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Riot has changed in a bad direction

Dakuda330··127 votes·47,188 views

So today I decided I would look through some posts in the gameplay board and I'm not too happy about the results.

   I'll give some backstory before I say whats on my mind. I've played this game since 2012 and it is currently 2017. I have over 3000 games played. that's a long time to play a single game and a whole lot of games, and so i've seen this company progress for a long time, I've enjoyed this game very much during this time and typically I like the changes to the overall game. I thought the new bushes when they were implemented were pretty good, and I loved the new updated map that we have now, I loved that champs were getting reworks and I loved when they implemented the change in champion costs when new champs came out. But lets get into the complaint now

 My favorite thing about Riot was, They were very involved in the community. You would often see their comments in posts, The post could've been about how they don't like new changes or the post could've been some sort of fun idea concept that a player would come up with, and they would typically respond, sometimes it would be funny and other times it might not have been something we wanted to hear but at least they gave us something. I don't want to see anymore videos or post saying "we hear you, and we're listening" because when they make a change it clearly shows that someone isn't listening to the communities cries for help.

When I went through a bunch of posts today on the forum I noticed that when I saw posts from 2 years ago or so there would be upwards of 4 Rioters on one post and not every post was answered but a lot of them were (note: this is only from the new forum that they updated not from the old forum before this one) But when i saw posts from a month ago or 6 months ago, even with 400 upvotes or 200 upvotes, there were no riot comments. I understand that not all posts need a Rioter to comment on them because not all of them are intended for Riot but for the community to see. 

Whenever I see Rioters responding to critical post its typically an argumentative approach and not their friendly we understand and everything. It seems like how blizzards system has been working for a few years now where its a you're a player and your opinion is wrong and Riot or my opinion itself is right. It feels more like Riot is intentionally ignoring its players cries for help as blizzard has been doing in the past few years even though the company is much younger than blizzard. Its a pretty terrible thing in the eyes of a player that has been supporting this company over the past 5 years.

My hopes are that Riot as a company addresses these issues with their current staff soon because if new players come in and see stuff like this Riots dreams of League being on top for a long time is going to come toppling down in the 7 years that this game has been public (not including the beta they had started in 2009). I don't want to see my favorite gaming company turn into something like blizzard after such a short period of time. I would like to see this young company realize its mistake and fix it before its too late and the game dies like World of Warcraft.

There are only so many things you can do to attempt so save a dying community before you become so desperate that you become sloppy and release content that the playerbase does not enjoy. I ask that you please take what I've said into consideration, and I ask that you do not make the same mistake that other companies have made because I don't want to see my favorite game die.

431 Comments

RiotRiot Cactopus173 votes

Hey Dakuda330. This might sound hard to believe, but even though we don't always respond, we actually do read the boards every day.

This is sort of taking it off-topic, but I think you're probably right that we don't really engage on the boards as much as we used to. Just to be super real with you, I guess I can share my thoughts about some problems we have with the boards:

First, the boards are really small compared to other English-language League communities. If you're just looking at these official boards, you might think the League community is tiny. But it's not. It's just that most players ignore the boards. Basically our policy when it comes to engaging with players is to go wherever players go, whether that's Discord, Twitter, Facebook, or whatever other League community pops up. We don't really care about controlling the community or trying to make our official boards the biggest community—we'd rather let players decide where to go and then join them as members there. I personally post on the League of Legends subreddit a lot. At any given point in time there's at least 30,000 people online simultaneously there. That dwarfs these boards by a lot.

One other thing I've been thinking about recently is that there are actually fundamental problems with these boards. The biggest is that there's almost no reason to go here unless you have a complaint about the game. Since we really do read everything on the boards, players with issues know they can come here and get their complaint seen. This has the unfortunate side effect of turning the boards into a super concentrated echo chamber of salt.

Just as an example, there's a poster in this thread who currently has 9 upvotes for saying "they turned a once fun game into a pile of dog shit designed to make them money, except now there isn't enough interest to actually make them any money." Compare that to the stuff you see on any other more-popular League community (like the subreddit) and it quickly becomes pretty obvious that this board is dominated by extreme opinions that don't actually reflect the feelings of the broader League community at all. So, even if we read it, we're not going to give comments or posts like that too much weight.

I'm curious about your opinions on this, OP: do you think we should have Rioters posting in every single thread in the boards? Or does it make sense for us to take our current "read everything, respond when it's really important" approach? Obviously I know how I feel about it, but I'd like to see your thoughts now that I've explained our perspective.

Very Hard Engage21 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Cactopus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4fAcHIyE,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-12-05T19:34:18.367+0000)

it quickly becomes pretty obvious that this board is dominated by extreme opinions that don't actually reflect the feelings of the broader League community at all. So, even if we read it, we're not going to give comments like that too much weight.

and theres the confirmation that riot knows everything already and has no need for us at all.

when riot wants our opinions they will give them to us.

"help us improve, and share your feedback" (5000 to 1 said they didn't like the latest change) - riot: lets keep it, we invested too much into it already. (cough blue essence and leveling cough)

RiotRiot Cactopus143 votes

Don't cut the quote in half to remove the context! When I said "comments like that" I was talking specifically about a comment that calls the game "dog shit." If you think that comment qualifies as feedback, I gotta disagree.

Tactrix13 votes

I'll stop calling it dog shit, when it stops being dog shit. Just like you'll start taking us seriously when the money stops flowing into your wallets. And if you think that my opinion doesn't reflect the majority of the community than it's obvious you really don't read the boards at all despite of what you claim.

HalcyonDweller60 votes

You are far too combative for Rioters to engage with. If you want them to talk to you, you should start by not treating them like dirt.

Also the boards is a small community. Compared to the league subreddit we are very small. So unless you look at the league subreddit and other places where the community speaks, you won't have an accurate view of what the majority of the community does believe. Looking only at the boards or looking primarily at the boards provides only a distorted view of the community's opinion.

Tactrix2 votes

I'm exactly as combative as is required, if they wanted a calm tame community they shouldn't have made an entire game based on killing people and destroying objectives. You can look anywhere you want the facts won't change, this game started off ok and got worse with every season until this one at which point it went from just pretty bad to dumpster fire.

Poolparty Sauron12 votes

What facts? Your opinion sorry but that doesnt pass as a fact.

Tactrix2 votes

What facts? Are you fucking blind? In just this discussion alone look at how many people actually agree with me. And this is JUST this discussion, this isn't even the boards, on the boards a good chunk of the posts are about unfair bans, a massive chunk is about unfair balance and BE, there's only 1/100 threads dedicated to anything that resembles anything being decent about this game.

VenomStrike3122 votes

You realize most of your comments are downvoted right? Most people don't agree with you.

Tactrix1 votes

Most sheeple don't agree with me. And if they did that would be terrifying.

HalcyonDweller28 votes

"Everyone who agrees with me is woke, everyone who disagrees with me is sheeple"

I hope you realize this is a self fulfilling loner tactic. If you call others sheeple for disagreeing with you then of course you aren't going to be respected, listened to, or agreed with. Not because your path is righteous, but because you just insulted them.

Not all paths least trodden are better. In some cases there are reasons why people don't take them.

HalcyonDweller39 votes

{quoted}

I'm exactly as combative as is required, if they wanted a calm tame community they shouldn't have made an entire game based on killing people and destroying objectives.

Nice deflection, please tell us more about how it's Riot's fault you act like a dick. /s

You can look anywhere you want the facts won't change, this game started off ok and got worse with every season until this one at which point it went from just pretty bad to dumpster fire.

When you present opinions as facts just because you like them and agree with them it becomes hard for people to take you seriously. Provide reasoning and analysis and people will be more inclined to listen to you.

Nik Nikerson26 votes

And why should anyone take a antagonistic, hyperbolic statement like that seriously? Maybe if you actually wanted to discuss things instead of fighting with people, you'd actually get a discussion.

Tactrix3 votes

There's nothing to discuss, this issue has been brought up endlessly by massive amounts of people, they don't give a fuck. So if it takes an antagonistic post for them to pay attention so be it.

HalcyonDweller28 votes

{quoted}

There's nothing to discuss,

Then why post at all? Are you here to solve problems? Or are you here to posture in front of everybody about how righteous you are?

Tactrix1 votes

Do you have a problem reading? Because I'd gladly spell it out in crayon for you, this topic has been discussed endlessly, they already know it, they just don't care. So it's my intent to bring to their attention just how useless their game has become without having to make a discussion about it because discussions about this have yielded 0 results, but feel free to keep "discussing it" and when nothing changes for the 8th year you can feel like you've accomplished something.

HalcyonDweller18 votes

{quoted}

Do you have a problem reading? Because I'd gladly spell it out in crayon for you, this topic has been discussed endlessly, they already know it, they just don't care. So it's my intent to bring to their attention just how useless their game has become without having to make a discussion about it because discussions about this have yielded 0 results, but feel free to keep "discussing it" and when nothing changes for the 8th year you can feel like you've accomplished something.

The more you insult people who disagree with you the less persuasive you become.

Being heard, listened to, etc. and reaching an understanding, or getting a problem solved... All of this is predicated on being able to complete a positive (or neutral at the bare minimum) interaction with the people you want to be heard by.

The only thing they will be able to understand from your comments is that you are dissatisfied with the game. That is all. Not why you are dissatisfied, not how you are dissatisfied, nor even what you want from the game and what would make it more fun for you.

When you refuse to engage with others reasonably, you lose the opportunity to be understood by them.

Simply acting combative and spewing hatred and bias, and railing against them, will do nothing to solve your problem.

Tactrix3 votes

I have engaged them reasonable for years, and apparently I have to repeat myself to you because you can't seem to figure out how to read, it doesn't work. It never has. It never will. In all the years I've talked to them reasonable they haven't listened once, in fact pretty much most of the reasonable community will back me up on this one, they don't care about how to make the game better, they just care about how to profit off of it.

HalcyonDweller19 votes

{quoted}

I have engaged them reasonable for years, and apparently I have to repeat myself to you because you can't seem to figure out how to read,

Perhaps I would have an easier time discerning the meaning of your words if you didn't waste half of them trying to imply that I am intellectually challenged or otherwise inferior to you. In my experience people are more apt to listen to me when I am kind to them instead of demeaning. Just a suggestion though.

it doesn't work. It never has. It never will. In all the years I've talked to them reasonable they haven't listened once, in fact pretty much most of the reasonable community will back me up on this one, they don't care about how to make the game better, they just care about how to profit off of it.

Feel free to speak for yourself, but do not claim to speak for the majority of the community. Others among us have had quite rewarding experiences interacting with Rioters, both on Meddler's Gameplay Thoughts posts, and in support tickets when suggesting ideas.

When you insist that your narrative is the true and correct one, and choose to ignore and dismiss others' experiences, you miss out on opportunities to benefit from what those others have learned. I highly recommend you try our method, we have had success with it in the past and it is a lot more cathartic than screeching bloody murder and then getting banned.

Edited for clarity.

Tactrix1 votes

[deleted]

HalcyonDweller13 votes

{quoted}

< Removed by moderation >

More power to you then. Just keep in mind, insulting people tends to distract them by making them angry, and it does little to draw attention to the real points you are trying to persuade them about.

My narrative is backed up by the boards, the fact that you choose to ignore this doesn't make my FACTS any less factual, it just makes you ignorant.

"Hey guys, the evidence exists, it is out there, just believe me."

There you go again doubling down and insisting you are right and insisting that we should just believe you. If you lack the patience to properly back up your claims, then why should anybody believe you? You have not presented evidence to support those claims, instead resorting to deflection and insults whenever anybody questions you about them.

Teridax6811 votes

{quoted}

See the truth is you're here crying about my evidence because you know it's true and I'm right, as where you can make up all your false hope beliefs all day long and it won't make them any more true.

But that's simply not the case here, Tactrix, and your replies have been both hysterically negative and completely delusional. Invoking "most of the community" or "the Boards" as somehow corroborating your opinions (what are your opinions anyway?) without mentioning so much as even a handful of evidence does not lend any credence to your point, and simply tries to turn the argument into a popularity contest, a contest you are, by the way, losing severely. At the end of the day, many of us are dissatisfied with the current state of League, frustrated with Riot because of a particular action they took, and so on, but throwing out insults and hyperbole about the game being "dog shit" achieves nothing. In fact, it achieves less than nothing, because as shown by Cactopus's posts here, this is exactly the kind of behavior that drives Riot off the Boards. If you want League to change for the better, express yourself in a manner that will actually generate positive change. Otherwise, don't come here at all.

EDIT: I messed up and didn't see this was the point at which comments stopped being nested. Apologies Halcyon, this was intended to be a reply to Tactrix. You're good. :)

Serious Death15 votes

I had to log in just to say this; you are an absolute moron of the worst kind. The kind that wants to force his ridiculous views which are completely out of touch with reality on a majority in the most agressive way. I rarely say this but people like you should be forbidden to express their opinion until they grow some basic common sense and empathy.

Tactrix1 votes

[deleted]

Serious Death13 votes

Oh so you are also 12 years old? This explains that. I delight in the idea of you looking back to this when you grow up and feeling like an idiot. I guess we all were there at some point though so don't feel too bad about it. :)

Very Hard Engage16 votes

hows about you post public polls (use the client) and if it hits a certain threshold ie 80% of the masses, you go ahead and do whatever it is they say. but you wont, and you will never, because it doesn't meet the wants of the oligarchy in charge.

RiotRiot Cactopus142 votes

_League of Legends News Alert! _

COMMUNITY VOTES TO MAKE ALL SKINS FREE. TEEMO DELETED FROM THE GAME.

Jmman18 votes

Maybe this comment right here is the reason.

I posted a honest reasoning but it not replied to.

Player x has an idea about gauging data from players and riot hyperboles is into being funny. Sure has some salt at the end. Most likely because he knows he won't be taken seriously by Riot.

Player X will now be salty at Riot.

Riot doesn't know why everyone is salty.

You realize you just proved him correct because you statement was condescending and hyper poled? Its cool because its worth the up votes right?????

RiotRiot Cactopus81 votes

Guys it’s okay to joke around and have fun. This is a forum about a video game.

4NoxiousHours13 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Cactopus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4fAcHIyE,comment-id=0006000000000001000100030000,timestamp=2017-12-05T21:46:50.587+0000)

Guys it’s okay to joke around and have fun. This is a forum about a video game.

I find it sad how you guys listen to a community within a site that isn't owned by Riot Games and give less attention to your own boards created by Riot Games.

CøCø39 votes

That is a terrible mentality to have. It should be encouraged to approach an audience where there is an audience. Right now the boards are dwarfed by the league subreddit. Why should they spend more time talking to a smaller portion of players when they can be talking to a much larger group of players and gathering data from a much larger sample size? I don't disagree they don't spend enough time on the boards, but criticizing them for reaching out to a larger audience is a terrible argument.

RiotMeddler85 votes

Where feedback's posted doesn't change the quality of that feedback.

I'm also pretty surprised to see you argue we should only pay attention to discussion on sites we administer, that feels like a really insular, potentially heavily biasing approach.

KoganeRyujin10 votes

I thought your reply was simple and good, basically showing how ridiculous the notion was. But I will say that even though "it's okay to joke around and have fun" you aren't really taking into account that there's a time and a place for everything, context matters. Everyone in this discussion is serious because it is a serious post about an issue that the player base has been very concerned about, and those who aren't shouldn't be given any attention at all. This might be a forum about a video game, but your video game is art, and art means something to people because it is a raw expression of self (thought, emotion, everything) that the artist can't show any other way. A game is a special type of art that people can interact with, allowing the player to connect with the vision of the creator, and thus connect with everyone else who has connected with that vision, I have made friends out of enemies after playing against and with them in League. A video game is more than just a game on a screen, it is art that touches peoples hearts and helps it develop in ways the individual never new they could.

l Communism l9 votes

I am going to chip in because he used humour in an instance where something like this should be common sense, and he's a better guy to just laugh it off than state the obvious truth.

LoL isn't the community's game, it is Riot's game. Name one game that gives the community power to vote for changes to the game and that is successful? Next, name one profession that performs better when they give their power over to the public instead of performing the task their own way? How would you feel having customers dictate what you do, how you do it and how fast it should be done?

The facts are that the people commenting/complaining here seldom have high quality products or content of their own, very few know the challenges in trying to make a successful product **AND **trying to please everyone.

People making such comments as in stick to your own boards, let the gamers vote, etc don't actually mean what they say, they say what coincides with what they desire. They say, let 80% of the community vote, but if the community votes for something they don't want, they will complain again, because that's all they can do. They won't create their own video game, with their own content and rules, then wait to see if it pays off.

Iota Theta27 votes

{quoted}

hows about you post public polls (use the client) and if it hits a certain threshold ie 80% of the masses, you go ahead and do whatever it is they say. but you wont, and you will never, because it doesn't meet the wants of the oligarchy in charge.

When did the majority believing/deciding something actually make it right?

Tactrix3 votes

Most of the time, do you not know how a democracy works?

Scarthcaroth29 votes

Democracy doesn't assure you that what is being voted for is right, it only assures you that the majority desires this kind of change irrespective of its validity.

Tactrix4 votes

So what do you think right is? Do you think that because you and 5 people deem something right and 500,000 deem it wrong it still makes you right? Right is determined by the majority, that's how we determined right in the first place. How did you think it got there?

Scarthcaroth38 votes

That is a logical fallacy. Argumentum ad populum aka it's correct because everyone thinks it is. But you know what? Everyone thought the earth was a flat disk that the sun and all other planets revolved around at some point. And just so a handful of people who believed it didn't turned out to be right and nowadays it's a foregone conclusion to accept it as being right.

See, being in the majority doesn't mean anything. It certainly doesn't mean you are right. It just means that people agree with you, even if you turn out to be completely wrong.

HowPlayGAEM5 votes

But that is the context.

You're saying these boards are tiny, English speaking, and full of criticism, making them irrelevant; you'd rather go on reddit or facebook where everyone sings high praises, or some Chinese forums since the majority of the playerbase is Chinese.

Just remember that surrounding yourself with blind fanboy yes-men doesn't work in the long run.

ModAcademy Kayn8 votes

That is not what they said. "Full of criticism" is not a blanket statement that you can apply to the entire boards. I've seen people argue for something, when they never read the original lore in the first place. I've seen people post a complaint about what Riot said, when they took the infomation from a friend, and not the actual source. For pete sake, someone complained about Ryze being in the tutorial, getting pretty high in upvotes, despite the fact he hasn't been in it for a while.

You can find criticism on the boards, no matter where you go, but you have to check with other places to see just how much of a majority really dislikes/likes a change. If someone doesn't like a skin on the boards, cross check with Reddit, Facebook, Discord, see how common/uncommon that similar thought is.

RiotSparkle13 votes

Agree with what you're saying (that not all of Boards is criticism) but will also add that no one said that being critical makes Boards irrelevant either. Even the critical stuff is stuff we listen to and is relevant.

We are specifically talking about why Rioters don't talk more on Boards. Just because we listen instead of talking doesn't mean we don't value Boards or think it's irrelevant. There's a logical leap there that I don't agree with.

Scully13318 votes

[deleted]

RiotSparkle19 votes

No one is discarding you, or ignoring you or saying we don't care. You do not need to tell me how passionate Boards is, I get it. I care about what Boards thinks, and I will post that on every comment if I hafta because it's true.

This conversation is about why Rioters don't talk more here though. There's a difference between listening to your opinion and creating a good space for conversation. I can see how that distinction might be nuanced, but I honestly want to see more Rioters here so I think it's an important distinction to discuss & understand.

Teridax687 votes

But then if the Boards are not a good space for conversation between players and Rioters, which space is? Is there even any space you'd consider good for that purpose right now?

RiotSparkle25 votes

Honestly? Personally I would prefer we make Boards the best space for these conversations, together. That's why I came to post in this topic. I feel like the only way we can do that is if we're open and honest about how we can, as a community, foster and cultivate a good environment for discussion, instead of just for listening.

Boards is hungry for more player/Rioter interactions and I want to make that happen, so I wanna be forthright about how I think we can do that. Call me an optimist or sappy or whatever, idc. <3

LostFr0st7 votes

Step 1: Ban the word "you" from the boards. Step 2: Watch those that need it for accusations revolt. [slayer-pantheon-popcorn] Step 3: Through fighting they eventually bond. Step 4: Get more popcorn. It'll take a while to fight it out but it's worth.

RiotSparkle16 votes

Hahaha. You're joking but you're also kinda of hitting on something important there. As a shameless plug, I did write up a comment on how to form a good critique in another post. It's actually kinda essentially what you said haha

LostFr0st4 votes

O wow. I guess I missed that one^^" Thank you for the link.

I had some very smart teachers way back in High School that taught me very similarly (specifically Physics and History class). They stressed and drilled that the foundation of discussion was mutual respect.

If that rose to become an unspoken code on the boards it would be an invaluable force to drive fruitful discussions. Lets work hard to see that future >:)

Xonra5 votes

There used to be a good space here for conversation, but you guys at Riot went MIA for about a 2 year stretch. We used to meme and joke and talk and have CONVERSATIONS, instead of mostly one-sided "this is what is happening, cause there are less of you" arguments. The boards used to love "Red Names", then the majority of them abandoned us (in the literal sense), when "The Boards" popped up after old GD. People started getting resentful and quite bluntly, hurt feelings over it, to whatever degree.

Now it feels like "us vs them" and I hate that, but that is what it is. Then when someone comes in and says "yeah well, you guys are less important cause there are less of you, so we talk elsewhere", when THIS used to be the place to talk, and it isn't now because Riot stopped being here and started being other places more...well that is a real kick in the bollocks.

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