A statistical comparison between ADCs now and in S2

Mizaya·3/22/2018, 8:50:49 PM·13 votes·2,810 views

Alright, so I've heard a lot of talk about ADC items being "power-creeped". And I just happened to have some time on my hands and went ahead and did the calculations.

DISCLAIMER EDIT: This post makes no argument, and doesn't pertain to the overall balance of ADCs. I was hoping I wouldn't have to include this but oh well. I made this with the intent of having a discussion.

For my champion I used Trist, since she's pretty easy to calculate with no %hp dmg or whatever. Note that for these calculations her Q IS active.

BUILDS

Here's the S8 Build (16,500g Cost): item 3006 item 3031 item 3087 item 3094 item 3072 item 3036 item 2140

For S2 it gets a bit tricky. To match the S8 Build's full damage path you'd get 2 PDs, but since GA was a common buy I'll include both.

S2 w/ 1 PD (16,085g Cost):item 3006 item 3031 item 3046 item 3072 item 3035 item 3026 + Elixir of Fortitude & Elixir of Agility (Obviously the items are much different now than they were at the time) S2 w/ 2 PDs (16,330g Cost) :item 3006 item 3031 item 3046 item 3046 item 3072 item 3035 + Elixir of Fortitude & Elixir of Agility

-- A Shitton of digging up past masteries, stats, items, etc. was done --

RESULTS

Here's my results as of now: Each set of bars is DPS to a given target with varying Armor, MR, and Health (Statikk Shiv DMG is included):

https://i.imgur.com/yHPkKt2.png[/img]

Here's another graph, which essentially calculates the damage of 3 consecutive crits (Shiv included for s8)

https://i.imgur.com/dVreYBd.png[/img]

Some initial thoughts:

  • ADCs' damage in S2, when opting for a full damage build, is nearly universally higher. Squishy targets take more damage from even a single PD build until Lord Dominik's bonus damage from health differences causes s8 Damage to break even. However, relative to squishy targets, tankier targets appear to take more damage in S8 compared to S2 (2 PDs still does more damage to tanky targets).
  • The s8 ADC build had a lot more AD (Thanks to Gathering Storm, for the most part), but much less AS compared to a full-offensive S2 build (S8 is about the same as S2 with only 1 PD, but S2 with 2 PDs well exceeds 2.5 AS considering that Trist's Q is active).
  • S2 ADCs typically ran Armor pen marks and got more armor pen from masteries, and it was %total rather than %bonus pen. This is why squishies took so much more damage in S2 and could actually be 3 shot, as compared to 4 in S8.
  • Elixirs could stack in S2, as a side note.
  • I'm aware that many other things have changed in the game as regarding the context of ADC damage. I'm purely trying to look at the Damage based on items alone on a basic runes/masteries setup. Enemy ADCs building GA more often, for example, would make them take less damage on average since the item did give a lot of armor at the time. Supports also factor into this, and I'm sure they contribute much more to ADC DPS now than back then.
  • I definitely could have made some errors in here, but I spent a shitton of time doing this so I hope they aren't significant.

68 Comments

Ahristocats3/22/2018, 9:55:43 PM13 votes

didn't read all but i wanted to point out something because most of players didn't play in season 2

adcs in season 2 legit dealt no damage before PD+IE, this was due to defense being really really strong back then and both used to cost 3800+2800 gold

compare this to now where an adc is already relevant with a BF, and gets their powerspike way way sooner cuz IE cost 3400 and zeal items 2600

ZJD1233/23/2018, 4:56:53 AM10 votes

This has got to be one of the worst, most misleading, and disgusting arguments ive ever read on the boards. Ill go on to explain why.

Before I even get into the item comparison, lets point out the fact that you strawmaned the entire argument by claiming "adc damage in s2 was universally higher than in s8" when your entire data is a comparison of tristana with 1 ability activated. So because tristana with 1 ability on does more damage in s2 than in s8 , now all of a sudden you use this to claim the entire adc class did more damage in s2? You specifically hand pick a specific champion+scenario in a vacuum to fit your agenda then use it to strawman the entire boards by claiming now ALL adc dps must have been higher in s2.

Putting that aside, lets talk about how foolish your math here is. You take, zerker greaves, ie, 2 zeal items, bt, and lw from s2 and you compare it to WELL HURR zerker greaves, ie , 2 zeal items , bt , and lw in s8. WELL WHO WOULDA THUNK THE SAME FUCKING ITEMS DO THE SAME DPS LOL. those items never changed lmfao. they took 20 ad off bt and recovered that power in ldr and shiv. Other than some minor tweaks the items have not changed much.

What has changed however is the pricing of zeal items and ie along with ambient gold, catchup xp (remember in s2 when mid would be 3-4 lvls higher than bot lane depending on how fed? and 2~ levels higher than the enemy mid if you were fed). ie and two zeal items costed nearly 700g less back then compared to now but I do like how you decided to include BT in there (a much more expensive item now than in s2) as well as 2 elixirs to try to even out the gold disparity. Green elixir giving attack speed and crit (i think it gave AS) is also a huge reason as to why your tailored your numbers to even up. How about you do another chart with 3 item build vs 3 item build with no green elixir?

But the biggest reason of all why this is bullshit propaganda: the fact that ADC champions themselves have been boosted so tremendously you cannot even compare (unless you strawman it by picking tristana with 1 ability up xd).

Compare any ADC. Ashe for example, in s2 her q applies a slow and thats it. No damage. Her w was about the same. Her E no damage. R no damage. Her passive was (your first auto crits) or some shit. She had basically no steroid. Look at her now, Q and passive are solid steroids. Compare caitlyn, she was one of the lowest dmg adcs. passive was 50% ad ratio bonus that couldnt crit. traps didnt do damage basically. her net didnt proc a headshot. her headshot didnt hyperscale in damage with a unique crit chance multiplier mechanic. Corki's passive didnt hyperscale. It was just 10% ad true dmg that couldnt crit. His passive now is considered why corki is good late game. Didnt have package, did less R damage, Q didnt have ad ratio. Ezreal q damage was lower , his E didnt have an AD ratio , he couldnt buff his own AS with his W. You get the idea here? MF R couldnt crit, her passive wasnt a 100% bonus ad modifier. Her AS amp was 60% instead of 100%. How do you even compare S2 to S8? Tristana received 2.0 ad scaling on an ability that previously was AP, gained AS on her Q, and the ability to reset?

Dont even wanna waste my time typing an essay about how support itemization was hyper warped since S2 and how that lead to bot lane power (hint: every support still goes ardent censor in s8 when applicable).

But yea, glad you choose tristana... with 1 ability online... with unchanged items... You know i op.gg'd you thinking "100% this guys an ADC main". What do ya know.

haaaaaaalp3/22/2018, 10:02:52 PM8 votes

Yeah, people seem to have forgotten just how strong marksmen have been over the course of 8 seasons. Marksmen being overpowered isn't a new thing. They have always been the only archetype that 99.9% of teams were required to pick due to how strong they were.

People are just now realizing that marksmen are overpowered but marksmen being overpowered did not happen overnight.

Taliyah Rocks3/22/2018, 9:14:42 PM5 votes

I think most people are mistaken about adc damage, it's mostly about adc snowballing too hard and getting their powerspike much earlier.

Back then IE rush was very innefficient, almost every adc go BT and tried to stack it as fast as possible to get all that raw AD and sustain. Which meant that adc essentially got their powerspike after their third item, once they got BT, IE and PD.

Nowadays it's comon for adc to rush IE or other crit item, which leads to an early powerspike once they get their second item.

Going back to lane with item 1038item 1053 while the enemy adc could complete their item 3072 felt much less brutal than the current item 1038item 1018 vs. item 3031 / item 3124.

The meta shifted toward damage creep, and rushing damage allows you to get a solid lead over the opponent. On the other hand you could argue that the BT rush meta made every poke lane impossible to play, so it certainly wasn't perfect either, it was just less "snowbally" so people complained less.

Losing lane back then vs getting stomped today feels very awful in comparison.

vgamedude3/22/2018, 10:37:45 PM5 votes

Just shows adcs were always ridiculous, as also evident by them being the sole requirement on every team.