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What to Build Against True Damage and % Health?

123girr·5/6/2019, 7:26:39 AM·6 votes·5,810 views

I recently played a game against Mr. Yi as a Sejuani. Since I usually see Master Yi go for IE and other such crit items (, , )I rushed for a Randuin's Omen thinking it would help negate some of the damage from the crits. Instead, he built items such as Black Cleaver , Lord Dominic's Regards , and Blade of the Ruined King

Our Mid laner was a Sion who was going for health (his goal was to hit 10 K, and he got pretty close), and after I saw what Yi was building I decided it would be a better idea to go with items like Ninja Tabi , Thornmail , and Warmog's to try and at least make use of the armor I had and give our team a little more time to fight since their adc was still building standard items like IE. I could tank for the ADC and Sion could tank for Yi.

After about 5 fights, it was very apparent that A) We could not slow him due to his ult B) He could out heal any damage that we delt to him C) Armor was useless between his Armor Pen and Wuju Style active ability D) Health was useless due to his % Health damage E) We could not stun lock him for long enough to kill him F) It was pointless to continue the game because no amount of scheming and plotting was getting us anywhere

Essentially, I could only take about 3-4 hits from him while building full tank, same with Sion. I had upward of 3,000 health, while Sion had well over 6,000 health. It came out to about 700-1500 damage per hit. What do you even do about this situation????

Note, I realize that items like Thornmail and Frozen Heart would help a little, but with his attack speed and damage that would still only stall him for about 2 seconds and deal a total of 204 damage (specifically from thornmail). Is that really all a tank is worth?

I also understand that people get fed and snowball, but we stayed even, if not ahead of him for a large majority of the game. Our bot lane was raking in kills, our mid lane was ahead in CS, our top lane was dominating, I was a little behind, but I don't feel like it was enough to warrant the punishment that ensued. Are tanks really this useless against the one thing they are SUPPOSED to be able to counter?

Edit: Added a few more details and fixed some errors I found

30 Comments

BLACK REALM GOD5/6/2019, 7:48:32 AM7 votes

are you asking

"what do i build against %hp and true damage" or "how do i beat yi"

?

those are different answers.

your assumption that you "stayed even" is possibly faulty logic. to know for sure you should check gold per player during the match. here's a gold timeline of your match.

https://imgur.com/a/cp6igr1

Vlada Cut5/6/2019, 8:00:31 AM6 votes

Fight fire. With true damage. Full ap conqueror Sejuani :^)

AmazoX5/6/2019, 8:39:18 AM5 votes

You can't, it's why Vayne & Yi suck to play against if you don't have a coordinated team.

lowrankhero5/6/2019, 2:19:45 PM3 votes

why is no one talking about hte sion mid

Daddy Ants5/6/2019, 10:18:32 AM2 votes

Even though Vayne's true damage is % hp.

She still deals less True damage per game than Olaf, Camille, Fiora etc.

The thigh guy5/6/2019, 9:03:43 AM2 votes

Tank stats are stuck in this situation where they just don’t work. Pen is so high that tanks are virtually unplayable.

Hayaishi25/6/2019, 10:54:29 AM2 votes

You build damage so you can one shot him. That is how Riot is balancing nowdays.

Handy Sandy 5/6/2019, 12:13:06 PM2 votes

someone on your team gets gw, you stunlock him, and get stoneplate so u dont die trying to stun him first. frozen heart doesnt slow his AS cause his ult. other than that you just lose cause lategame yi.

Sathelight5/6/2019, 1:09:28 PM2 votes

I remember reading a few tips on how to deal with Yi. I'll link the source if I manage to find it.

Those tips were :

Don't buy defensive stats to counter him specifically.
Kill him before he kills you - it was an old post.. not sure how it works in tons of dmg meta but denying him exp and lvs will definitely slow him down.
Use hard CC - all slows from skills, items and summoner spells (?) are useless when he casts ult so don't even waste time and gold on those.
Deny him resets on his ult - use Zhonya's, suppression, airborne, Bard ult, Ryze ult, mobility spells - just stall the fight till his ult expires.

Then your attack and movement speed debuffs will work and you can perform steps 1-3 successfully.

=> Remember I didn't come up with those tricks myself and I do realize they take a lot of practice and failed attempts to master so no hate pls. Master Yi is a common issue in lower elos so I figured this might help some of us - casual players :)

Edit. I just read his W 70% dmg reduction doesn't negate true dmg at all - might be useful in certain situations.

Pika Fox5/6/2019, 1:17:05 PM2 votes

You CC him and let your team kill him before the CC wears off. Have your support exhaust him. Group up mid/late game so he cant pick someone off.

radetari5/6/2019, 5:52:54 PM1 votes

Build your faith in God and hope that they will get so far behind that they will do negative damage to you

Bonipherus5/6/2019, 11:29:52 PM1 votes

unfortunately the only counters are keep building tanky and hope your team can blow up whoever is doing all that damage or stop building tanky and build damage to try and kill them first.

Meep Man5/6/2019, 11:52:05 PM1 votes

To combat true damage, you have to build health, such as Warmog's Armor most notably. Note, however, most champions don't deal majority of their damage as true damage (in fact, none do). Most champions that deal true damage (Vayne, Fiora, Master Yi, and Darius for example) all primarily deal either physical or magic damage, so just building against the normal damage they deal will still reduce majority of their damage.

% Health damage is the opposite of true damage. You have to build whichever damage type they are dealing, so Armor or Magic Resist.

The best way to combat max health true damage is to build shields and healing. Shielding doesn't increase your health, so it will effectively reduce the true damage dealt in the only way possible without further increasing its % property. Healing will also undo the damage, so it will help you survive that way.

Noteworthy is that, in the example you gave with Yi where he is clearly fed, the game will come down to your team having the crowd control to deal with him. This is why I cannot explain how important reliable, decent duration crowd control is to have on a team (Alistar Q, Galio E, Leona Q, Pantheon W, Wukong R, etc.). Crowd Control isn't something that people should take lightly in champion select. If your team has no crowd control or majority of unreliable crowd control (such as Sion's) then its going to be extremely hard to deal with mobile champions on the enemy team that are performing decently (and you shouldn't go into a game expecting no one on the enemy team to do good).

So basically, reliable, decent crowd control. Can't stress enough how important it is. Try picking champions like Amumu Galio Leona Lulu Malzahar Maokai Nautilus Rammus Skarner . Oh, and of course, your team has to kill the champion hopefully during the crowd control, so you have to cooperate too.

123girr5/17/2019, 4:01:40 AM1 votes

So basically what I'm getting from this is build your team around Yi and pray to God that you out damage him... Seems balanced...

NemeBro5/17/2019, 4:15:06 AM1 votes

{quoted}

I recently played a game against Mr. Yi as a Sejuani. Since I usually see Master Yi go for IE and other such crit items (, , )I rushed for a Randuin's Omen thinking it would help negate some of the damage from the crits. Instead, he built items such as Black Cleaver , Lord Dominic's Regards , and Blade of the Ruined King

Our Mid laner was a Sion who was going for health (his goal was to hit 10 K, and he got pretty close), and after I saw what Yi was building I decided it would be a better idea to go with items like Ninja Tabi , Thornmail , and Warmog's to try and at least make use of the armor I had and give our team a little more time to fight since their adc was still building standard items like IE. I could tank for the ADC and Sion could tank for Yi.

After about 5 fights, it was very apparent that A) We could not slow him due to his ult B) He could out heal any damage that we delt to him C) Armor was useless between his Armor Pen and Wuju Style active ability D) Health was useless due to his % Health damage E) We could not stun lock him for long enough to kill him F) It was pointless to continue the game because no amount of scheming and plotting was getting us anywhere

Essentially, I could only take about 3-4 hits from him while building full tank, same with Sion. I had upward of 3,000 health, while Sion had well over 6,000 health. It came out to about 700-1500 damage per hit. What do you even do about this situation????

Note, I realize that items like Thornmail and Frozen Heart would help a little, but with his attack speed and damage that would still only stall him for about 2 seconds and deal a total of 204 damage (specifically from thornmail). Is that really all a tank is worth?

I also understand that people get fed and snowball, but we stayed even, if not ahead of him for a large majority of the game. Our bot lane was raking in kills, our mid lane was ahead in CS, our top lane was dominating, I was a little behind, but I don't feel like it was enough to warrant the punishment that ensued. Are tanks really this useless against the one thing they are SUPPOSED to be able to counter?

Edit: Added a few more details and fixed some errors I found

First of all, link the match. I can't see it in your history, though judging by the images the poster earlier posted no one on your team at any point past the early game was even with Yi. He was ahead all match.

Second of all, no one in the entire game, no matter the build, can tank a fully built Master Yi. He is one of the few true melee hypercarries this game has, and his DPS in particular is unmatched. No one comes close to matching his DPS, even with a crit build. He shreds any tank.

Thirdly, judging by your comp, your team was very low damage. Kayle and Twitch are your only late game damage dealers, and while their DPS is very high, it takes a while to ramp up, and neither were near Yi's level in gold at any point.

Worse, no one on your team had notable burst damage. If instead of a Sion mid you had something like a Neeko or a Vel'koz or even a Vladimir (less burst but can actually survive Yi past two seconds) you might have been able to burst him down once CC'd.

DuskDaUmbreon5/6/2019, 9:16:19 AM1 votes

item 3147 or item 3285 work very well as counters to %mHPTrue.

For Yi in particular, as he doesn't have %mHPTrue, only %mHP from item 3153 / item 1419 and True from his E, build both HP and armor. Armor handles the %hp, HP handles the True. Also, for Yi, you're wanting to just invade him early on and kick his ass since pretty much anyone can kill him before he has 6, and if it reaches late game you're just wanting to keep him CC locked while your mages and/or assassins handle him.

Malix Farwin5/17/2019, 4:15:25 AM1 votes

you have to build to one shot him, if he builds defensively it hurts his offensive capabilities and if he isnt destroying ppl quickly then he is pretty useless. building defensive outside of something other than zhonyas or GA is a trap.

Becky Becks5/6/2019, 2:16:54 PM1 votes

Build full ap sejiis and kill yi before he kills you. :) Damage counters damage

Kadexe5/6/2019, 2:49:58 PM1 votes

Sejuani has lots of different ways to CC Yi, and he can't kill her quickly. As long as you play with your team, you should be able to lock him down and kill him before he kills anyone on your team.

Noblewind5/6/2019, 2:57:38 PM1 votes

Yi can run rampant if he gets a lead but if the game goes long enough you just wait for his initial Q on his target to wear off then stun him and your team can delete him fairly quickly.

Kind of comes down to team comp at that point, like in terms of of how many options you have to stun lock him + who else on the Yi's team you have to deal with. Like if you have to deal with him + another reliable diver every fight you're probably screwed

The Rogue Status5/6/2019, 4:26:07 PM1 votes

Master Yi is not something you can build around, it's something you have to play around.

Going for cheap 4000 HP 300 Armor builds doesn't automatically mean you get to mindlessly take fights wherever you want.

The trick to beating Yi is to group, have vision, and focus your crowd control abilities onto him. The most important part is to not get picked off by him when you're alone.

Lovelle5/6/2019, 5:41:57 PM1 votes

Damage, you have to kill them before they kill you.