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Why (most) people complain about Sejuani's nerf.

KaisadiIIa·3/18/2015, 4:05:14 PM·31 votes·3,298 views

A quick post for all those people who somehow think people on the boards are Lee Sin haters for whatever reason I can't understand.

The point is not that Sejuani is or isn't overpowered (I don't think she's overpowered, but it's OK for me if you think she is, and these nerfs will not affect her, they will just prevent FotM-players from playing her).

The point is not that Lee Sin is or isn't overpowered (I don't think he's overpowered either, still he has a very toxic kit, but that's another topic).

The point is that Sejuani has been nerfed as fast as she became strong (literally, the patch was last Thursday), meanwhile, people has been complaining about Lee Sin: he has no exploitable weaknesses, he can compete decently at every situation, he was too strong compared to other junglers a month ago, he has awkwardly high base stats), and RIOT has pretended that nothing happened.

Champions like Rengar or Xerath has been reworked for similar reasons that Lee Sin (they were not OP, but their kit was toxic because X). And, in fact, RIOT wanted to rework Lee Sin and, guess what? When people complained, they reverted his rework in a "ok, ok, I won't touch this, please don't kill me" mood. But they didn't care about Cassio mains (for example) when they complained about her rework.

AND BEFORE SOMEONE COMES HERE TELLING THAT LEE SIN'S KIT IS OK AND RIOT DOESN'T THINK HE'S A PROBLEM: Just look at this.

"I love his kit. I hate his raw power. He's only "balanced" because insanity like Elise and Vi exist." "Actually, when we nerf Lee, it causes a HUGE uproar. If I wasn't worried about what people thought we'd nerf him months ago"

These things have been said by Morello, not by a random RIOTER from another department.

tl;dr: The point is that people is sick of seeing some champions being insta-nerfed while other champions are blatantly ignored even if their issues are similar.

70 Comments

Icepaw3/18/2015, 4:16:22 PM15 votes

Thats because only 45% of the players that play him are skilled enough. The other half are wannabe kids that think Lee = instawin beacuse diamods can do tricky shit on streams. His kit has no weak points on skilled players, thats what you compare it against.

thinking man3/18/2015, 7:35:48 PM6 votes

The reason why these forums are largely a joke is because most of the people discussing balance here are akin to a horse wearing blinders.

Every single buff to the jungle to other junglers is a nerf to Lee Sin. He has never truly been anything other than picked often in solo queue and while I don't really watch the LCS often anymore, a lot of my friends are saying that Lee Sin isn't really a problem there.

Although he was pretty OP before the E nerf, basically removing his only form of dueling power hit him incredibly hard. He has to play as a pseudo-assassin since although he is numerically high, his sustained fighting is garbage since he has no real innate tankiness. He is a comparatively garbage duelist now, and the massive hate boner that so many people have for Lee Sin basically ensures that he will be powercreeped to the point of garbage. Any meaningful nerfs to him would make him near-unplayable. It does not take a direct nerf to make a champion less broken.

Lee Sin has also never dominated solo queue while being a good LCS pick.

Oleandervine3/18/2015, 8:07:46 PM6 votes

I think if Riot just treated the Lee Sin fan base like all of their other champion fan bases, he would get the meaningful balances he needs. When they reworked Skarner, Karma, Cassiopeia, and Veigar there were and still are people deeply upset about those reworks, and Riot essentially gave the fan base the finger and said deal with it. There's generally been a rapid decline in communication about the issues since, and Rioters like Stashu, who made quite a few promises about Cassiopeia if people disliked her passive, have disappeared and numbers were thrown at her until the FotM players decided she was OP and therefore fun to play. So yeah, if they treat Lee Sin's fans like they have all these other fans, more people will be overall happy and those players will just have to suck it and learn to play him again.

The Blue Rooster3/19/2015, 10:33:05 AM3 votes

For me, the problem is, Sejuani hasn't been viable for a LOOOOONG time. Yet now that she is, she is immediately nerfed. Without Riot just waiting to see if people figured out a counter-play for her. She (and all tank junglers) has been out of the spotlight so long I can't help but think noone has had time since her return to actually re-develop counter-play. They're nerfing her on far too small a test size,

You need to allow time for balances and counter-balances to proliferate in any sample size.

ThePlasticSpork3/19/2015, 4:10:50 AM3 votes

Most people aren't complaining about her nerfs - pretty much any reasonable person thinks it's fine that she's getting nerfed.

The boards don't represent the majority.

manbearswine3/18/2015, 11:48:51 PM2 votes

I don't think old xerath was reworked because he was toxic,I think it was because he just didn't have a playerbase.

SanKakU3/18/2015, 4:14:16 PM1 votes

What's so insane about Elise anyway? Nidalee and Gnar are better, aren't they? Vi is crazy strong, sure, and takes far less skill than Blitzcrank, but she doesn't have as much raw damage as him. Overall she's probably too good for competitive scene, but I don't see why they can't just nerf both her and Lee Sin. I like the knock back for Lee Sin, why not add functionality to the new Bard portal so you can push people through the portals? That would be fun. Then you can nerf him in other ways because "hey guys we indirectly buffed him by adding synergy with other champs" and the people that want nerfs will be happy. I saw a video showing that Bard's teleport won't do things like let Skarnar take an enemy through the portal, which logically leads me to conclude that Lee Sin is also limited in that fashion, not able to force the enemy through, but I think they should change that fact and then Bard would be a better combination champ than he is now. This would make drafting phase more important when the characters are weaker individually than when with certain champs that make them specifically better.

Jarvan IV is a champ that combos well with both Gnar and Vayne, so why not help Bard combo well with Skarnar and Lee Sin (Vayne would apply here as well) and Jayce I guess?

Sammystorm3/18/2015, 11:47:16 PM1 votes

However people complaining for lee sin nerfs are kind of hypocritical in this case because a lot of complaints center around his damage mobility and tankyness. Sejuani right now is a little less mobile but his way better damage and gets tankyier.

AetherKingdom3/18/2015, 4:12:37 PM1 votes

Yea lee sin's been rocking that sub 45-48% win rate for years. dominating like fuck

Nagirah3/19/2015, 9:49:44 AM1 votes

"Wait I'm not supposed to get a sick slow even if I miss my ult? How the hell am I going use my freelo sej to carry myself to challenjour now?"

The nerfs were very small and barely do anything to good Sejuani players. She has a winrate nearing 60% which always indicates there is a problem. Also to you complainers! Please stop bringing Lee Sin into everything. I agree he is too strong and needs rework/nerfs, but the way boards cry about him makes me unable to take his issue seriously anymore. He is literally nothing more than a joke to bash the balance team with.

Digivolve3/18/2015, 4:22:15 PM1 votes

yea, it's kind of crappy.

Also, I would suggest proof reading your OP, it has a ton of errors and it's kind of hard to read.

That's not an insult just a suggestion.