Boards›Gameplay

Can we finally say Bard needs buffs?

xXKUR0S4K1Xx·3/15/2015, 10:03:15 AM·7 votes·5,192 views

Edit 3:Keep in mind this is 3 months old and he DID get fairly significant buffs: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-57-notes (and to a lesser degree in patch 5.8 too)

34% winrate or so speaks for itself. Even if we let a month pass and the pickrate goes down to around 2% his winrate won't pass 40% (I estimate 42% at most). No champ who ends up relatively balanced, starts with a winrate that low. I main neither support or adc but from what I have heard you just can't trade due to his lack of damage.

Anyone who is at least a gold adc or support main, got an idea for a buff?

Edit: If you disagree then tell me how this disgustingly low winrate doesn't speak for itself. Edit 2: I can't see how people disagree but I don't want to assume that people are fucking retarded (honestly I do though). So a comparison: 34% winrate 41% winrate 42% winrate

They are trash tier champs right now.

Always hovers around 44% and is a troll pick for most people.

Not knowing how to properly play a champ makes a difference but not such a huge one. Champs with winrates like this always get buffed and so will Bard.

You can't compare it to the Yasuo winrate because Yasuo didn't actually have a very low winrate for more than a day or so. http://puu.sh/5NCLy.jpg He is also pretty hard to play

Gnar is an extremely unique champ who is hard to play as well. I don't have a pick but while his winrates were pretty low they were definitely much higher than Bards.

Bard is easy to play and doesn't have any carry potential. He isn't exactly easy to play but not extremely hard or anything either. Gnar and Yasuo are hard to play and have huge carry potential. That's a huge difference guys. I can't remember the last support that had a low winrate at release that increased by over 15% without buffs. Though I would be very interested.

31 Comments

Raptamei3/15/2015, 11:31:04 AM4 votes

{quoted}

Edit: If you disagree then tell me how this disgustingly low winrate doesn't speak for itself.

Kalista Yasuo

LoLKiru3/15/2015, 12:47:08 PM3 votes

I usually give these things around a month or two before ever talking about them, since we've seen "that" scenario play out MANY times now

"(insert champion here) is so underpowered riot"

Riot buffs them

"(insert champion here) IS COMPLETELY OVERPOWERED NOW, RIOT WTF"

happened to Yasuo, Gnar, and I believe Azir (though Azir was bugged to hell and back so thats not really a good comparison)

Hupsis3/15/2015, 11:00:04 AM3 votes

Too many people building him squishy. Riot should probably give him some hp scaling to his abilities (or passive).

Squishy + roaming = easy prey

I kinda hoped he would be able to use relic shield. But the meep damage doesn't seem to be enough to allow him reliable last hitting early game.

blacksky333333/16/2015, 6:16:34 PM3 votes

I like Bard but the heal shrine is a bit underpower right now. -alistar: 2x40mana 60hp + 120hp -taric: 80mana 60x2hp -nami : 70mana 65x2hp + poke -sona : 80mana 45x2hp (if at50%hp) + shield -soraka: 10%hp+20mana 25+1%miss + 110hp.

-bard: 100mana 70hp + ms boost.

As you can see all them have better heal than bard. Moreover they can more or less heal both adc and support, and can be class as poke or tank. Bard have hard time to poke/tank and monotarget heal ( with delay btw). As main support,i find it feel weak. The other problem is against lane pressure supp u can't peel effectively with Q.

this is my proposition: -bard: 100mana 85hp heal
1.5sec +30% ms boost 0.5sec spell shield (that don't work against ulti/ when full charged).

Let me explain, The heal will be more efficient and balance. In the same time ms boost is a bit strong imo (chase/gank/retreat). The new thing is a very short spell shield (sivir last 1.5sec), that let an alone adc a small chance to protect himself.

my 2cents.

Fizz is not Fish3/15/2015, 1:21:43 PM3 votes

STOP BITCHING ABOUT NEW CHAMP AT THE FIRST WEEK. GIVE HIM AT LEAST ONE MONTH.

Malix Farwin3/15/2015, 1:18:04 PM3 votes

never forget 30% winrate Gnar and Yasuo

PikoNeeko3/19/2015, 11:34:54 PM2 votes

the only real problem with Bard is his Q and chimes, and possibly his under-whelming heal.

I think that if chimes spawned closer and/or more frequently he'd do a lot better.

As for Q, i think a longer stun range (the part that extends behind the first target it hits) would do him a lot of justice.

For his heal i feel like a stronger initial/instant heal and a shorter amp-up time would be best.

MY OPINION OF ALL HIS SKILLS (if you care :P) Bard

Bard is obviously not an ideal choice when it comes to supports, considering his winrate. The fact is you cant argue with numbers and the numbers show that Bard is at a disadvantage from the get-go, thus resulting in a ~34% winrate. I think Riot got way too far ahead of themselves releasing Bard the way he is. By simple comparison in terms of what Bard can do, i feel like he falls far below par.

He has a stun/slow, but so does nami, leo, taric, etc., but also Bard's is considerably difficult to land. It's basically a combination of Vayne's Condemn and Lulu's Q. He has a heal, but so does Nami, sona, soraka, taric, etc., but also Bard's is stationary and not as potent as other supports' even when fully charged. His Magical Journey is arguably his strongest skill, and isn't easily comparable to other supports' sources of mobility. Finally, his ultimate is so situational and even in the right situation it is still difficult to use properly.

Homurà Akemì6/21/2015, 3:26:34 AM1 votes

I've been practicing with bars for the past month. At first, I never won. But once you take the time to learn and practice he's op.

The only buff he needs is maybe a stack with the tunnels. Maybe up to 2/3 stacks of tunnels when hes level 18. Level 1 he has 1 tunnel, level 9 he has 2, and 18 he can have 3.

As to win rate, since I've been playing a lot and gotten better, my last 12 games with him I've lost 3. Usually because of ADC, and on one game everyone left. But my kdr/assist is way in the positive. So no, only buff that would be good is more tunnels.

Collect keeps and CD, attack speed, Mage/Armor defense, and trinity force. You're good to go.

doublelift fg3/15/2015, 10:13:03 AM1 votes

if you give him damage, there will be no reasons to take other supports

ModAttysu The Poro6/21/2015, 3:31:48 AM1 votes

ALLLLLLLL the smartasses in the comments: It's been 3 months.

Sassmast3r3/15/2015, 10:16:11 AM1 votes

Well, I'm a support main, so I guess my opinion is slightly valid? Anyways, I think the major issue with Bard is the fact that, as support, he isn't much of an actual support. Let's review what he's capable of.

His Q - The only DAMAGING spell he even has, does minimal damage regardless.

His W - Not a bad idea actually, but they never seem to heal an ADC much, irrelevant to how long they have been sitting - Even a health potion seems to do a better job (at least based on what I've seen).

His E - INCREDIBLY difficult to enter through, and doesn't help the ADC THAT much in laning.

His R - VERY nice to use, but sooo many bards use it improperly it genuinely makes me laugh. Cannot tell you how many times the enemy stuns the person they're trying to chase AND their entire team who is trying to then kill that person, or end up completely missing.

My suggestions - Either make his W like Nami's, where if an enemy steps on it, it does some sort of damage - HE REALLY NEEDS TO DO MORE DAMAGE, OR completely replace his E. In the laning phase, I hate to say it, but it has little-to-no impact based on what I've seen from enemy Bards.

Another issue I have noticed with Bard is just how he was designed. The idea of roaming the jungle is a bad idea because it: Leaves your ADC alone, making them susceptible to death due to the enemy no longer being afraid of your stun, and makes Bard vulnerable to the enemy jungler or whomever else might be in the jungle or near him. I honestly had really high hopes in this idea at first, but after seeing it in action, I must say it really doesn't work for bottom lane. If it was a solo lane (perhaps this is just me), I feel as if Bard would do much better with the wandering concept, but since Bard is designed to support the one person in a team whom does the damage and CARRIES the team, not being able to protect that important person kind of fucks the entire team in the end.

Share with me your thoughts/modifications :D

SpecterVonBaren3/15/2015, 10:50:23 AM1 votes

Increase his aa range by 50, increase his base ad by 4, decrease the number of chimes needed to get all of its unique passives. Would be a start at least.

Reaper Soraka3/15/2015, 1:08:51 PM1 votes

I think he has the potential to change the bot lane. Maybe we'll start seeing Morganas or Ziggs holding the lane against two players while he's off playing with mid top and their jungle. Something that has some safety and waveclear so it doesn't just feed the lane.

I think we should try being a little more creative with what he brings to the table before we call him too weak and in need of buffs.

Abyssphere3/16/2015, 4:07:05 AM1 votes

People seem terrible at using him honestly. Like, it's not a case like Yasuo where people don't know the combos and how safe they are, how much kill potential they have etc. People don't know what to build on Bard (I've seen Lich Banes - this isn't Sona!) and they also have no idea when to even be in lane with him. So many people wandering into the enemy jungler blindly and not even bothering to ward on the way because "muh chimes".

When the dumbasses stop playing him then things will get better. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was very undertuned but the 34% win rate has to be largely down to people being dumb. We don't need miracle buffs just yet.

Stephenizgod3/16/2015, 4:26:18 AM1 votes

Dude... Bard has been out for less then a week... no one knows how to build him or use him as of yet or those that do are few in numbers. Plus every "support main" is using him and not doing so good. Give it like a month and then lets talk about buffing or nerfing him.

DotEleven3/16/2015, 6:57:47 AM1 votes

The issue is that he's much more team focused than other supports. You're looking more to roam and gank and bring a buddy along instead of stay in lane and fight with the other guy. Not to mention his Q is his ONLY damage, total, nothing else. His W is really low for the ridiculous cost (100 mana for 30-70 heal or 120 for 150-230 level 1 and 5 respectively). His E is USELESS in lane.