PSA: Armor and MR don't give diminishing returns

SionideCN·10/24/2014, 7:31:31 AM·9 votes·1,552 views

Each 100 armor increases your EHP by 100%

Armor and MR simply INCREASE the usefulness of health. (1000 health at 200 armor = 3000 EHP, 1000 health at 400 armor = 5000 EHP)

armor doesn't give diminishing returns, learn to math

21 Comments

Magma Lux Mid10/24/2014, 6:39:07 PM2 votes

Actually it does have diminishing returns.

At 50 armor you would only take 66% damage from physical attacks.

At 100 armor you would only take 50% damage, a difference of 16% from the previous 50.

At 150 armor, you would take only 40% damage, a difference of 10% from the previous 50.

Unless my math is wrong, or I mistook how it works.

JustMyBassCannon10/24/2014, 4:32:01 PM1 votes

Technically, Armor/MR and Health don't give directly diminishing returns. Every point of Armor/MR is always +1% to your EHP. However, you have resistances as % defense, while you have Health as flat defense. If you have 1000 HP and 200 resistances, you have less EHP than someone with 1500 HP and 110 resistances.

Rather than directly diminishing, buying one makes the other more valuable. A good player learns the benchmarks for when buying one will be more useful than buying the other.

ZenithEevee10/24/2014, 5:10:15 PM1 votes

Did i mention the time i was JG garen, 5000 health and at 200 armor?

#Try2getme

Sozan510/24/2014, 6:06:22 PM1 votes

Yes, armor and mr don't have diminishing returns.

However, there are few things to remember:

  1. Armor and MR give more EHP the more Health you have.¹
  2. Health gives more EHP the more Armor and MR you have.¹
  3. Flat armor and magic penetration works better the LESS armor/mr enemy have.²
  4. % Penetration works better the MORE armor/mr enemy have.
  5. Damage shields and sustain heal more EHP the more armor/mr you have.³

¹ - as such building both is most effective way to get tanky. ² - to a cap. When you have more penetration than your enemy have armor/mr then the effectivness is lower. ³ - basically anyone that relies a lot on shields or sustain should focus mostly (or even solely) on resistances rather than health. It includes champions like Warwick, Swain, Galio (somewhat), Soraka etc.

Llanite10/24/2014, 7:21:20 PM1 votes

Diminishing return, aka, diminishing MARGINAL return. In that sense, armor and mr do NOT DR.

THe term people looking for is DIMINISHING MARGINAL UTILITY = diminished in relative value, i.e. stacking AD from 100 to 200 give you exact same AD from 200 to 300, but its value diminish from 100% dmg increase to 50% dmg increase and you're better off with IAS than AD. Similarly, health also diminishes as you stack more of its, despite its giving the exact same value and cost exact amount of gold. Real diminishing return is something when the second warmorg yields less health, or become more expensive.

armor and MR do NOT have diminishing 'return', but it does have diminishing UTILITY

Terchio12/30/2014, 3:57:57 AM1 votes

By that logic, HP has diminishing returns. Afterall, at 2000 HP, 200 HP gives +10% EHP, but at 2200 HP, 200 HP gives +9.09% EHP.

SeargentAnus12/30/2014, 3:58:27 AM1 votes

So the best EHP would come from 3 Thornmails, and 3 Warmogs? Actually no, it would come from 6 Sunfires.

Doumz10/24/2014, 8:37:03 AM1 votes

True, but Last Whisper/Void staff tho.

Rebonack1/2/2015, 3:56:44 AM1 votes

And for the record, against someone without %Pen you ideally want 100 resist for every 1500 HP.

Against someone with %Pen from masteries and Void/Whisper you want 100 resist for every 2400 HP.

This is just a pretty simple cost effectiveness thing. How much EHP you get for gold spent.

Kuroi8610/24/2014, 3:31:24 PM1 votes

Armor without health though is near useless.

Every point of armor requires a unit to take 1% more of its maximum health in physical damage to be killed. This is called effective health.

Hence, Sunfire Cape, Randuins Omen, Spirit of the Ancient Golem, they grant health and armor because of how efficient it is.