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The state of Talon

12BloodyWings·1/18/2015, 6:16:46 PM·34 votes·3,935 views

Ok. So yes, I am a Talon main who is still quite upset from the silence removal. I still play him very often, and i do admit that he still has one hell of a burst combo. However, i feel that he doesn't really "counter" any mages anymore, and that's what he was well known for. He's more of a suicide bomber than an assassin who can single out a target who is out of position. What I'm asking for is a compensation buff of something like Kass's Q that interrupts channeled spells. This way he still has counter play to everyone but still has that assassin feeling where he can interrupt mages such as Malz Kat and Fiddles for example, mages that he was intended to counter since he was released. Imagine him jumping on any of the 3. Fiddles will instantly fear him, Malz will eat him alive, kat will just ult. Not to mention his early game is horrible and gets poked out by every mid in the game. There really is no reason to pick him over any other assassin even if the matchup is favourable. Thank you

49 Comments

Zair Umbras1/18/2015, 7:01:37 PM22 votes

Ever since the removal of his E, Talon has been shoved into a niche where he really doesn't have a place. He's obviously supposed to be mid, but he doesn't have the same kind of sustained poke or defensive abilities as the other melee assassins. He's got the burst and we all know that. He's still one of the BIGGEST bursting champions, though he's also still got huge mana problems unlike other melee assassins, mainly because most of them don't use mana. The one that does, Fizz, is able to compensate himself slightly for his mana problems by getting a Lichbane. Normally, I'd say 'Well, maybe we should do Trinity', but Trinity doesn't scale the same way a Lich does and is sooooo much more expensive.

Making his E interrupt would let him at least allow him to be of use if he doesn't get wildly fed and/or his enemies buy pinks/oracle lens.

Ginny1/18/2015, 8:52:12 PM10 votes

"Cutthroat" slows by 99% instead of silencing.

Wow.

hyeet1/19/2015, 1:31:17 AM5 votes

Better passive, current one does fuckall

Fadedpf1/18/2015, 11:26:04 PM5 votes

Talon is very healthy in my opinion, its not easy to get fed. He cant dive you every 3 seconds like Zed . And yes he has mana and cant 100 to 0 a mage without being fed. The only REAL way they could buff him is lower cooldowns or mana costs. He is super strong, he either goes in and bursts you and someone else. Or dies if he cant use his ult to escape. Talon is a cool dude, lower his mana or cooldowns. We dont want more Zeds, Fizz, Leblanc... etc

Blainezy1/18/2015, 9:20:56 PM4 votes

I think just even a slight reduction to his E cooldown would even be useful. That can at least avoid some major spells like Ahri's charm, Syndra's stun, Veigar's stun, etc. And maybe reducing the mana cost of his W because I find myself out of mana fairly quickly when I play him. Even if I'm not spamming W for CS.

Sammystorm1/19/2015, 6:05:14 AM4 votes

Talon's problem is that he falls into two categories.

Category a: Fed and destroys everything.

Category b: Not fed and is useless.

Now this is important because if you make his laning phase too strong he just dumps over all other mid laners every single time. If you make it too weak he doesn't do anything. He honestly probably just needs a rework so he can have counterplay well ahead but be useful well behind. If you buff him it will just increase his chance of stomping everything. Which is not healthy. Nerf him you increase his chance of being useless.

CandyPuffs1/19/2015, 12:56:25 AM3 votes

I've always felt he was supposed to be the AD version of LeBlanc. A sort of "Blow you up in under 1 second" type. If he can get the ball rolling, he's definitely solid, but I think his laning phase is too harsh. Meanwhile, Zed is offered a solid laning phase and being pseudo-resourceless. He's outclassed both inside and outside his niche. Course riot will never give him any love because his play style won't make any sick highlight reels.

Killer of Poros1/18/2015, 11:52:37 PM3 votes

They need to give him a way to fight back without risking his entire neck for a single minion if hes not ahead. He should interrupt channels with his e and the damage amp should be given a bit of a look at since its not even noticeable until you've maxed it. His passive also needs to changed to something that fits more of his play style and not just extra damage on aa that is barely relevant for the first few minutes.

aaronconlin1/19/2015, 8:42:01 AM3 votes

Since his nerf I've seen jungle talon have more success than mid lane talon

Blade of Justic1/18/2015, 9:28:14 PM2 votes

Solution for the "counter" dilemma: Cutthroat cancels all channels.

Thoughts?

Painted Celt1/19/2015, 12:52:52 AM2 votes

Honestly, I think Talon is the bar that other assassins should be balanced around. Even as-is, he can still do his job well enough to be a massive benefit to his team. I am always happy to have a Talon on my team. He might not be on par with assassins like Zed, Akali, or Fizz, but I think this is more a case of those champions being imbalanced.

I do agree that the slow doesn't really fit with the ability name "cutthroat" though. Perhaps Talon's burst could be slowed down somehow (shift some damage into Q's bleed DOT?) in which case he could probably afford a 0.5 second silence (just long enough to mess up his opponent's combo). If it's not possible for Talon to have some sort of silence reinstated, then the ability should probably have its name changed... By the way, his ability demonstration video on the site still shows him silencing.

littledeuce1/19/2015, 1:29:18 AM2 votes

Talon Nerf this pussy

Scrumm1/19/2015, 2:09:40 AM2 votes

I agree with you as well, however i'm glad i don't see talon banned anymore besides when i'm target banned... before the removal i had to switch being my accounts soooo many times :(

fromdusktilldawn1/19/2015, 6:42:54 AM2 votes

Personally, I think that 99% slow that lasts for 0.25 s is no good, they should change it to something that is more reasonable. He already has a slow on his rake and the slows don't stack .__. (if you land a W and an E they should snare you with a 100% slow I'm not even kidding) I think, however, he should get a mana buff. Laning phase is difficult for him, he shouldn't have to spend money on the crystalline flask that they added to his build when other ad assassins can build an ad item first thing. Sure, you can start with sword or dorans blade (I've seen this done, I don't see the point of building blade and only getting 1 pot when you can build sword and get 3 for more sustain since you are melee) but versus zed or yas, he has to back a lot sooner.

Another thing is, his invisiblity (R) doesn't cancel channel ults on him. Kat, Zed, etc. can still ult him while he is in stealth (although I think Wu and Vel ults are fine, just move out of the way .__. and how Kat ult does so much damage to you in shorter than the amount of time you can actually be able to run away is ridiculous) His stealth is also cancelled by pinks and sweepers so he really has no way of getting out once he goes all in if those items are got (but you can just pick on squishies yes?). I think he should at least be able to cancel channel ults (excluding malz, ww since you are suppressed). That will help bring him back to the anti-mage he was supposed to be.

I've also wondered for a long time, why nerf Talon's silence when Fiddle's, Kass', LB's lasted so much longer?

Rebonack1/19/2015, 7:06:05 PM2 votes

Talon's issue is that he falls somewhere between Pantheon and Zed in terms of his ability to disengage from a fight after dropping his combo. He can't just GTFO like Zed does, but he's not quite as All-In as Pantheon is, either.

I think the safest thing to do with Talon would be to give him a new Innate that's actually useful, give him his Silence back, and then dramatically lower BOTH the damage and the cooldown on his Ult so that he would be able to reasonably use his combo twice over the course of a Team Fight, potentially even make his Ult refresh on kill/assist.

So instead of Talon dropping his combo and then being a lump, allow him to use it to jump in and then back off while stealthed before jumping back in again once his abilities come off cooldown. Making him less 'lolkillyouinstantly' would allow him to get his silence back while allowing a greater degree of counter-play against him.

Orders1/18/2015, 11:17:01 PM2 votes

The cutthroat should stop channels, much like Kassadin's Q.

Maybe his cutthroat can reset after he gets a kill? (not assists, though)

OR, Cutthroat goes on a shorter cooldown if he doesn't target a champion.

SexyTaylorSwift1/20/2015, 10:24:08 PM1 votes

I hate Talon but I think he needs to interrupt channels. You mention being feared by Fiddles. Talon used to counter Fiddles soooo hard. Now, if Talon jumps on you, you just click drain and he can't do anything about it.

You aren't alone, though. Fiddles has been nerfed pretty badly too. Then there's Sona. Those are just the recent ones. Meanwhile, Thresh LeeSin.

TriumphantReaper1/19/2015, 3:06:28 PM1 votes

My friend came up with a super cool idea for his e the example was the 4th hokage from naruto and how he teleports. Itd be like you throw a knife skill shot and if it hits you can take it to the person like lee sin q but if you can take it itll silence for 1 second and give dmg amp. That way we still have a silence but the enemy has more of a chance to react . and for talooooon to make more fancy play potential stuff. Last i checked the insta clickable silences is what riot disliked.

Stephenizgod1/19/2015, 7:21:36 AM1 votes

Hmm its tough for me to agree because my friend almost always destroys his opponent as Talon. I know this is just one person, but when he does well its almost like the rest of the team doesnt matter other then to be there so he doesnt get focused (lately he has been trying new builds or just not even trying, but when he is trying it is just sad for the other team). His take on it is he doesn't counter anyone anymore and you need to play twice as smart than normal but overall he is just as strong if not stronger when used correctly.

Auryiel1/18/2015, 11:20:02 PM1 votes

In need of a rework The end

12BloodyWings1/19/2015, 1:29:08 AM1 votes

Glad to see some thoughts. I do agree that his laning phase is weak and could be buffed, but I think the aspect of him being able to counter and interrupt mages is more important. Riot won't buff both and i really hate seeing someone laugh at me while they teleport right in front of my face.

H1N1 Swain Flu1/19/2015, 1:36:03 AM1 votes

Lisha shows up in her sexy PJ's and gives Michael "Imaqtpie" Santana the "Sex Glare" and ask "Baby, do you want to go to bed with me?". Devastated, Imaqtpie shakes his head and starts to cry. "Didnt you see that Kalista play I did today? How can I ever get my donger raised after that "Play"

cshakes1/19/2015, 3:00:02 PM1 votes

For those who really want to play Talon currently, here's a fun alt build my friend made in Ranked 5s: http://matchhistory.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUN1/1078749381/37586010?tab=overview (The moral of that game: don't pick Varus into Thresh. The enemies will just pick Vi or something equally horrible.)

Conus251/19/2015, 3:03:19 AM1 votes

The slow is useless and a silence on the q would be a better compensation than that useless e slow.