Suggestion for Ranked System

red panda z·Mar 25, 2015·1 votes·1,606 views

So I posted this in another thread, but I received a comment saying I should make a new one all about this suggestion since it might get more recognition, so here it is.

The basic concept is that, yes, there is a base LP gain or loss depending on if your team wins or losses a match. Beyond a win or a loss though, you could also receive a gain or loss on your LP depending on a system of complex objectives that identify your personal skill as a player in that particular match. Here is a list of some different points I thought about that can really help indicate how well someone actually played:

CS total: Bonus LP is awarded to players that have X amount of CS by XX:XX (The time that your game ended). The amount of CS required would raise the longer the match goes.

Kill/Death Ratio: LP is awarded to players for having a positive Kill/Death Ratio. A minimum of 2:1 is required to receive any boost, and the amount of LP scales the higher the ratio is.

Kill Streak: An LP bonus is awarded to players based on their highest Kill Streak title they have received during the match. The smallest bonus starts at "Rampage" and the highest received is "Legendary"

Multi-Kill Bonus: An LP bonus is awarded to players based on their highest Multi-Kill they performed during the match. The smallest bonus starts at "Triple Kill" and could go as high as "Pentakill" (technically you CAN surpass Pentakill but its such a situational scenario and doesn't have an actual registered voice effect outside of the Hexakill game mode)

Unkillable Bonus: An LP bonus is awarded to a player who's death count is 0.

Assist/Death Ratio: Functions just like Kill/Death Ratio but with lower bonuses per ratio since its easier to accumulate large Assist/Death ratios.

Combat Participation: LP is awarded to players who's combined Kills and Assists is equal to a minimum 40% of the team's total amount of kills. LP received would scale with higher percentages.

Objective Participation: LP is awarded to players who have taken or assisted with a minimum 40% of objectives. This includes towers, inhibitors, dragons and barons.

Ward Bonus: LP is awarded to players that have placed X amount of wards by XX:XX. Like CS Total, the amount of wards needed raises with the time of the match. (Note: revealing enemy champions with the blue trinket when they currently are not visible would also go towards your ward total as far as this LP boost is concerned)

Ward Destroyer: LP is awarded to players that have destroyed X amount of wards by XX:XX. Basically the invention of Ward Bonus.

There could definitely be other bonuses too, but I also want to bring to attention that you could lose more LP through poor performance situations. Here are a few examples of those:

Excessive Dying: LP is lost for having X amount of Deaths by XX:XX. Having more Deaths does cost you more LP. (Note: I specifically avoided ratios with this as not all players might have kills. Specifically Supports can go an entire game without a single kill, even if they have 5 Deaths.)

AFK: LP is lost for having left the game. Leaving and returning is a small penalty, whereas an abandoned game would have a much larger LP loss.

Verbal Harassment: LP is lost when a minimum of three players have muted you by the end of the match. The amount of LP lost scales if more players have left you muted. (Note: This does not apply if a player has un-muted you during the match. It also encourages players to mute players who are

Having enough bonus LP could actually allow you to gain LP even when your team has lost. The value of the LP gained or lost would be small for individual algorithms, so this doesn't mean that just because you placed a ton of wards, you won't lose LP. It would take a combination of bonuses for you to negate the LP penalty for a lost game.

Being able to keep your KDA positive, ward properly, maintain a healthy CS, and actively participate in combat and objective taking when some of your team (and sometimes all of your team) are failing is immensely challenging. In my opinion, you can tell someone is a good player even more when their team lost and they've still managed to maintain many of these points.

It's important to understand that having not met the standards for a specific algorithm such as Kill/Death Ratio will not penalize you. There should be enough algorithms for LP gains and losses to offer opportunities for all roles to showcase they have the skills, even in defeat, to earn LP. If you play support, you might not aim for CS total, but aim for Ward Bonus, Assist/Death ratio, Combat Participation and Objective Participation. If you do enough, lets say that grants you 5 LP for each bonus: That's 20 LP you gain, and if the lost cost you 15, then you still gain 5.

Does this mean a player could potentially get another 20 LP on top of their victory LP when they win? Absolutely. If someone's hitting all those points, then they may very well deserve to be higher in ranked. If it's a fluke match then their true score will still shine over time.

Phew, that sums up what I had before. And yeah, I'm aware that programming all that could take time. When you start to think about how much LP should be awarded, what the values of CS or Wards should be and what times correlate what the values say about how a player is managing their time it would likely be in testing and the PBE for a significant amount of time. But I really hope some reds get a glimpse of this. I'd love to hear their thoughts on a system like this. Now all that's left is to cross my fingers and wish for the best.

8 Comments

KazaashiApr 1, 20151 votes

That is really well thought out and you hit a lot of things that are important to winning a game. My biggest question is, What problem are you trying to solve? Doesn't a win mean that you were successful in some, if not, all of the points above?

Do you deserve to climb in Ranking if you have the highest CS, KDA, and Objective Participation, but lose games due to pushing too hard, losing a teamfight, and the enemy team pushed for a last minute comeback. Do you deserve to climb if, in getting that awesome KDA and CS, you starved the rest of your team? There are a million things in this game that affects weather you win or lose other than your KDA, CS, and objective participation.

Mr HyddeApr 1, 20151 votes

Well the bonus might not exceed the loss of lp that you get for you loss. but say you are getting -20lp, but you have really good kda, wards, and objective control that might bring the lp loss to -5lp instead. not climbing, but defeinatly padding your loss if you are doing significantly well.

I think this adds a level of control to your ranked experience that currently isn't there and lessens the frusteration of being victim to bad teams/trolls/afk. "I lost, but I did all I could to help the team and I was rewarded for it."

KazaashiApr 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well the bonus might not exceed the loss of lp that you get for you loss. but say you are getting -20lp, but you have really good kda, wards, and objective control that might bring the lp loss to -5lp instead. not climbing, but defeinatly padding your loss if you are doing significantly well.

I mean, you lost though. Its great that you had a good KDA and objective participation, but just because you were at objectives when you team attempted to take them, doesn't mean that it was a good time to try to take it. Maybe that baron attempt that lost you 2 teammates and a tower, wasn't a good idea, even though you did melted 75% of Baron's HP.

Is there a realistic way for a computer algorithm to qualify if a ward was well placed? If it were to go off of just # placed, then people will just spam them with little regard to where they are placed.

I think this adds a level of control to your ranked experience that currently isn't there and lessens the frusteration of being victim to bad teams/trolls/afk. "I lost, but I did all I could to help the team and I was rewarded for it."

You have 0 control over your teammates. The only consistant thing between games is you. As long as you are not the troll/AFK/feeder, the enemy team will have more, and, given enough games, you will win more than lose due to those factors.

Mr HyddeApr 1, 20151 votes

spamming the wards might happen. and then some people might think if im dropping them anyway might as well use them better. encourage buying trinket upgrades. even badly placed wards can be useful. and unless you are sight stoning 40 times on the base plate. dropping 20 wards a game some are going to be positive for your team.

exactly you have 0 control over your team. and thusly about how you climb the elo ladder. at times it seems very random. However, you do over yourself. but you get punished or rewarded based on the team. if you had an aspect of reward/punishment associated with what you do, it would feel better even if you lost.

If you have ever been that guy that went 20/3/10, dropped 30 wards, took 5 towers and an inhib and 3 dragons. but your team was trying to end world hunger, you would know what it feels like to get the same -lp as your team. its crappy. but in the same situation you only get even half of the lp loss because it recognizes your effort. you will feel much better about the system as a whole.

KazaashiApr 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

spamming the wards might happen. and then some people might think if im dropping them anyway might as well use them better. encourage buying trinket upgrades. even badly placed wards can be useful. and unless you are sight stoning 40 times on the base plate. dropping 20 wards a game some are going to be positive for your team.

It will. People will always attempt to exploit a system for the maximum gain.

exactly you have 0 control over your team. and thusly about how you climb the elo ladder. at times it seems very random. However, you do over yourself. but you get punished or rewarded based on the team. if you had an aspect of reward/punishment associated with what you do, it would feel better even if you lost.

Losses don't make me feel bad. I understand that 40% of my games are unwinnable due to AFKs/Trolls/DCs/Feeders. I also understand that 40% of my games will be wins due to those people on the other team. I look to that other 20% of games that I will have a meaningful impact on and make sure that impact is positive.

If you have ever been that guy that went 20/3/10, dropped 30 wards, took 5 towers and an inhib and 3 dragons. but your team was trying to end world hunger, you would know what it feels like to get the same -lp as your team. its crappy. but in the same situation you only get even half of the lp loss because it recognizes your effort. you will feel much better about the system as a whole.

Unfortunately, the system isn't there to make you feel good. It is there to Rank you based on skill level.

Mr HyddeApr 1, 20151 votes

You'd think that however the system isn't measuring YOUR skill its measuring the TEAM'S skill. win or lose as a group.

As has stated many times before the elo rating system is designed for single unit skill determination, it works for pre-made teams because the team of 5(or 3) is a unit. this unit won or lost. In soloq it is lacking as your team is consisting from somewhere between 3-5 units. and if any of those units plays poorly or significantly below what is expected of that division it punishes the other units.

red panda zApr 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That is really well thought out and you hit a lot of things that are important to winning a game. My biggest question is, What problem are you trying to solve? Doesn't a win mean that you were successful in some, if not, all of the points above?

Do you deserve to climb in Ranking if you have the highest CS, KDA, and Objective Participation, but lose games due to pushing too hard, losing a teamfight, and the enemy team pushed for a last minute comeback. Do you deserve to climb if, in getting that awesome KDA and CS, you starved the rest of your team? There are a million things in this game that affects weather you win or lose other than your KDA, CS, and objective participation.

You make some very valid points... but here's how I see things: Yes, maybe at the end of the day, it was you that make the fatal mistake. However, If you're consistently getting healthy amounts of CS, a healthy KDA, actively working on objectives and other points all in every game, then I'd argue you're doing a lot of things right. "What if Jax does nothing but push top all lane when we need him?" Chances are, if someone's tunnel vision is granting them one benefit, like tower pushing, then they are likely missing out on other bonuses.

Each bonus is not meant to be a high number of LP, maybe 5 at the most, others could even cap at a boost lower than that like 3. Yes, people can spam wards at the end of the match or tunnel vision objectives, but that won't be enough to neutralize a loss. Exact numbers would take a long amount of testing to see just how different bonuses would react with players in games.

Also, make a note that the bonuses aren't for whoever has the highest CS or best KDA. It's about what your score was like. At 37 minutes, what was your CS? How many wards did you place and at what times during the match? How many objectives did you work towards? No these are not perfect ways to identify what kind of skill you have... but if you are accomplishing many goals on a regular basis across most of your games, then I'd assume you are actively working on team fights, that the games you won are games that you contributed a lot to, and that your presence did a number to tip the scale in your team's favor.

The bonuses I listed are just examples of what could be used. In reality, I think we could go for many more bonuses and punishments, all focused on small things with small numbers so that it takes a lot more than spamming wards in the last 30 seconds on the match to get you a neutralized LP during a loss. It's not about galavanting through the ranks and making it easy for everyone to be diamond 1, it's about acknowledging the value of the individual player. Maybe you still lose LP, but because you've done well warding, you farmed well early on, you didn't die... maybe you lose less LP... 8 instead of 17. If you're doing well enough, then 2 victories and 1 defeat will count more towards your progress.

KazaashiApr 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You make some very valid points... but here's how I see things: Yes, maybe at the end of the day, it was you that make the fatal mistake. However, If you're consistently getting healthy amounts of CS, a healthy KDA, actively working on objectives and other points all in every game, then I'd argue you're doing a lot of things right. "What if Jax does nothing but push top all lane when we need him?" Chances are, if someone's tunnel vision is granting them one benefit, like tower pushing, then they are likely missing out on other bonuses.

Each bonus is not meant to be a high number of LP, maybe 5 at the most, others could even cap at a boost lower than that like 3. Yes, people can spam wards at the end of the match or tunnel vision objectives, but that won't be enough to neutralize a loss. Exact numbers would take a long amount of testing to see just how different bonuses would react with players in games.

Also, make a note that the bonuses aren't for whoever has the highest CS or best KDA. It's about what your score was like. At 37 minutes, what was your CS? How many wards did you place and at what times during the match? How many objectives did you work towards? No these are not perfect ways to identify what kind of skill you have... but if you are accomplishing many goals on a regular basis across most of your games, then I'd assume you are actively working on team fights, that the games you won are games that you contributed a lot to, and that your presence did a number to tip the scale in your team's favor.

The bonuses I listed are just examples of what could be used. In reality, I think we could go for many more bonuses and punishments, all focused on small things with small numbers so that it takes a lot more than spamming wards in the last 30 seconds on the match to get you a neutralized LP during a loss. It's not about galavanting through the ranks and making it easy for everyone to be diamond 1, it's about acknowledging the value of the individual player. Maybe you still lose LP, but because you've done well warding, you farmed well early on, you didn't die... maybe you lose less LP... 8 instead of 17. If you're doing well enough, then 2 victories and 1 defeat will count more towards your progress.

I agree with all of what you are saying, but I feel like the current system does a good job of accounting for all of these things. All that matters in the end is if the enemies Nexus goes boom before your's does.

1 thing that I think will be a problem with the proposed change:

If you have a bad game and lose, the system punishes you by subtracting points from you. Since you lost the game, chances are, you had bad CS, KDA, and Objective Control. How would it feel to, on top of losing ~10 LP, to lose another 10-20LP, just because you had a bad game/bad team/AFK/DC and were starved for income? That will crush most peoples spirit very quickly.