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Losing isn't fun. (And why that's a problem)

NotSpecialDude·6/29/2017, 11:26:30 PM·12 votes·3,030 views

Look, I'm going to blunt.

I have played this game since season 4 and I love it, but the issue I have always had with this game is the fact that frankly, it sucks to be on the losing team. In fact, in some cases, its fully possible to get beaten so badly that you can't even play the game, you'd only be able to stay near your tower before your screen goes colorblind for the 5th time in a row.

I get it. This is a skilled based game, and many times I, or my team is outclassed and we deserve the loss. But the issue is that even curb-stomp games last around 20 or so minutes. More then even the most graceful of losers can stomach. Why do you think so many people dc, or devolve into inting jerks once they feel the game is lost? That isn't to say that what they do is justified, but it is certainly explainable. Dying constantly isn't fun. Having your team's morale dissolve because of one bad play is hard to sit through. And if there was genuinely nothing you can do, then you feel like absolute GARBAGE.

So, ok, losing isn't an enjoyable experience (no S#!%) but that doesn't explain why its a problem for the game as a whole. (Technically it should given that games are meant to entertain, but anywho...) Simply put, no one knows how to play from behind anymore, or at least people in low elos like silver and bronze. Almost every game I've played where the odds shifted from our favor. The teams just shut down. Most tend to play the game out but in a sort of half-hearted approach. They would either start making dumber plays, take unnecessary risks, or not change their style of play from the style where they are ahead. (most common) The reason this happens and why its so hard to break out of is best described by a sentence a ryze once told me/

"We are gonna lose anyway. Why make a deal out of it?"

Because losing is so unfun; people, when they feel they can't win, will simply try to get the game over with as soon as possible mentally. They lose investment in the games outcome and stop trying, or if they can't afford to lose they double down and take what ever chance they could take no matter the risk. This makes comebacks difficult, and losing teams feel miserable to be on.

I wish I could make a suggestion to fix it, but I honestly don't know what a solution to this would be. I just feel that highlighting what I feel is a major issue with the game is all that I can do.

Maybe I'm speaking to the choir or maybe I just made a fool of myself. Wouldn't be the first time.

17 Comments

ZT Xperimentor6/30/2017, 4:47:31 PM4 votes

Doesn't help that riot has repeatedly nerfed defensive plays, and increased snowballing.

Ben SwoIo6/30/2017, 2:51:52 AM3 votes

Yeah I'm beginning to lose interest in this game. It's the same crap over and over with the trolling, feeding, flaming, etc etc. Gets old. The same garbage attitudes people have towards their own team mates. They'd rather flame their own team in all chat to the enemy team, as if that helps anything. And to hit your point about playing from behind, yeah that shit happens in high gold too. I dropped from Gold 1 promos down to the bottom of Gold 3 because people just feed 10 plus deaths consistently in all of my recent matches. I'm pretty sick of it. Not fun anymore.

Rewt6/29/2017, 11:38:22 PM3 votes

Its a problem with MOBAs as a genre. In CSGO. you always feel like as long as you just aim better next round you can take it easy. But in MOBAs if the enemy gets ahead they snowball and get further and further ahead until either A: you lose or B: they Throw.

inplane6/30/2017, 3:35:42 PM3 votes

Winning isn't always "fun" either. I would rather play a very close game as Support Taliyah and lose than a game as Support Janna and make no effort winning. This is a PvP video game. If winning is the only thing that matters, I would go play an MMORPG.

deadlychuck6/30/2017, 5:41:21 PM3 votes

I think there are two root causes of this kind of poor experience.

  1. Riot keeps reinforcing aggressive play.
  2. Riot keeps cutting the length of the game down.

Aggressive play is something which they keep designing champions around, and many champions who have defensive play are often stripped of it, for being "uninteractive". As a result, people have either forgotten how to play defensively, because they never see it and the champions they have are less capable of doing it.

When it comes to cutting the length of games down though, there is nothing wrong with being stuck in a game that you can't win, so long as it doesn't feel like you can't win. Games use to be decided at around the 35-40 minute mark, for a total game length of around 45 minutes, up until then it almost didn't matter how far a head you got, it was possible to recover. Then the last 10 minutes, more or less, of the game was spent in a period of "well they're too far ahead to recover". So as they've started making changes which promote shorter games, they've left that 10 minute period the same, in order to not make it feel like a game is lost in a single push.

So now, with average game lengths of 25 minutes, generally the first 10 minutes feel like it's anyone's game, then the game is decided at around 12-15 minutes, and trying to recover just draws out the game. So what you find, is that the game has become worse in respect to how much of your time is spent playing and how much is spent losing. If i play for 3 hours, with a longer game time, (assuming all of these will be losses) i might spend 40 minutes of those 3 hours (180 minutes), in an impossible to win situation. If you reduce the length of the game, and play for 3 hours, then nearly half of the time spent playing is in an impossible to win situation. 2/9 vs 1/2

Reducing the length of the games is actually reducing the quality of the time spent playing.

Hyrum Graff6/30/2017, 2:40:46 AM2 votes

The counterpoint, of course, is that it feels good to win.

There's definitely a fine line between "I feel like I can't come back when behind," and "I feel like I don't get a lead even when I'm crushing my lane."

I do think there's a spot between the two where it feels like you can get fed and carry but also there's a chance to come back from behind if you play well. Can't say I know where it is.

Rebonack6/30/2017, 3:38:03 PM2 votes

Dominion didn't have this problem, but most people refused to give it a fair shot and so it died.

Dukues6/30/2017, 3:59:25 PM2 votes

My main compliant has always been match making. Losing never fun but losing a close fought game feels way less worse than when your team gets roflstomped. That's why the should try and make as many evenly matched games as possible.

I do agree about silver/bronze at least to me this season it felt worse playing through them than last season. Just felt like after a team had a lead people on behind team stopped trying.

Almost all gold games I have played been somewhat close at one point and even when team down the team still tries to win most the time. Not sure why the change. Maybe it just a perceived change and really isn't there.

But for matching making my arguments for improvement listed below and not limited to my suggestions.

  1. Lower new account starting mmr. Helps reduce impact of new players by getting them closer to their actual elo quicker.
  2. some stat variables added to elo/mmr. Nothing crazy but like if someone has crazy k/d/a in every game at a certain elo don't have them slowly rank up. Give them like 35-50 lp a win if mmr is much higher not this 25-30 bs. This obviously in extreme cases but they should reduce the time it takes smurfs to climb ladder since all their doing while climibng is ruining lower elo games anyways.
  3. Reduce impact of placement games on prior season accounts. Unless your diamond+ you probably don't give a shit about reranking every season. I think they should reduce impact of preseason rank loss since low elo players always going to be low elo unless they improve. I don't need to climb from bronze to gold to prove I am still a gold player. I will climb a couple divs in silver if you want but no reason to lose 8 divs during pre season placements.
  4. Less ajustments to placement ranks at the start of a season. Its dumb people can wait until last month and auto placed in gold when if they did placements at the start of season they would be silver 5 or bronze. You can't have it both ways Riot so choose one and keep it that way. Or better yet meet in the middle.
  5. Less auto filled games for high elo.
  6. More ranked rewards to provide incentive to continue to try and climb. Lots of players (such as myself this season) stop playing ranked once they hit gold for rewards. More rewards for higher ranks may create a new incentive for players to continue to try and climb and increase ranked player population and keep players current.
It Hertz When IP6/30/2017, 10:46:00 AM1 votes

Earlier surrender. Not because games are always necessarily decided so early, but for precisely the issue you're noting: teams that fall behind tend to mentally give up, leading to almost certain defeat.

Rockm Sockm6/30/2017, 12:21:55 PM1 votes

In ranked the problem stems that most teams are stacked in champion select.

Add the horrible mmr transfer from dynamic que and boosted people.

Losing wouldn't be so bad of your team understood how to turtle and stop the bleeding.

Most games end up being one sided stomps of who got the feeders and who doesnt.

The Leo Cat6/30/2017, 10:51:35 AM1 votes

The issue stems from the community, not the game itself.

Most players don't understand that certain champions will actually start to fall off in the late game, while others become stronger. And most players also don't understand how to adapt their items to the situation. Frequently enough, you see people buying builds that are often used by Pros, rather than manually going into the item list to get something that will shut a champion down.

One thing I will admit as a player who came from a long history with Dota 2. In League of Legends, it's not over if you're dealing with a single fed champion. You don't snow ball that hard in League, yet people will surrender at 20. In Dota 2, it's understandable to give up when suddenly you have a level 20 character knocking on your doorstep and everyone is just level 12, yet oddly no one does.

Power Cosmic6/30/2017, 3:21:49 PM1 votes

Maybe the new honor system and grades can be looked at as ways to help good players that are losing. But of course having one ladder and no demotions or promotions would by far go the longest way.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku6/30/2017, 5:32:54 PM1 votes

I get it. This is a skilled based game, and many times I, or my team is outclassed and we deserve the loss. But the issue is that even curb-stomp games last around 20 or so minutes.

i could agree with this more or less... BUT most of time its my team fault to let this bs last for nothing. Sometimes u can comeback, but there's time where u should just press yes and go next. Understand when ur game is winnable or already lose is a skill.

And thats why i thanks Riot for create this new herald.

Simply put, no one knows how to play from behind anymore, or at least people in low elos like silver and bronze.

Even when ahead. But anyway its a skill u should work on.

They would either start making dumber plays, take unnecessary risks, or not change their style of play from the style where they are ahead.

Don't know... depend of the game. Sometime the game is lose anyway and the only chance is to take a high risk.

Because losing is so unfun; people, when they feel they can't win, will simply try to get the game over with as soon as possible mentally. They lose investment in the games outcome and stop trying, or if they can't afford to lose they double down and take what ever chance they could take no matter the risk. This makes comebacks difficult, and losing teams feel miserable to be on.

i could bet most of times, when the players in ur games ff mentaly they still have possibility to come back.