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These Teemo "buffs".

Ramelznak·8/5/2015, 4:34:08 PM·22 votes·9,774 views

Curious to get the opinions of other people who have played with the new Teemo changes. As far as I'm concerned these so called "buffs" are actually an overall nerf.

  1. The passive change is more of a QoL change. Yes, you go stealth faster (especially if you're) in the brush. The increase for his attack speed when coming out of stealth is nice, but not used that often compared to so many other champions passive abilities. It's definitely a buff to the passive, but it's still one of the weaker passives in the game. Also, Teemo top won't really benefit from being able to move in a brush when in stealth, as the bushes were changed to 3 smaller bushes with the new SR.

  2. His Q , W, and E were unchanged. If Teemo needed anything updated it was probably his W, Move Quick. It is an ability that was great for when the champion was released because dashes and movement speed increases were much more rare than they are now. Teemo is supposed to be played in a hit-and-run manner, his W is so outclassed by many newer champion abilities that this ability is pretty much always leveled last.

  3. Rest in peace, Noxious Trap. I get it, throwing shrooms looks cool. I am honestly glad that Riot is trying to spice up some of the older, more binary champions, but this isn't the answer. Making his slow decay over time? Not grating vision of a person hit by a shroom (it appears that hitting a shroom actually REMOVES vision of a champion, a bug perhaps?) Shroom duration was cut in half from 10 to 5 minutes, that is a big hit to Teemo's ability to give vision around the map. This is Teemo's ULTIMATE ability, and it's been hit hard with the nerf bat. In order to be able to keep a similar level of map control with the shrooms new duration you will HAVE to buy either Morellonomicon or Athene's. You will need more CDR and mana regen to TRY and keep as many shrooms down. That in itself is a big nerf to Teemo. Noxious trap has also had it's arm time increased, why? One of the only way to protect yourself as Teemo from someone with a gap closer (Renekton, Riven, Yasuo, etc.) was to put down a shroom at your feet when you were being dove. At 1 seconds arm time you already had to try and predict when the enemy was going to make it's move so that the shroom would be armed and explode before they could move out of the way. Between the animation and arming time of 1.5 seconds it will be near impossible to pull this off if the enemy champion is even remotely paying attention.

"But Riot wants Teemo to have more presence in a team fight, and now you can throw shrooms into the enemy team." I may be wrong here, but I don't think you'll hardly ever successfully throw a shroom into an enemy team and actually have it explode. The only positive to this change is that at later levels you can shroom a bush from safety, which is pretty cool but doesn't make up for all the other power Teemo loses from the other changes.

I think that these changes make Teemo more geared towards being a jungler or support. I think you will see Teemo's late game power fall off simply because of the increased arm time, and decreased duration on shrooms (which will really hurt him when trying to shroom an escape late game). I think granting Teemo's shrooms longer duration with rank would be fair (perhaps 5/6.5/8 minutes at ranks 1/2/3?). Another idea that would actually make Teemo able to truly utilize his new passive would be to grant Teemo invisibility for a short time after leaving the brush (.75 or 1 second). I say this because being able to move around stealthed in a bush does almost nothing if the enemy team knows you're in there, at which point it's useless.

Maybe I'm way off base here, feel free to let me know. I know that Teemo haters will never stop hating, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just have issue with Riot giving all this fanfare about these "buffs" when I honestly think they are nerfs. If Riot wants Teemo to be a jungler, just say it. I feel that some Riot devs try to sugarcoat their carefully worded responses in terms of reworks, and their explanations as to why they make said changes. I don't want funny comments about "how cool" these changes are, I just want a straight and open reason as to why changes are made. If Riot simply said, "we don't like Teemo in his current state, so we're changing him", I'd be fine with that! Just give it to us straight, without the fluff, without the "all hail the dark lord" jokes, and with what your honest intentions and expectations are for the champion.

Thanks for reading,

  • A sad Teemo fan item 3070

31 Comments

RiotRiot Wav3Break8/7/2015, 7:53:31 PM11 votes

Specifically for point 3, mushrooms were never granting vision of poisoned enemies. They were actually revealing a very large radius around the explosion and thus it felt like poisoned enemies were revealed by the poison because they were slowed and could not escape the revealed radius.

This functionality was unintentionally removed (my bad), but we are rectifying it by actually making mushroom poison reveal the targets it hits for this coming patch like Caitlyn traps.

We are still evaluating his performance and will likely respond with appropriate changes in the coming patches to help him out if he needs it!

HumanPerfect8/5/2015, 5:36:24 PM9 votes

Teemo had a unique niche of map control (no other champion focuses on planting mines around the map). Well, this didn't sit well with Riot so they decided to turn him into yet another generic "omg did you see that sick skillshot!? #LCSBigPlays" champion.

Good opening post though.

Llanite8/5/2015, 6:25:43 PM6 votes

His R is a lot more flexible.

You can toss R ahead to block narrow paths, you can use it to stop chaser, you can check bushes and in teamfight, you don't have to rely on people chasing you for it to work.

Its aim time is 0.5s higher, but it now has a range, you can toss couple of units behind and run into it.

Lastly, shroom has no cd now, sure, people can kill it, but if you toss 3 at once, at least 1 of them will survive. The most important point being, you now ACTIVELY makes the shroom work, in contrast with the old R where you rely on people being dumb.

LadyRenly8/5/2015, 6:30:00 PM6 votes

I really don't care for the changes. I'd take the old shrooms any day. Not being able to move them means needing to put them in a spot where they will actually be exploded. 5 minutes is just nothing

Poske8/5/2015, 9:27:18 PM4 votes

I knew it was the nerf the moment I saw

Mushroom duration reduced to 5 minutes

HECK they can make shrooms dealt true damage now and still overall teemo would be nerfed

ZylotheWolfbane8/8/2015, 7:25:30 AM4 votes

I think that 10 minutes to five minutes is ROUGH. You're cutting the time you had on them in half, and that's pretty extreme a nerf. I think 7 minutes would be more reasonable, a good in-between point. Shorter than before, but longer than 5 minutes. I also think that the arm time change was totally unnecessary. The arm time is long enough as is, especially with the ease of use of red trinkets later in the game. If someone sees you put a shroom down, it'll be gone quickly no matter what the arm time is. So changing the arm time literally JUST makes it harder for Teemo to both fight back when he is jumped on, AND makes him LESS useful in teamfights. Because its more time for the fight to move AWAY from his close-range shroom placement. So really his ult just needs to go to 7 minute duration, and revert the arm time. Do that and I think he'd be in a much better spot overall.

chide da jungler8/9/2015, 3:19:25 PM4 votes

I've been playing with him for a few days now. I find that I have lost a lot of midgame and early power due to the R changes. Teemos main benefit was map control and the ult change took a lot of it away. You can't really buy CDR on teemo because his scaling with it is so poor (q low CD, W and E no real benefit). There needs to be a compensatory buff to the shrooms somehow. Maybe you can carry 3/4/5 now + lower CD?

I feel like there was an attempt to shift some power out of R and into his passive, but that passive is not useful. There are no bushes around objectives in lane/nexus. You get some use out of it early game, but not so much that it tilts any matchups in teemo's favor. You are still picking teemo as a niche toplane counterpick because he mechanically counters some champion's kits. That hasn't changed. It's not like this bush trick is going to make him beat pantheon or akali in lane now.

The mushroom-bounce thing is also puzzling me. The hop distance is so short that you end up with shrooms clustered too close together. It's not like I can use it to get shroom in to the enemy back line in teamfights because 1.5s arm time and people are not stupid.

Anyway, I hope to see some buffs. The win-rate plummet on teemo is real.

Krucho8/8/2015, 1:36:49 AM2 votes

shrooms should probably get a small cooldown buff after these changes: You essentially made shrooms less risky to place, but you also made them last a lot less longer.

That means you can't max as much shrooms as before, but that also means you have to refresh them more often. A small cooldown buff would allegiate the "you can't max as much shrooms as before" factor and really make his ult more dangerous like before, while still retaining this new throw mechanic which still greatly help refresh the shroom zone.

tl;dr: you divided his shroom zone potential by 2 but buffed his shroom setups, just give a bit more power back to the shroom zone (by reducing shroom cooldown).

Cleril8/5/2015, 10:48:49 PM2 votes

I think a nice buff to him would be to have shrooms bounce continuously. This means a mushroom will bounce off of all other mushrooms it touches before landing. As it stands it's honestly quicker to just walk and put the shroom down than bounce it until the ability is rank 3 when it has some legitimate range.

I don't see myself playing him. The changes had complexity without depth. Making the changes I proposed would have depth to the complex mechanic.

BlueBanthaMilk8/5/2015, 6:43:11 PM2 votes

Your points ring true :( the new arm time on the shrooms is pretty killer, but it's just one of the newer downsides.

I made a suggestion thread a loooooong time ago about how Teemo would benefit greatly from having the stealth apply for a short amount of time when leaving brush, and I think it would be a much better way to utilize his passive and give him a stronger positioning tool. Rn, you only use the passive for escaping or setting up a massive ambush right near you, which is kinda lame. It needs an offense function!

Snuffyx8/13/2015, 3:51:10 AM1 votes

A complete nerf. Teemo exchanges his map control for a gimmick.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/3fwzku/no_1_teemos_opinion_on_the_changes_as_a_teemo_nerf/

Upvote Ipav and reply to Phreak.

Zhugan8/6/2015, 2:03:25 AM1 votes

Good.

PrinceBedazzled8/7/2015, 9:26:57 PM1 votes

Ya I agree they pretty much ruined teemo. Maybe they could experiment with some sort of on hit effect for his first auto out of stealth? Something with like 20% ap scaling or whatever, or maybe like a supercharged poison? and his shroom time is a gigantic nerf, maybe make it so he gets shrooms faster to compensate? I don't know but these changes make him even less viable in my opinion.

Pawntuga8/12/2015, 4:55:01 PM1 votes

Just to show how bad this new "buffs" (nerfs in fact) are, consulting an external website we can see that Teemo Win Rate on Patch 5.14 was 51,66 and it decreased to 46.16 on Patch 5.15, ranking 47th of 52 top champs! Thanks Riot! :(