful decision you make when you use them, if you even use them at all, they are simply part of a larger decision or there is a strictly best way in which to use them such that not doing them in a given way is actually playing suboptimally.

The second and third sets do have the argument that you have to manage mana/energy when you use them, but I’d argue that is part of a larger decision on resource management. Generally speaking, these abilities follow the logic “If there is an enemy it can be used on and it is off cooldown, I will use it.” Go watch a streamer play Evelynn, watch how much he spams his Q button in a teamfight, or when clearing a camp. That’s not a real decision.

We’re interested in whether an ability presents an interesting decision every time that you use it, or at least as often as not.

This also means that abilities that are simply used as part of a single larger decision are not decisions on their own. An example of this is using Karthus' E (Defile) when going all-in and toggling it off when you disengage. Using E isn't a meaningful decision in itself, it is simply something you do as a result of making another larger decision.

We also won’t be discussing choices that are available to differing degrees in all champions. All champions have access to basic decisions like movement, autoattacking, fighting and disengaging, recalling, and summoner spells. We will be focusing on decisions that are unique to the player when playing a specific champion.

#So What Counts?

So what kinds of abilities qualify as presenting interesting decisions?

http://i.imgur.com/T2yeeZm.png

Skillshots

By their very nature, all skillshots provide a situation where you (and your opponent) have to make a decision, as you have to decide where to aim. Will my opponent dodge? Which way will they dodge? Is there something in the way that I need to kill before I throw it? The answer you come up with to these questions represents a decision where there might not be a best answer at the time you do it.

http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws.com/images/news/September_2013/JLCR/Jinx_Comic_thumb.jpg

Tradeoff Stats

This is a bit of an odd concept, most clearly represented by Jinx’s Q (Switcheroo). In each of the two states, between which you can freely alternate, you have different stats. The minigun gives you more attack speed, but the rocket launcher has more damage and range, but at the same time costs mana. Other examples of this include Aatrox’s W (Blood Thirst/Blood Price), Master Yi’s E (Wuju Style), and all transform champions (excluding Gnar, damn yordles). These are all theoretically interesting decisions, as which stance you are in presents clear tradeoffs depending upon which you choose.

Things that this category does NOT include are stats that you simply “turn on” with no significant repercussions. Irelia’s W (Hiten Style) simply gives you more damage at what is effectively no cost. Rammus’ E (Defensive Ball Curl) and Kog’maw’s W (Bioarcane barrage). This category of free stats is actually one of the largest subtypes of abilities, see if you can find them all!

http://i.imgur.com/3NNOEXO.png

Self Movement Abilities

Many abilities involve moving yourself to a new location. These usually present interesting decisions, especially when you don’t need to jump to a specific target. Think about when you see the ADC dash in, using their escape to try and do a little more damage. (Ezreal E (Arcane Shift), Graves E (Quickdraw), Tristana W (Rocket Jump), Corki W (Valkyrie), etc.) They now have increased vulnerability. Initiators jumping in, in order to start a fight, put themselves in the middle of the enemy team, hoping they don’t die too quickly. Should I use my dash to dodge that skillshot? Should I try and close the gap? Should I save it so that I have it in a couple of seconds when I really need it?

http://i.imgur.com/qQifiV6.jpg?1

Crowd Control

Especially hard crowd control. It presents an important decision every time, should I use my stun to stop the assassin from killing my ADC? Or is it more important that I use it to make sure that their mid laner dies?

http://i.imgur.com/AbhNefN.jpg?1

Terrain Creation

Ah yes. Jarvan trapping his team with his Cataclysm. Anivia walling off the enemy team behind her Ice Wall, letting you all escape. Trundle completely blocking off a corridor with his Pillar of Ice, cornering a target. These abilities are iconic of their characters because of how important the decisions revolving them are. Whether or not the new terrain is placed correctly is so incredibly important that every creation of terrain is its own decision.

http://i.imgur.com/aI6BBXA.png

Conditional Abilities

These abilities are important decisions because they do different things based on how, when, or to whom they are done. Does Irelia’s E (Equilibrium Strike) stun them or merely slow? Did Poppy’s Heroic Charge stun her target? Is it better to shield my ally or do damage to the enemy with Pix?

http://i.imgur.com/RdUd9U5.png

Significant Cost Abilities

This is the most obvious one, but I chose to leave it for last so I could get other points out of the way. Significant cost abilities use up a lot of mana, or have exceptionally long cooldowns. Blitzcrank’s Q (Rocket Grab) uses up half of his mana at level one, making it important not to use it idly. Karthus’ R (Requiem) and Shen’s R (Stand United) have cooldowns that are three minutes long when you first hit level six. Summoner spells like flash, teleport, and heal have cooldowns even longer than that. These are important decisions because using them now means you can’t use them later, limiting your options when you might need them.

The last important note about abilities being real decisions before I move on to the rest of the discussion is comboing of abilities. Many abilities, such as Jarvan IV’s E/Q (Flag & Drag), Alistar’s W/Q (Headbutt/Pulverize), Orianna’s Q/W (Command Attack/Dissonance) and others, are often effectively one decision. While there are definitely instances where you might want to perform one without the other, in general it is better to simply use them together at the same time and I will often refer to these abilities as “half choices” because of this.

#Alright, So What?

This question came up as many often do, a bunch of friends and I were sitting around a room talking about what makes champions good and bad, and what exactly made them that way. An important argument that I would often make is that a champion is not necessarily “good” or “bad”, but rather was ”broken”. This lead to an examination of characters that fit into these categories of the good, the bad, and the ugly. Err… broken.

What these characters had in common is that they either had significantly more or significantly fewer decisions in their abilities than other characters did, and this made it harder to balance the abilities so that they were balanced and still felt rewarding.

The problem with having too few decisions to make is that every decision you make is an interaction point between you and your opponent, and an opportunity for one of you to outplay the other. With fewer decisions, it is usually possible for one player to find abuse cases within their abilities and dominate the game. On the other hand, when there aren’t effective abuse cases, these characters tend to be underwhelming, because they don’t have opportunities to make plays.

Let’s take a look at a couple offenders of this.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/img/champion/splash/Warwick_0.jpg

Warwick

Wow, who would have thought that a champion from beta would have a simple kit with relatively few interaction points? Oh, everyone.

  • Q – Hungering Strike: Takes a bite out of an enemy unit and heals Warwick. Target an enemy, deal damage, heal yourself. Low mana cost outside of laning phase and a low cooldown means you should usually be using this as often as possible. Not really a decision.
  • W – Hunters Call: Warwick lets out a howl, increasing all nearby friendly champions' Attack Speed for a short time. You mean I get free stats for me and all my friends? At half the cost of my other damage ability? There is no reason not to use this whenever you’re fighting.
  • E – Blood Scent: Warwick passively senses weakened enemy champions around him. The scent of blood sends him into a fury, causing him to move at incredible speeds. This one, since it is a toggle, has a minor decision involved. Stealth vs speed. We’ll call it a minor decision.
  • R – Infinite Duress: Warwick lunges at an enemy champion, suppressing his target and dealing magic damage for a few seconds. This is Warwick’s iconic ability and only decision that is always important to make. Target selection is of huge importance, and the complete control of the enemy character makes this his biggest decision.

So let’s look at this. Warwick really only has one important interaction with other players where he can make a choice. We’ve seen Warwick become very strong recently, because his stats have been favorable, and his stats are often enough to overcome the lack of play in his kit. The smite-ultimate combo that was very popular in Patch 4.20 really had almost no interaction between Warwick and his target, and when he does enough damage to just kill a target, Warwick will be strong.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/img/champion/splash/XinZhao_0.jpg

Xin Zhao

Does anybody remember Xin Zhao upon release? I don’t, I wasn’t playing at the time. I’m told it was absolutely awful, and videos definitely seem to confirm that sentiment. Let’s take a look at his current kit and see why he could be such a problematic champion.

  • Q – Three Talon Strike: Xin Zhao's next 3 standard attacks deal increased damage that reduce his other ability cooldowns, with the third attack knocking an opponent into the air. While the third attack does present some decision making, as the target you select could be important in context, there’s almost no reason not to just use this as often as you can.
  • W – Battle Cry: Xin Zhao passively heals every 3 attacks and can activate this ability to attack faster. Again, this one is even less of a decision. Why would you ever not use the free stats given to you?
  • E – Audacious Charge: Xin Zhao charges an enemy, dealing damage and slowing all enemies in the area. This one starts to present more decision making than the other two abilities so far. The self-movement allows you to dodge or to keep up with enemies, or even escape in the right conditions. The interplay with his passive also determines who is gonna stick around when he uses his ultimate.
  • R – Crescent Sweep: Xin Zhao deals damage to nearby enemies based on their current Health and knocks non-challenged targets back. Xin Zhao gains bonus Armor and Magic Resist based on number of champions hit. This is again, Xin Zhao’s most iconic decision to make. It can be used in ways that are aggressive and defensive, scattering enemies in all directions, but keeping the primary target isolated.

At least Xin Zhao is better than Warwick, but that really isn’t saying much as Warwick has a decision and a half. Xin Zhao at least has two whole decisions. Also similar to Warwick, we have seen times when Xin Zhao is absolutely dominant in the meta as a frontline diver, or an insane damage dealer coming from the Feral Flare, but apart from his times when he is dominating he tends to be hiding in the shadows, pretending to be relevant.

So we’ve looked at champions that have too few decisions, next we’ll have to look at champions who have a lot of decisions. As mentioned before, every decision you have is an opportunity to outplay your opponent. Similarly, every decision has at least two options available, and options are power. By giving players access to more options, it gives the champion more opportunities to outplay their opponent both offensively and defensively.

While there are a lot more points of interaction when characters have more abilities, and therefore opportunities to outplay your opponent, or mess up, when your opponent doesn’t have access to as many options can feel frustrated at their lack of ability to respond.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/img/champion/splash/Riven_0.jpg

Riven

  • Q – Broken Wings: Riven lashes out in a series of strikes. This ability can be reactivated three times in a short time frame with the third hit knocking back nearby enemies. On her first ability, Riven already has three movement abilities which can be used to dodge or close a gap, the third one providing crowd control and the option to hop over terrain, the only resource being used being the cooldown. There are already three potential decisions on her first ability, that’s as many as the previous two discussed characters already!
  • W – Ki Burst: Riven emits a Ki Burst, damaging and stunning nearby enemies. Probably the least interactive of her abilities, simply doing damage and a brief stun directly around her. However, due to the nature of crowd control, it at least still qualifies as a decision.
  • E – Valor: Riven steps forward a short distance and blocks incoming damage. The movement of the ability as well of the shield again ensures that this will remain an important decision when you use it.
  • R – Blade of the Exile: Riven empowers her keepsake weapon with energy, and gains Attack Damage and Range. During this time, she also gains the ability to use Wind Slash, a powerful ranged attack, once. While the first activation isn’t really an important decision, since Riven just gains free stats when she wants to fight to the death, but the second activation, which is a skillshot and execution has enough considerations to remain an important decision.

There’s a reason Riven is such a popular character, whether you love her or hate her. She has so many options available, and everyone has seen plenty of situations where Riven will massively outplay another player, because she has 6 important decisions, twice as many as Xin Zhao and Warwick combined.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/img/champion/splash/LeeSin_0.jpg

Lee Sin

When Riot talks about playmaking champions, Lee Sin is usually one of the main ones pointed to, and for good reasons. He has so many decisions to make, so let’s take a look at them. Due to the nature of his abilities this section will have to be formatted differently than the rest.

  • Q – Sonic Wave / Resonating Strike:
  • Sonic Wave: Lee Sin projects a discordant wave of sound to locate his enemies, dealing physical damage to the first enemy it encounters. If Sonic Wave hits, Lee Sin can cast Resonating Strike for the next 3 seconds. Skillshot damage. Easily one decision on its own.
  • Resonating Strike: Lee Sin dashes to the enemy hit by Sonic Wave, dealing physical damage plus 8% of their missing Health. Now this is what separates this ability from so many others and makes it actually two decisions total. Now, Lee Sin gets to decide if he wants to go in, moving himself into the enemy and either dodging or starting a fight.
  • W – Safeguard / Iron Will:
  • Safeguard: Lee Sin rushes towards a target ally, shielding himself from damage. If the ally is a champion, they are also shielded. After using Safeguard, Lee Sin can cast Iron Will for the next 3 seconds. While this is all one decision, there’s actually a number of considerations here as well, due to how it changes when depending on how it’s used. Do you need the shield? Will the lower cooldown really matter or do you just need to get over this wall right now?
  • Iron Will: Lee Sin's intense training allows him to thrive in battle. For 5 seconds, Lee Sin gains Life Steal and Spell Vamp. This one really isn’t much of a decision, because it’s just free stats again.
  • E – Tempest / Cripple:
  • Tempest: Lee Sin smashes the ground, sending out a shockwave that deals magic damage and reveals enemy units hit. If Tempest hits an enemy, Lee Sin can cast cripple for the next 3 seconds. This whole ability is mostly just one decision, whether or not you need the slow. The damage is good, but it’s rarely the reason it’s used.
  • Cripple: Lee Sin cripples nearby enemies revealed by Tempest, reducing their Movement Speed for 4 seconds. Movement Speed recovers gradually over the duration. Again, this is the reason this ability is used, and as a whole this ability is mostly one decision.
  • R – Dragon’s Rage: Lee Sin performs a powerful roundhouse kick launching his target back, dealing physical damage to the target and any enemies they collide with. Enemies the target collides with are knocked into the air for a short duration. This technique was taught to him by Jesse Perring, although Lee Sin does not kick players off the map. First off, that’s actually on Riot’s info page for Lee Sin. Go check it out if you don’t believe me. Secondly, while using it is only one decision, the number of ways this ability can be used, into the enemy team, into your own team, to disengage a fight, makes this an incredibly high impact decision.

Altogether, Lee Sin easily has 5 important decisions to make in his kit alone. This is again, not only more than the examples that have few abilities, but more than the supposed number of abilities you have. With how much stats the character has, no wonder Lee Sin has been a staple of the competitive scene since his release.

From the examples we’ve seen, the number of decisions characters have can be really important in terms of trying to balance them. Too many decisions and you end up with characters that will remain viable in almost all metas, like Lee Sin and Orianna. Too few decisions and you end up with characters that will either be overpowered or really weak, like Warwick and pre-rework Sion.

While neither extreme is necessarily better than the other, it is important to keep in mind when designing or reworking champions at how much unique agency you give to the player when playing that champion. Similarly, the number of decisions you have available will draw different kinds of players. Someone who just dives onto the enemy carries doesn’t necessarily need as many decisions for the player to make, as it will usually end up with one of the two characters dying. An assassin on the other hand needs a lot of options available to them so that they can jump in, do their dirty deed, and jump right back out unscathed.

From an esports perspective, it’s also important to give options to players, as every interaction point is a place for one person to outplay their opponent. Characters like Zed, Lee Sin, and Ezreal, regardless of whether you think they are weak or strong, are interesting to watch because there are so many opportunities for them to display skill.

Of course, I didn’t talk about everything abilities can do here. Ally buffs and enemy debuffs, Invulnerability, Invisibility, and Waveclear are all examples of things abilities can do which I didn’t mention. Do you think they count as making something an important decision?

Wow you read the entire thing! And if you just scrolled down a tl;dr, shame on you. Go back and read it, I worked hard on creating something I thought you would enjoy and you’ve made me a sad panda.

Quick shoutout to dialMARK4acti0n’s Facts, Myths and Theories series, as a great read and one of the inspirations I had for starting my own series! Go check him out if you like lore.

Let me know what you thought about the article and whether or not you think I should write more of them, and if you have ideas as to what I should write about, leave ‘em below!

71 Comments

VDc0zCqe0w1/5/2015, 2:08:48 AM19 votes

what you're saying is quite cool and all but this thing is just not true:

"From an esports perspective, it’s also important to give options to players, as every interaction point is a place for one person to outplay their opponent. Characters like Zed, Lee Sin, and Ezreal, regardless of whether you think they are weak or strong, are interesting to watch because there are so many opportunities for them to display skill."

Yes they are interesting, but when you see an Insec for the 56th time in LCS, it just gets boring, when you see a good Thresh hook for the 123th time, it gets boring

imagine a really good song, a song you love: you put it on the stereo, you listen to that 1 time, 2 times, 3 times, 4 times, then you'll just start to hate it

People lost their shit when diamond brought on the Seju jungler: Sejuani is not a big playmaking champion, nor it's that funny to watch (compared to Zed), but she was unexpected, and that alone made her really fun to watch

Ashes Arise1/5/2015, 4:01:32 PM10 votes

I would like to argue that having more choices isn't inherently harder, nor is having less choices easier. Having more choices, allows you to do more things effectively. if you have a bunch of choices, you can choose the most effective way to get something done. You can make choices that other people don't even have the option of making. On the other hand, if you have minimal choices. You have to be damn sure that you make the choice correctly. You don't have the luxury of changing the way you approach a different situation. You have to take what you have, and make it work.

I don't believe that Warwick or Xin Zhao are easier champions than Riven unless you account for her animation canceling tricks, which I find to be borderline cheating anyway. Once you begin to play these "harder" champions, the way they work becomes second nature. The difficulty of pulling off certain combos and what not is attached to muscle memory. Its hard to be impressed by Lee Sin "plays" when his kit allows for those "plays" to occur so easily and frequently. What is impressive is to see a play from an angle you didn't even see coming. Everyone expects a Lee Sin to ward jump over a wall and then kick someone into their team. That's just what Lee Sin does. What is impressive is an Anivia putting a wall in between a Zed and his target the moment he appears from his ult, and then she Qs where his shadow is and detonates it as he zips back to it. If something like that happened in LCS, everyone would be flipping out.

2pudge1cup1/5/2015, 4:53:43 AM6 votes

DBC is actually Rammus' W.

And it does have quite a bit of thought behind it considering that 1) you can't use Q while it's active and 2) if you use it you can easily draw enemy turret aggro even with minions around considering you auto-reflect damage from attacks. Cho's E follows a similar logic pattern to the 2nd point. I turn that thing off in tower range all the time.

And for the later part of the article it seems deceitful. Riven has 3 decisions on her Q? Yeah, I guess she can activate it 3x, though there would never be a time you'd want the cd of it to run out without using all charges. By that same logic I could argue Ahri's ult has 3 decisions or any transform champ has at least 6 decisions if not more. Riven has issues for sure, but it isn't because she has too many decisions. She gets the old defense from building offense and more offense from building offense, so her item build is streamlined to just buy AD stat sticks.

The Xin part is equally deceitful. Any player that just uses Q every time it's off CD is going to be a craptastic xin. It's his critical form of CC and he needs to be in a position to get all 3 attacks off or the ability is basically wasted.

And you also gloss over the interactions with passives. For example, Xin's E isn't simply "do I charge this one or someone else or no one?" as is described. When you first charge onto a target you don't attack right away so there's a window where they aren't tagged with his passive meaning that his ult can knock the thing back. Along with the slow, it's a very useful way to set up the ult.

Overall, this thread has some halfway decent ideas, but it seems to try to fit the kits to fit the overall argument rather than actually being objective.

Teridax681/5/2015, 2:34:29 PM4 votes

This is excellently written. You've put a ton of effort into a post that is eloquent yet easy to understand and read through, and makes a ton of good points. I completely agree that one of the main flaws of a lot of older champions is the lack of decision-making, and I think that's also the core issue with a lot of fighters, whose power is largely tied to steroids and stat bonuses. I do, however, disagree with a few of your points:

Jax W (Empower) [as an ability with no decision-making]

That would be true if Empower's functionality were only limited to an autoattack, but it can also empower Jax 's Leap Strike, so it does carry a decision: do I use this directly as I jump onto my target, forgoing the autoattack reset, or do I wait a little and use it after I dash, spending a little more time out in the open (and giving my opponent a chance to evade the attack) in exchange for a chance to deal more damage?

While you tend to label these other factors as "part of a larger decision", I still think those factors are important, and can make the difference between an ability with no decision-making whatsoever and a major decision point. Conversely, I think some abilities that look like they involve decision-making actually don't: Ashe 's Q, Frost Shot, for example, allows her autoattacks to apply crowd control, but the ability itself carries little decision-making and, in fact, reduces options for both Ashe and her opponent (if you have no gapcloser and get slowed, you can't really run away or retreat to safety). All perma-slows have this problem, which is why they're being removed.

Kog’maw’s W (Bioarcane barrage) [as an ability with no significant repercussions]

Again, this would be true on its own, except KogMaw is also defined by extreme vulnerability and a sub-par autoattack range. Using it does bring repercussions, because without his steroid Kog'Maw puts himself at heavy risk, and the ability's cooldown is long enough that he can never have it up all the time (Kayle , on the other hand, can become permanently ranged). It's because of factors like these that you can't simply judge any ability or effect in a vacuum.

These abilities are important decisions because they do different things based on how, when, or to whom they are done. Does Irelia’s E (Equilibrium Strike) stun them or merely slow?

I'd say this is actually a good example of a false decision. As Irelia , you're never going to want to deliberately lose more health than your opponent just so that you can stun them. The conditional just means you have a better chance of escaping or dueling your opponent if you're at a disadvantage, but otherwise the ability carries little decision-making.

W – Ki Burst: Riven emits a Ki Burst, damaging and stunning nearby enemies. Probably the least interactive of her abilities

I disagree with this. Its cast time and extremely short range means it has gameplay similar to that of a skillshot (with Riven as the projectile), where your opponent has an an opportunity to move out of the way even as you're casting it. It's as interactive as the damage on her Q, which can be dodged in the same way.

Overall, I agree with almost everything you're written down, and you make a very good point about the importance of decision-making in fun and interactive play. However, I think there are some nuances on ability interaction and windows of opportunity/vulnerability (i.e. using an ability leaves you open to counterattack or some other kind of counterplay) that you need to integrate more into your post. You've set very good general rules, but I still think abilities and champion kits need to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, and not on their own.

Kingsgrave1/5/2015, 5:44:56 AM4 votes

Notice how most fighters have very little room for making decisions and are between Warwick and Xin Zhao in terms of the amount? Thats mostly what Ghostcrawler and them have been trying to say for a while now but never actually defined it like this.

Good job. +1

Volibear MonkeyKing in particular are pretty much problematic in this regard just like Xin. They never really have room to make cool plays or react, so you either have more stats and win or you don't. You can either go in and destroy someone or you can do nothing and lose. Lee and Riven are super popular because they can always do something. Same with Yasuo and Zed too.

Spacesuit Spiff1/5/2015, 3:09:07 AM3 votes

That's a really good way to look at this sort of thing. Basically why I'm ok with Lee being the way he is, because it's him instead of Amumu or WW or something.

The Epicer ONe1/5/2015, 9:39:22 PM3 votes

nice insight u give u one more post

dialMARK4acti0n1/5/2015, 8:41:52 PM3 votes

Thanks for the shoutout man! I'm so glad people like the series. Sorry there hasn't been anything released lately! Working on it though ;)

DSRM Mobius1/5/2015, 4:30:56 PM2 votes

this is amazing and thank you for taking all that time to write this down. amazing work keep it up!

UberAffe1/5/2015, 2:00:53 AM2 votes

I really like this concept of looking at champions based on how many meaningful decisions they have. Do you know of anyone or a site that has made a ranking of champs based on decisions?

ImHerVoice1/5/2015, 6:30:34 AM2 votes

that gas pricing picture I lost my shit. I really did lol summoner 3

Raptamei1/5/2015, 7:02:51 AM2 votes

I always thought the "bruiser age" champions (Renekton, Skarner, Hecarim etc) lack any sort of playmaking potential. Hecarim is as bad as Warwick while being 3 years younger.

The Ellimiist1/5/2015, 11:27:12 AM2 votes

The irony in this entire post is that warwick and zed really only have the same amount of decisions. Who are you going to ult and spam the rest of your kit at. Zed just does it flashier.

AquariusGine1/5/2015, 1:15:40 PM2 votes

Thanks for making this thread, it has given me a better insight of champions interactions. It was also an enjoyable read.

I hope Riot sees this thread.

1+

kitcat3001/5/2015, 2:46:47 AM2 votes

From the examples we’ve seen, the number of decisions characters have can be really important in terms of trying to balance them. Too many decisions and you end up with characters that will remain viable in almost all metas, like Lee Sin and Orianna. Too few decisions and you end up with characters that will either be overpowered or really weak, like Warwick and pre-rework Sion.

That's.... to the point.

Good read, one of the few long winded discussions I have read completely.

Bouffon dAnglais1/5/2015, 4:28:49 PM2 votes

Good read. Im looking forward to the other ones you'll make.

Pvt Yong Tai1/6/2015, 8:18:41 AM1 votes

I like a lot of the things that Ashes Arise said in his post and would like to expand on that discussion a little bit. I love playing Warwick (he has been my #1 fav champ since the dawn of my LoL career) but it pains me to see when people dismiss him as an "ez no skillz" champ. Sure he doesn't have to click many buttons when fighting, so much that I could even make calls in the chat while move+attacking someone if I needed to, but the decisions that he makes OUTSIDE of his kit and the final, calculated, game-changing decision that he makes when he has to ult somebody makes him extremely entertaining and exciting to watch (note that this is my opinion as a Warwick player watching other Warwick players). Before the ult happens, the Warwick has to calculate the availability of every skill-breaker CC the enemy has, the current damage potentials of his own teammates, the proximity and appropriateness of the positioning, and the prime target of the skill. Fail any of these and you could single-handedly lose your team the teamfight and the game. Succeed, and you can push your team to an unexpected victory. It's like going all-in on a bet where you have one (count 'em, one) chance.

While pushing back that decisive action, there is very little you can do besides guide your team to an optimal setup. Commanding the team becomes so much easier when you're playing a simple champion like Warwick in solo queue. He is a powerful champion at taking objectives. He is strong at taking dragon or baron, can split push, or effectively support a heavy tower siege. With his simple kit he can make so many decisions about how to pressure the map while lying in wait for the perfect ult. Sure, there are other champs who can pressure all areas of the map just as well, but none of them can do it with such a simple yet decisive kit as Warwick's.

The Red Warden1/5/2015, 5:43:55 AM1 votes

Using this format just makes me think of how strange Morde is. Mordekaiser

His Q,W,E are all meant to be spammed as much as possible only being limited by the health costs (though that decision evaporates also once spell vamp is acquired). Not to mention how the passive only encourages spamming further.

Then you get to his ult. Holy shit! That is 3-4 in only one ability.

First, during the laning phase this ult presents you with the choice of either using it for sustain (with its 100% spell vamp) or saving it up for the kill.

Second, when do I use this in a teamfight? Do I blow it right at the beginning in hopes of taking one person down instantly for that giant stat boost and ghost that pretty much wins any teamfight, but easier to negate due to cleanses and shields. I could use it at the end of a teamfight when I am sure to get a ghost, this somewhat cripples your team fight potential yet assures you an even faster push.

Third, who do I ult? Is it the mage whose ghost, while mostly useless as a pet, gives me an AP stat boost that is sometimes even better than item 3089. Or do I take the ADC whose ghost alone can win any teamfight and provide immense pushing power, but the personal stat boost may as well not be there if I do.

He ends up with maybe 1 decision coming from all 3 of his basic abilities combined, yet his ult may just be the game's most complicated ability.

What is your opinion on Yorick?

BRBGTGBOWFLEX1/5/2015, 2:06:41 PM1 votes

So much writing for so little value. You need to deliver more with less words.

AmazingGoat1/5/2015, 9:32:54 PM1 votes

Great post. I have recently been spending time thinking along the same lines.

You have framed the conversation in terms of meaningful choices. I think this is an interesting lens through which to view champion kits, and yields a lot of great insights.

Rather than try to perfectly formulate and connect all my comments, I'm just going to throw some disjointed thoughts:

I think an interesting angle to look at some abilities in is that not only do some abilities not require many meaningful choices, but they actually REDUCE the amount of meaning other choices have. Every player in league is making meaningful choices all the time. As an ADC or other squishy, where you position yourself in the moments before a team fight represents a huge meaningful choice at each moment that can have a big impact on the game. If you make the wrong choice at any of these moments, you can get caught out and cost your team the game. Mobility abilities, however, can reduce the impact of each of these choices, and make them less meaningful. As Ezreal, your choice of where to position yourself leading up to a team fight is still very meaningful, but it is not necessarily as meaningful as the same choice by a Varus player, because you have an ability which allows you to instantly get away. Thus, dashes and blinks and other mobility abilities may increase the amount of meaningful choices you have, they may also decrease the meaningfulness of other choices you make (e.g. where you position yourself). Akali's and Wukong's stealth abilities operate similarly.

On a related note, some abilities REDUCE the amount of meaningful choices other players have. Poppy's ult and Trynd's ult are great examples of this. If you're fighting a Poppy and she ults someone else, you have very little meaningful choices to make for the duration of her ult. If you're fighting Trynd 1v1 and he ults, there's a good chance your choices just got narrowed down to "run" or "die".

It is perfectly okay for a champion to have an ability that makes a champion's mistakes more forgiving (like a blink) or that reduces opponent counterplay (like temporary invuln), but it is important for that ability to be a balanced part of a healthy kit as a whole.

Some champion's kits are so cohesively directed toward a single play style that looking at each ability individually overstates the meaningful choices made when playing the champion. Burst champions are the offenders of this that come immediately to mind. For example, with Annie, although your Q, W, and R all could be characterized as having meaningful choices, after the laning phase, if you cast one you are generally going to unload the rest as well. Your choice, at any given moment, it basically a binary choice: do I go in. Sure, she has the choice of which spell to initiate with, and what target(s) to hit, and whether to use her ult, but for the most part she just goes in or she doesn't.

Akali is perhaps an even more extreme version of this. Akali just goes in. If she's ahead you die. If she's not, she dies. If you try to run, you will die, because her kit gives her the ability to go in over and over tied to a point and click ability that she can't miss. Warwick when he was overtuned was a slightly different version of this. He still went in with a point and click ability, but he could only go in once. However, he usually killed whoever he went in on, and he was tanky enough (plus lifesteal) to ensure he was still going to be a factor in the fight.

At the end of the day I generally agree with you that the kits with the least meaningful choices are the most problematic, but I think it's mostly a function of ease of use. If a champion has a kit where a lot of the power is tied to abilities that are hard to mess up mechanically (e.g. point and click abilities), and has a simple play style that is easy to grasp (e.g. nuke the other person), then the champion is either going to be oppressive or undertuned.

I think that Sona is an interesting champion to look at in this discussion. In theory, she has a ton of meaningful decisions to make, when you look at the different auras she can use and the different power chord choices she can make. In reality, however, she is a champion who has a straightforward play pattern and a lot of abilities that are hard to mess up. This isn't to say there isn't some advantage to mastering Sona, as I'm sure there are nuances and a great Sona player can get a lot more out of her than the average player, but an average Sona player can still utilize a large portion of her power budget. Compare this to Thresh, where an average Thresh player will come nowhere near being as useful as a great Thresh player.

The Ecdysiast1/6/2015, 4:35:40 AM1 votes

What they need to do is what they did to Sion. That is, remake everyone with very few decisions and keep the important passives as added passives to other abilities. Though one of the things I absolutely hate is all the passives on top of actives being stacked on to champions now. Gnar Azir Kalista Yasuo (Or in Azir's case, the added active on his actual passive) I get that they want to make champions that actually have four abilities and not just passives, but they go a little crazy with it.

UberAffe1/6/2015, 6:37:00 AM1 votes

FYI I have started going through champions and rating them, and it is going to take a loooooooong time but something I realized about riven is that even though she does have 3 choices with her q its really only the 3rd one that is important to her. personally I would say that the q as a whole is 10/10 a decision, with the first being 3/10 second being 2/10 and third being 5/10.