Riot, I implore you not to go through with these Tahm Kench changes on the PBE.

THE RlVER KlNG·7/7/2019, 7:19:56 PM·17 votes·6,421 views

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw these changes first show up on Surrender@20.

https://www341.lunapic.com/do-not-link-here-use-hosting-instead/155858091864010709?1687020859

This isn't just a nerf to Tahm Kench in the top lane, it's straight utter removal. It's murder. For one, it's a straight damage nerf. His Q doesn't apply his passive anymore, which also doesn't stack, meaning that his first auto attack technically deals more damage I guess but everything he does after that is completely worse. You want to know the kicker? There's one thing the PBE doesn't mention - not only has his Q's damage been completely neutered, it doesn't apply a passive stack anymore! Tahm Kench has to land 3 auto attacks as a fat, enormous, immobile hitbox in order to use his empowered spells. I was flabbergasted when I first hopped into the PBE and was landing Q's to see that they didn't add a passive stack. It was an alien experience. Imagine playing Braum and your Q doesn't apply Concussive Blows, or if Kai'sa W didn't apply Plasma. It's a totally unnecessary nerf that comes across as cruel and vindictive. Chasing, already difficult vs mobile targets, is now 10,000x harder when you've lost a primary means of applying stacks. Not only that, you've lost probably 2/3s of your damage in any sort of 1 on 1 scenario with the double passive/Q nerf. Add in the removal of enemy Devour's utility just for shits and giggles and you have what amounts to not just a nerf, but an overly harsh and rather vitriolic removal of a champion from a lane.

Where am I supposed to play this champion? Pro play has completely destroyed him. Ally Devour is a ghost of its formal self. It's reached the point where the only use of is pre-emptively devouring before predictable skillshots. The crippling slow and grounding mechanic you introduced earlier in June makes it often a detriment to you AND the person you ate when you're being ganked or in the middle of a teamfight. It's still powerful enough in coordinated play, yeah, but absolute trash 9 times out of 10 in Solo Queue. Support Tahm Kench feels like an uphill chore, and it isn't fun at all anymore.

The only solace was that you buffed solo lane Kench (which historically was hot dogshit). Now that's gone. Is Tahm Kench annoying to play against? Yes. He is. But he also falls off like a rock past laning phase once his target selection loses its potency and struggles in a lot of matchups, like versus GP and other Juggernauts. I don't even mind a nerf! He's shot up in popularity especially in high elo and he does have some unhealthy play patterns in how you're supposed to deal with him.

I think that the right way to nerf solo Kench is to definitely address his oppressive Q slow, which these changes did by reverting the buff. I also think that removing the mana restore on enemy Devour could be good by emphasizing how powerful it is no matter who you eat. Lowering his base and scaling health all do wonders to reduce his early power and even a little bit of his damage without completely gutting his ability to fight lane opponents. The E changes are whatever, I've grown used to Riot just throwing shit in the air with regards to that spell just to see how it lands. Less shield, more sustain seems a fine tradeoff, although it really really really hurts later in the game to have a worse shield less often. Tahm Kench is supposed to be tanky, and over the years Riot has just repeatedly nerfed his main source of tankiness time after time.

Overall these changes seem not only excessively harsh but just....unnecessary? You're straight up removing a champion from a lane when common consensus seems that Tahm Kench is healthier for both Solo Queue and pro play as a solo laner provided he has clearer weaknesses in laning phase. Riot, I beg of you to not force these through to live and shelve them as you have for the Wukong and Teemo changes. I hate the way this new Tahm Kench feels and plays and all that you are doing is removing the ability to play him in a solo lane, which is destructive and unfair, especially considering how many times you have repeatedly gutted support Kench. Nerf him, yes, but please stop removing mechanics from his kit and please do not completely neuter his damage.

58 Comments

Soul Dealer7/7/2019, 7:27:09 PM12 votes

At this point I say these changes are fine. Anything to help the state of top lane is ok by me.

Darkdemon6537/7/2019, 7:34:21 PM7 votes

While I am against destroying champions as a general rule, when those champions have bad designs, they should be destroyed until their designs are fixed. In terms of why he's able to be in top lane, Tahm is one of those champions.

bronze smurf697/7/2019, 8:00:44 PM7 votes

TLDR: I'm a Tahm Kench main and i don't want him to be nerfed.

Get off your high horse. The damn frog deserves whatever is coming. If that fucker is unfair in the top lane, then he deserves to be nerfed unfairly (assuming they even hit hard enough which i hope they do). I've played vs this cancer. Had to afk before i lose my mind and go insane.

Solutate Khaz7/7/2019, 9:56:06 PM6 votes

The frog isn't as strong as people make him out to be, sad that they're going to murder him this hard..

Alzon7/7/2019, 7:28:45 PM4 votes

At least they’re buffing his E sustain, but the roughest part of these changes is going to be how Tongue Lash no longer applies OR refreshes An Acquired Taste. There goes all dueling potential. The removal on stun is fine, as it prevents Q>W stunlock. The cooldown increase is fine, since it also decreases stunlock. The removal of passive damage on abilities hurts, but is acceptable - it removes poking as a viable option and only leaves all-ins. The shield nerf in favor of a regen buff is also fine - it especially helps support Kench. But it’s going to be nearly impossible to devour enemy champions now, unless they’re dumb enough to let you OR you have an item like Righteous Glory to reengage after being peeled off.

OPNoobCrusher7/8/2019, 1:40:00 PM2 votes

OP: fine nerf him he was broken but atleast keep his kit

League Boards: not cute girl not amused. [zombie-nunu-bummed]

Tahminatrix 7/7/2019, 8:29:00 PM2 votes

They need to just turn him back into a scaling champion, that's how his kit was originally intended when he was a solo laner.

He had to put points into his ultimate to get his damage and only at the last point (lvl 16) was he strong.

Also if tahm`s q doesn't apply acquired taste, it should definitely be reported in bug reports until riot finally puts its in the patch notes or fixes it.

hrooza dota 7/8/2019, 2:22:21 AM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4akB1iOI,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-07T19:19:56.116+0000) Where am I supposed to play this champion?

summoner 11

Overall these changes seem not only excessively harsh but just....unnecessary? You're straight up removing a champion from a lane when common consensus seems that Tahm Kench is healthier for both Solo Queue and pro play as a solo laner provided he has clearer weaknesses in laning phase. Riot, I beg of you to not force these through to live and shelve them as you have for the Wukong and Teemo changes. I hate the way this new Tahm Kench feels and plays and all that you are doing is removing the ability to play him in a solo lane, which is destructive and unfair, especially considering how many times you have repeatedly gutted support Kench. Nerf him, yes, but please stop removing mechanics from his kit and please do not completely neuter his damage.

tahm is not healthy in solo lane, he simply have hyper kill rate in game making any enemy laner life miserable even our beloved rektaton does not do that to many laners [and he got bullied by tahm anyway] tho the Q not applying passive can be a bug and you have to report it to riot since its not in the planned changes

TonytheGardener7/8/2019, 12:52:14 PM2 votes

Tahm deserves this. I've seen ludicrous games where Tahm's have steamrolled teams because he was utterly unkillable, while doing massive damage, after having already put the enemy through like 5 seconds of oppressive CC.

He doesn't require high skill to do all this, and games have completely run away because a Tahm got a kill or two in lane. It's unhealthy.

Ralanr7/8/2019, 3:27:21 PM2 votes

Honestly I’d rather them just put a timer on how often he can eat an enemy. His devour makes trading with him in top utter hell, but removing the ability to apply a stack on his Q really does make him unable to support.

I’m fine with Tahm working in support.

cruerider7/9/2019, 7:09:21 AM2 votes

That should've been done a long time ago. This champ deserves a nerf. Facing him on top is not only unequal, but brutally unfair. Top is usually an isolated lane and this guy cannot be killed, deals tons of dmg and can dive you on turret pre 6th level. Congratulations to Riot, for making the right decision.

Quazzar12/13/2019, 1:13:06 AM1 votes

I came here because i just discovered his q's don't stack. Oh, and Q damage cut in half, ah and btw ulti range was cut to half as well. I tried to play him as supp and i got so fucked i have new wholes im my body.

Makarakarn7/8/2019, 5:57:27 PM1 votes

Good, bench the damn kench, he's been on the throne of top lane for too long! Then again, I don't play top, so I don't really care xD

Shahamut7/8/2019, 7:34:15 PM1 votes

I dont see anything about Q not adding stacks anywhere in the notes, might be a bug. You should report it.

Nightstick241/23/2020, 2:16:53 AM1 votes

Wow, I used to play Tahm top all the time, stopep playing for awhile and just came back. Wtf?

Might as well not even get his W if the other team has ranged champs. At this point if you manage to get three stacks on someone they should just get executed, because they'd have to be stupid to let you.

Rito's just killing Tahm? If you regret making him just delete the champion, don't nerf him so much he's literal garbage. What the hell?

I know u miss me7/9/2019, 5:06:47 PM1 votes

Now you know what it feels like ; Karthus mid main here :-).

21 Kings7/9/2019, 10:19:06 PM1 votes

Kench is not balanced. Period. Good riddance.

Obiwon847/8/2019, 10:46:33 AM1 votes

Ironically I think the e change will actually make his top better and support worse ... This champ will be utter garbage post these changes. Who is working on the balance team because there is not a lot of thought going into this. Even Kayle support is gonna be better then tahm.

RaiderofAnuses7/17/2019, 3:58:55 PM1 votes

This guy is 110 percent correct, heres a kicker for me though, i only play tahm kench. Hes the only champion ive ever liked since coming back to league during season 7 and despite the uphill battle fighting through all of riots stupid nerfs i still enjoyed him. Then season 9 rolls around and you kill him in sup but sprinkle some love on him in the top lane but you rendered his ult useless, so i was fine with that trade off, then everyone cries and you bent the knee. I have 1899000 mastery points with this champion i dedicated my time into him and you killed that for me. Riot is incompetent guess ill play something else

Nosferat Zodd7/8/2019, 8:33:36 AM1 votes

Have been using kench as support and now abusing him top lane since the slow on eating allies. Is he completely broken? most definitely.

However the all around nerf is kinda too much. They are removing a lot of his damage (which is completely justified). They are shifting his gray health power to a more less oppressing shield amount and a more rewarding "don't pop and you sustain more" (ok for the lane phase but nerf to the 5vs5 phase).

The real problem is the stack mechanics that gut completely his ability to stick to the target: -q cooldown nerfed -q doesnt apply stack -q consume all the stacks -q slow reduction

All these together are clearly too much as he now cant ever dream of coming close to eat anyone.

i hope they realize this and implement 2 of the four q nerf at most...

also "w can now eat blue and red", what? we kench jungle now?