Taliyah's W just got ruined.

Vandal Savage·7/13/2016, 1:07:09 PM·16 votes·1,986 views

I was worried that they would ruin Taliyah's W with these changes, and I was correct.

I use Smart cast/quick cast/whatever you want to call it. Prior to the changes, I really enjoyed Taliyah's W. Once you got used to it, it was very intuitive. You would hover over where you wanted to cast the W, press W, and then if you wanted to knock them somewhere other than up, you would move your mouse in that direction and then press W again.

Simple, quick, and because the spell was cast the first time you pressed W, the delay started immediately.

Now, let's look at it after the changes. You have to hover over where you want to cast the W, hold down W, move your mouse into the direction you want to knock them, and then let go of W.

Why is this worse?

Because it's now vector cast, the spell will not be cast until you let go of W. And before you let go of W, you have to move your mouse in the direction you want to knock them. And only after that will the spell's delay begin. This means that there is an unavoidable delay caused by the player having to move the mouse before letting go of W. That fraction of a second can mean the difference between hitting an enemy or not.

Furthermore, the need to decide in what direction to knock them takes out some of the decision-making allowed by her W. Previously, after you cast W the first time, if you were fast enough, you may be able to notice changing circumstances which would alter the direction you want to knock them to. Let's say suddenly another enemy champion appeared and you now wanted to knock them away from you so that you can escape rather than knocking them into your minefield, which would put them closer to you. With the old W, there was a possibility for you to do just that. Now that her W requires a direction on the initial cast, you cannot.

And finally, because her W now requires a direction, you can no longer knock people up. It's now just a knockback. Again, you are taking decision-making potential away from Taliyah. Sometimes you don't want to knock an enemy away in any direction, because you want to keep them where they are. Maybe it's because you have them at the perfect distance from yourself. Maybe your team has a bunch of skillshots and you just want to use the knockup as a pseudo-stun without messing with their targeting. Whatever. There are definite reasons to sometimes want to knock an enemy straight up rather than knocking them in any direction. Now you just cannot do that. This further strips Taliyahs everywhere of options.

Taliyah's W is not Rumble's R or Viktor's E. Those spells cast all at once. There is no delay. And because they are rays, they require a direction by definition. But Taliyah's W is much different. It is not a ray. It's just a circular area of effect. And more importantly, it has a delay. Because of this delay, you can do things with the spell that cannot be done with Viktor's E or Rumble's R. It is simply a completely different spell, and it should not be pigeonholed into using the same casting system that the other two use just because Riot wants to reuse systems.

Riot, this is terrible. Her new W is a mockery of a once-great spell. Give us back our options and decision-making. Make Taliyah Great Again.

27 Comments

Jynweithek7/13/2016, 4:39:59 PM8 votes

I absolutely agree. Before the patch i had 150 games on Taliyah and was my most played champion and was using her to climb. Now I can't see myself keep playing her. I've messed around a lot in customs since the new patch and played a few normals with her and she just feels so off now.

Aside from vector casting being very poor choice for her W, because as you said, it's not a directional "laser"(the point of origin of Viktor's laser doesn't matter nearly as much as Taliyah's W since all that matters is that it hits it target eventually), the extra delay that comes from the W now activating on press-down really messes up a lot of the fluidity of her kit. I also miss being able to simply knock enemies up, which is especially useful for setting up ganks in lane if you have a Zac or Sejuani, or any champ that has a skillshot engage. Another point that hasn't been brought up yet, is that it's way too easy to cancel it now because if you issue movement commands during the vector cast, you cancel the casting. This means that unlike before, you can't juke or kite very well while trying to cast your W.

There are so many abilities in the game that has double taps, and I really don't think that was the major issue for her steep learning curve or that people were put off from playing her. The ultimate is probably the biggest reason for the learning curve being so steep(as it should be), and the reason for her low popularity was the lock-out when using her W, not the actual way of casting it.

Personally, I'd rather have her just as she was, maybe with some damage nerfs as she was very oppressive, and possibly maybe only 20% extra damage to creeps on her Q so she can't waveclear that well. If the removal of the lock-out is a must for her to get the(supposedly) needed popularity(which she probably would've gotten anyway, seeing as how she was performing in pro play), then I can live with that, but unless the W goes back to being cast the way it was, or at least have it as an option, I probably won't play Taliyah again.

Deathleage7/13/2016, 3:49:44 PM8 votes

Agree in this post taliyah W got ruined hard #MakeTaliyahGreatAgain

Quepha7/13/2016, 3:50:37 PM8 votes

I liked the double tap too.

Ρrogram Nami7/13/2016, 2:00:57 PM4 votes

Some1 wrote about 2 types of cast: old (like Q nami, but double tap), new (like vikotrs ray). I like this and hope we can get this option in future.Taliyah Janna

Critmaster Garen7/13/2016, 4:23:30 PM3 votes

the few times i played her i absolutely hated how her w worked. its so counterintuitive and feels like its just clunky and takes up extra time.

glad they changed it to vector cast. might give her a shot now.

its just a matter of practise. youll get used to it in a couple games.

GaleWinUnleashed7/13/2016, 4:38:01 PM3 votes

I had no real opinion on the difference between the double-tap and the vector cast. Both have their problems. Double tap was weird because there was no equivalent anywhere else in the game, and vector-cast is undeniably slower because it now requires the mouse input before starting the cast time. At least there's no casting lockout during W now, so you can do a W>E combo.

https://i.imgur.com/1HvNiEO.png?noredirect

MilkyCarton7/19/2016, 7:52:20 PM2 votes

I regret paying money to change my name, Taliyah was great until riot did this. This new w for me is harder since it keeps throwing the person the wrong way. PLEASE RIOT, BRING HER OLD W BACK!

Oleandervine7/13/2016, 4:45:28 PM2 votes

Taliyah's original W was just awful. You merely learned how to manage it, because on the whole, it's not that much different with Vector cast, only, more fluid. Before, not only did you have to telegraph your entire intent with E first, you also were unable to cast anything else once you had hit W until you hit W again. This is fine and dandy if no one ever moved, but in a furious team fight, you never have the luxury of that much time to plan. With Vector, you can at least set up your combos way faster, and much more on the fly, and upkeep a steady stream of damage with continuous casting, rather than having to pause while you cast W. I think it is an improvement over the old style, and I'm glad they changed it to be so much less clunky.

Athina7/13/2016, 8:52:38 PM2 votes

I agree with every bit of this. It's a shame we have some down vote fairies flying around. Her W used to be quick and intuitive, now it's just slow and annoying.

Calabok7/13/2016, 7:37:15 PM1 votes

It's a buff. You all just need to play her until you get used to it instead of whining about it.

Calabok7/16/2016, 1:50:20 AM1 votes

nah, practice makes perfect.