Boards›Gameplay

Gameplay Board's Rules and Guidelines: What do you want from them?

ModAcademy Kayn·4/12/2019, 10:58:27 PM·17 votes·2,554 views

Hello fellow users of the Gameplay Boards, it is I, Academy Kayn. Some of you may know me from my guest appearances on “Whose Lane is it Anyways?” Or “How I met your Jungler” but most of all, I like to make myself known on Gameplay. You may have noticed that we've been updating the rules on individual boards to better fit the community needs related to those specific boards. We've already done General Discussion and Player Behavior, and we'd like your help to do the same for Gameplay.

Here’s the catch: out of all the Boards, Gameplay is likely one with the most varied content and the most diverse views when it comes to what is 'right.' We have Mains of every type, from the most humble of Irons to the most polished of Diamonds. There are so many lenses from which to view the state of League's gameplay that we could put eye doctors out of business.

So we're asking for your help. How would you work towards creating an environment where people can express their passion in a productive way?

For some conversation starters, I'll list a few questions about the type of Standards and Guidelines we're trying to nail down. Keep in mind that while we do hope to use this post as a basis for our update, some ideas or standards might just be unfeasible, or too much work for the manpower we have.

  • Low Effort Posts: What constitutes a low effort post to you all? A complaint about something, someone saying "THIS IS BS!!!1!", posts that don't particularly facilitate discussion?

  • Are we killjoys?: As much as we can all enjoy the occasional joke, is Gameplay the best place for them? Do humorous spins on gameplay topics serve to foster meaningful discussion, or are these jokes best made elsewhere?

  • Am I....FEELING?!: Instincts help us determine what feel right and wrong, but is feeling something is off enough? Should we be more objective, or are feelings alone an appropriate justification for a post?

  • Rata-Stat-Stat-Stat: Statistics, (Banrate, Winrate, Pickrate, etc) are vital tools in setting up your point, but are stats alone good enough? Is “X champion has a high winrate, where da nerf bat at” a reasonable enough post on it’s own, or does it need more in-depth analysis of the numbers?

  • It’s who I am DAD!!!: What is the Gameplay board for? Is it for expression, or for discussion? What do you think Gameplay’s purpose is, the content you want to see come from it?

Thank you for your time, and I look forward to reading your responses.

49 Comments

DuskDaUmbreon4/12/2019, 11:23:33 PM6 votes

I want to see conspiracy theory posts (RITO ALWAYS ATTACC MY PROMOS!!!!!!!!!11) gone for good, for one.

And low-effort would be anything lacking real content (which would have to be case-by-case, judged on length, and quality - As a general rule of thumb if it says something it should have something to back it up) or that's too similar to something recently posted (On the hot page and/or posted in the last 6 hours).

Basically: More facts, less identical posts, and less conspiracy theories.

Also, can we ban the comment "Winrate doesn't matter" when discussing balance? Like there are too many people trying to justify nerfs because of a champion's pickrate or banrate in low elo, and who completely ignore winrate.

Silly Neeko4/13/2019, 12:44:02 AM6 votes

Posts that have literally 0 thought put into it at all.... should be removed. There has to be a reason behind it besides just complaining.

Also, if someone is going to just complain, either they should go to RANT or they should include a suggestion of how to go about fixing the problem....

Example of bad post

"Yasuo is so OP and needs nerfed."

Example of good post

"Yasuo feels OP at this point in time because of X. Is there anything that could potentially be done about it?"

It isnt just a blanket statement for upvotes/downvotes etc. It is making an actual discussion or pointing out what they feel is strong about him. It also lets commentators tailor their answers to those specific things rather than go through a big long speech of why it is or isnt that way.... and it shows that it is not just a rant.

As mentioned by someone else in the comments.... when the jokes are mixed with actual discussion or gameplay things, it is fine. If it is literally just a giant meme, then remove.

Often times instincts are correct, but for fairness seeing as everyone is human.... unless it is blatantly not following the rules, then you could always help them start a subject for the post by putting in a comment "is there a specific thing about Yasuo that makes him feel op?" Or something like that. If they can not figure anything out, then it is likely a rant rather than a post about gameplay.

While stats may be good back up..... It needs a Thesis. I can spill out commentary after commentary of useless information, but that is not helpful. What is helpful is making a comment and then backing up that comment. Such as:

"Yasuo is op at the moment because of his Wind Wall. It negates almost anything that is not a melee attack, which means almost all abilities are useless so long as it is available. His Y winrate and Z pickrate is partially due to his extreme mobility and massive damage spike.... but with out the Wind Wall he would be easily picked off and would no longer be a problem."

Though it still is kinda rough, it at least is leading somewhere and trying to back it up.

Gameplay boards is for discussion and general gameplay questions/problems that you are looking for answers for. It is not a rant about "get this removed because i dont %%%% it" but "does anyone else have a problem with this?"..... hopefully it is able to be seen where i am going with this. If not i can add more possibly.

P.S. No. I do not have a problem with Yasuo really. He is just the most complained about.

Kai Guy4/12/2019, 11:39:46 PM6 votes

Far as gameplay boards the quality of them would go up imo with the reduction of clutter. This is.... likely impossible to achieve currently. There are 2 ways I can see to go about it.

I think for the Killjoy comment that its entirely fine to make a few jabs and jokes providing you mingle them into content that's relevant and your not trying to be vicious about it. There are 2 things I think would make drastic changes to boards quality.

1, Boards could use better moderation. 2, Improved Boards Etiquette standards.

@1. Did i have ya going? I hope so, but this is not actually intended as a slight to the staff. Wanted to be misleading for some giggles . Rather this it is about what yall can and cant do. From what I can tell, currently Mods do not have that great of a toolset. Last time I checked yall cant even move Posts across Various sub boards. Any user currently can Filter posts using the search feature, but if you wanted to make a consolidated thread you have nothing to help with this. Going over a popular topic closing lowest quality ones is a drop in the bucket to get rid of low quality posts in saturated topics, yall are hella outnumbered here. Being able to make a "Mega thread" Where you take the OP and their comments for that topic and combine them into a single thread would lower the # of repeated posts, provide a very clear place to discuss a topic, and hopefully remove some of the echo chamber effect we see. This is just my Bias obviously but I think its for a reason you see people say "Go to the X subreddit" All the time on the boards when people are looking for quality.

@2. Quality of posts is only ever as good as the quality of the poster sets for them. No way around this, if a majority of users don't try to uphold higher standards then there wont be an average expectation for higher standards.

Edit. Thanks btw for being active on gameplay.

ChaosReyn4/13/2019, 1:22:28 AM5 votes

A low effort post, in my eyes, is something akin to like a title with 1-2 sentences that pretty much just say (as an example, before the Zed mains come for me, this is just the one that keeps showing up) "Zed is busted, nerf him." There's no discussion points, there's no room to really leave your opinion, and by creating room to voice your opinion, you've essentially spent 2-3x more time voicing your opinion than you're going to get as a response, IF you get a response. The response is usually negative in these posts as well...two birds/one stone to ship them off to rant or delete them altogether.

Jokes are fine. Jokes that poke fun at someone are objectively fine in doses. "Jokes" that are meant to be overly malicious or passive-aggressive (or repeatedly poking at the same area until someone doesn't see it as a joke anymore) are not fine. And blatant flame is of course, not a joke. Gameplay can be seen in a not-so-serious light - that's why it's called game-PLAY - but if it's inflammatory, or making civil discussion impossible, that's not really playing more than it is attempting to silence your opposition. It also helps to space out lengthy articles such as this one with a bit of fun so that they read better and keep just a bit more interest than looking at a fed Nasus worth of text.

How someone feels can take on interesting topics or angles...presentation is key. "I feel like Vayne is overpowered" is an ok topic for gameplay, and can stimulate plenty of civil discussion ranging from "how to counter Vayne" to "How to fix the problems Vayne has without buffing her Q through the roof" and everything in between. Whereas something like "Vayne is a toxic champ REEEEEE" is already predetermined as negative and obviously not really geared to stimulate civil discussion (and quite clearly belongs in RANT)

In particular, the emphasis needs to be on how caught up you are in what you feel - passion is one thing...rage is another. Rage needs to be kept in check, as rage will lead to Rule violations at some point. The members of these boards need to recognize rage when they see it, and act to quell it. If you are enraged, and you catch yourself, take a break, and try to come back and talk more later. If you notice that the person you're arguing with is getting hostile or super defensive, attempt to de-escalate the conversation while also stating that it's probably a good time to take a break and talk about things later. Note: de-escalation and asking for a break does NOT mean you "lose", it means "this is getting heated, lets talk more later." If they refuse and keep going, not responding until later does not mean you lose, it means you recognize they're heated, and you're going to arbitrarily decide to reopen the conversation at a later time when they're not on tilt. I include this part for the internet warriors who must see a topic through, because many boards violations arise from a sound topic and a once-civil conversation going Super Sayian. Boards are not a crusade, they are a tribunal...not to be confused with The Tribunal, that's not coming back. :P

Stats are a key discussion point...but stats alone shouldn't limit the discussion to "nerf this 52%WR champ!" like a lot of them seem to do. I honestly don't know why people see the posted WR to be a more negative discussion, other than the fact that someone's calling for change (usually in the form of a nerf) and someone is bound to contest their point. Debates and contests are a part of the board...people get out of hand way too fast when someone starts saying "Well, that 52% WR is well earned by [blank]" or "actually, it's 50.2%" when the OP is saying "Nerfstick plz." Evidence is evidence, and some champions are going to naturally fit a meta better than others...it doesn't take a chat war, and half the time the chat war accomplishes nothing anyway (on another note, I swear the half of the time it DOES end up impactful, the champion gets buffed harder instead of nerfed in the next patch...so shut up, guys! xD)

Gameplay to me is specifically stuff that pertains to the game and how it's played.

  • Stats
  • Counterpicks/Safe picks
  • Jungle pathing
  • How NOT to feed assassins
  • Optimal bot/support comps
  • Should I run Ignite or Exhaust on Hail of Blades Nami mid?

It is NOT a place to discuss client issues (Client Discussion is for Client related things) or a place to rant about "my junglers lose me every game!" (RANT is for rants...)

One more thing not in this list: LESS RE-POSTS! It usually gets caught, but the people who spam their posts on literally every sub-board should honestly just get all of them deleted, and probably get a message from you guys to not spam everywhere and only place their thread in the sub-board they feel it makes the most sense in.

y0r1ck4/13/2019, 12:56:47 AM4 votes

I'll talk about what a gameplay post should be first, then I'll try to talk about your given talking points and some others. Tldr; focus on ideas and put them at the forefront, make sure the thread attempts to develop some new and useful, make threads more specific

A gameplay post should be constructive with a debatable thesis or answerable question. It should have some logical points supporting the thesis. Anything extra is a bonus.

So a low effort post is missing a debatable thesis or logical points to back it up. Not very strict guidelines, but they shouldn't be strict anyways.

Posts should remain on topic in general. Humor is fine as long as it's relevant and doesn't take over the intended discussion. By that logic posts that attempt to derail conversation shouldn't be tolerated at all. Joke threads don't belong in gameplay at all, delete them and tell the user to post in memes and games.

Feelings are completely valid but should be supplemented with logical and debatable points in a thread starter. Nobody can debate feelings, so give the people who disagree something to do as well.

Remove upvotes and downvotes. The metric for the success of a post is the success of the ideas within it. Now a thread relies on its title to create clicks, so restrictions should be placed on titles as well.

Stats are valuable for discussion, but only when used well. "X champ has a high winrate, let's compare it to other champs riot has nerfed in the past to see if X is worth nerfing." Some useful analysis of stats is recommended but not required. I think requiring useful analysis of stats is too deep of a rabbit hole, want to avoid as much subjectivity as possible.

Gameplay is for feedback, suggestions, and questions (maybe more I could've missed something). Therefore all posts must clearly state which kind of post it is in the title, along with an accurate description of the content in the post. This way it'll help filter the search function as well. This forces users to contemplate the purpose of their threads before they hit post.

No conspiracy theories or rants about how useless the balance team is. That stuff helps nobody except frustrated people who need to vent.

No posts that attack a group of people, that goes for anyone. This is what's most important to me. If there's just one thing the mods do, let it be the enforcement of this. That doesn't mean no offensive words or anything like that, but posts that attempt to defame groups or users in order to win a debate.

Consolidate discussion. We see several extremely similar topics every day, use megathreads. OR Force new threads to be specific enough to avoid overlap with existing threads. Fine make another nerf riven thread, but show us some new angle.

All of these guidelines and any you do implement will invariably have some element of subjectivity. Please cooperate further with the gameplay community by showing us examples of good/bad posts and recording feedback before you update guidelines. I appreciate the effort, good luck.

Edit - NEVER judge a post based on length. Length should never be a factor in whether a post is good or not.

An example of an ok feedback post: X is annoying. Let me tell you why I think X is annoying without insulting Riot or X mains. Blah blah blah... I'm open to advice.

An example of an unacceptable feedback post: Y is annoying. Riot is stupid for making this champion. Y mains suck. Let me tell you why Y is annoying. Blah blah blah... This champion is forever broken.

Z3Sleeper4/13/2019, 12:06:05 AM4 votes

You don't need any long, in-depth, stat-ridden post to showcase a point.

It can be a post as simple as "Nerf Riven" with no context and it should be a valid post that users can choose to upvote or downvote.

Infernape4/13/2019, 3:57:16 AM3 votes

This isn't necessarily a rule or regulation but I wouldn't mind some way of knowing that a Rioter has at least read a post. Maybe turning the borders of a post red if a Rioter actually opens the thread etc etc.

A lot of people feel like Riot ignores its player base and doesn't bother reading feedback (especially here but for good reason). For all we know Riot could be claiming to read things here but doesn't except when someone directly calls them out (tinfoil hat off).

Milky Thighs4/13/2019, 12:21:20 AM3 votes

We going full reddit I see.

Ifneth4/13/2019, 1:22:20 AM2 votes

Yes to everything. Kill the reeee, please. The biggest issue is tone: bitter, cynical, negative threads cannot make for a good board. Gameplay is no place to vent frustration, especially for toxic people and their mean-spirited or paranoid commentary.

Here’s some things in particular I want gone:

  1. The “fire the balance team” threads. They’re personal attacks. Delete them.

  2. Sarcasm in the title: “I really love League...” followed by a vicious rant.

  3. Champion complaint threads. Yes, even the Yasuo ones.

Linna Excel4/13/2019, 5:21:08 AM2 votes

My first suggestion would be to moderate them less than the curated boards that you guys deleted. I think the standards there, at least for creating a new post was a little too high.

My second suggestion is all threads must have an image of an anime waifu briefly explaining things. Waifus make everything better.

My third suggestion is make a yauso sucks megathread and not mind if people necro it. I mean board vets have heard it for years and basically ignore every thread complaining about Yasuo, Riven, and Vayne.

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3uGfOaP2,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-12T22:58:27.831+0000)

  • Are we killjoys?: As much as we can all enjoy the occasional joke, is Gameplay the best place for them? Do humorous spins on gameplay topics serve to foster meaningful discussion, or are these jokes best made elsewhere?

I'm pretty sure LOL's gameplay is a joke so I don't know why you have a problem with it on the boards.

Seriously though, I think humor is an important part of criticism. I mean think of how effective it can be when someone turns something we are all aware of into a joke. Joking about things and making people laugh about how silly they are can cause people to reflect about the issue.

As an example take the following

Timmy: I heard a leak that riot was going to VGU Shyvana into a sexy midlaner. Ted: Why's that? Timmy: Because AP Shyvana is really hot.

And thus we can sadly realize both that VGUs miss the point of the character and that the live balance team is a clown fiesta right now. Yes I'm over-exaggerating things a little. The best champ is only at a 54% win rate a most of the good ones aren't above 52%. That's pretty good considering. However riot letting AP shyvana be her only option as a champ designed to be a bruiser who punches things... yeah, the clown world balance team is here to stay.

  • Am I....FEELING?!: Instincts help us determine what feel right and wrong, but is feeling something is off enough? Should we be more objective, or are feelings alone an appropriate justification for a post?

So you basically want only logical fact based posts?

  • Rata-Stat-Stat-Stat: Statistics, (Banrate, Winrate, Pickrate, etc) are vital tools in setting up your point, but are stats alone good enough? Is “X champion has a high winrate, where da nerf bat at” a reasonable enough post on it’s own, or does it need more in-depth analysis of the numbers?

So basically you want only uninformed WAAAAAA posts?

... ... ...

Well crap, that rules out everything. Can't make fun of anything or meme it. Can't use emotions. Can't use logic and facts. What are we supposed to do pretend gameplay doesn't exist?

  • It’s who I am DAD!!!: What is the Gameplay board for? Is it for expression, or for discussion? What do you think Gameplay’s purpose is, the content you want to see come from it?

IDK anymore. Devs obviously don't use it outside of a rare case. Are they reading things? IDK. If they aren't all guidelines are purposeless if you are talking about a utilitarian aspect. Another problem is that people think riot cares more about balancing for china than balancing for the US or EU so that puts the utility of the boards in further doubt based on public perception.

I mean I'd like to talk about the game from time to time, but I'm not sure how to do that if both reason and emotion are off the table.

Let me ask why would people rather talk about gameplay than actually play the game? For me, it's late and I'm not in the mood, but I think you need to answer that before making any guidelines. Warning, there's not going to be one answer.

Dope Solo4/13/2019, 12:09:10 AM2 votes

Low effort among a large playerbase is completely subjective, and arbitrarily, perhaps even capriciously, policed by moderators. I'd like to see frequently cited problems (Matchmaking, Yasuo/Riven/Vayne) addressed in the preferred and expected detail by Riot staff, the effort is really completely on them to teach the language. Saying its a 'regional phenomenon', doesn't really cut the mustard, and frankly is low effort. If our numbers aren't correct, then show us numbers/methodology that is. You reap the playerbase you've sown.

Colonel J4/13/2019, 1:57:57 AM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3uGfOaP2,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-12T22:58:27.831+0000)

  • Low Effort Posts: What constitutes a low effort post to you all? A complaint about something, someone saying "THIS IS BS!!!1!", posts that don't particularly facilitate discussion?

I don't consider such a thing exists so long as the "low-effort post" is about Gameplay. I feel subjecting "low-effort posts" to lock/deletions just makes more work for our moderators to both deal with these threads with moderator tools as well as deal with the people who complain their thread was removed. Besides, these "low-effort posts", so long as they aren't being spammed, will be curated by the Gameplay community who will post and vote on the threads. Though I do suggest encouraging Gameplay users to not post in threads they feel are low-effort to decrease back and forth bickering.

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3uGfOaP2,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-12T22:58:27.831+0000)

  • Are we killjoys?: As much as we can all enjoy the occasional joke, is Gameplay the best place for them? Do humorous spins on gameplay topics serve to foster meaningful discussion, or are these jokes best made elsewhere?

Jokes should be fine here. I haven't seen it being an issue and it would just make more work for moderators.

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3uGfOaP2,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-12T22:58:27.831+0000)

  • Am I....FEELING?!: Instincts help us determine what feel right and wrong, but is feeling something is off enough? Should we be more objective, or are feelings alone an appropriate justification for a post?

Feelings are fine. See the above response. If you want people being more objective and analytical with their threads just bring back Gameplay+.

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3uGfOaP2,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-12T22:58:27.831+0000)

  • Rata-Stat-Stat-Stat: Statistics, (Banrate, Winrate, Pickrate, etc) are vital tools in setting up your point, but are stats alone good enough? Is “X champion has a high winrate, where da nerf bat at” a reasonable enough post on it’s own, or does it need more in-depth analysis of the numbers?

Questions like this should be determined by the users of Gameplay in the threads and not by a moderator.

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3uGfOaP2,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-12T22:58:27.831+0000)

  • It’s who I am DAD!!!: What is the Gameplay board for? Is it for expression, or for discussion? What do you think Gameplay’s purpose is, the content you want to see come from it?

Gameplay is for discussion about Gameplay/Balance. I prefer Gameplay's old name "Game and Balance" myself.

Saianna4/13/2019, 12:41:54 AM1 votes

So we're asking for your help. How would you work towards creating an environment where people can express their passion in a productive way?

I don't get it. What exactly you want from us? This "question" doesn't leave anything for us to say actually.

I could, however, throw you few things I'd love to be improved. That could help relive at least a small part of the frustration while using Boards.

  1. Could moderators stop with the 'creative interpretation' of the board rules? Where they punish users for things they interpreted to be negative maybe due to their experiences or different opinions? I've been banned for 14 days TWICE by moderator stretching the guidelines for their convenience.
  2. Could moderators stop brainlessly defending each other when a player tries to solve the issue via discord? I've tried it twice. In both cases I could have just talked to the wall behind the monitor for similar effect. The option to appeal is a sad joke. A mod will never go against other mod, even if they see the problem. It's a feature meant only to keep possible drama spilling out to public.
  3. Could moderators stop threating Riot Company as a living being, a God they pray to? Saying a "bad word" (which isn't really a bad word tbh) towards Riot Company (especially when its deserved) is not breaking any rules. Unless you stretch them untill it is (see point 1)
  4. Could moderators stop removing posts, that do not break the guidelines, only because those posts were reported? I've made a short post in exactly the same tone as the person I talked to made to me. My post was removed, his wasn't affected. Well, I guess you win the conversations by banning the opposition. Silly me, should have knew better.

The moderation I had "pleasure" to meet on those forums is just bad. Sorry if that hurts your feelings, but that's how it is.

I'd love to share the reasons / creative interpretation / of 3 bans I received on Boards, but if anything I can bet a fat $ this would be used to ban me again, most likely permenently.

ll3lackbeard4/13/2019, 2:45:41 AM1 votes

What is the true purpose of the “gameplay” boards? Hopefully it’s to improve the game. I have been on these boards for over two years now. We need to see more from RIOT how these post are changing anything. I think a lot of people are starting to think these posts are a waste of time as nothing changes.

Currently I see numerous post the last few months on matchmaking being horrible. Ever single day its the same thing. What is anyone doing about this?

Bottom line this board results in nothing that I have seen. If I am wrong please post changes that were made due to this board. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out something is broken when 60% of the post are about it. I don’t think we have a filtering problem. We need action.