Fervor of Battle deals more damage than you would heal for with Warlords at 20% HP

Maikal·2/29/2016, 4:39:06 AM·16 votes·3,718 views

At almost all points of the game, 4 stacks of fervor will deal more damage than warlords would heal you for at 20% or less HP on most champions. Unless you build full AD and have 50%+ crit with an item 3031, then it takes 7 - 8 stacks of FoB that late in the game.

On top of that, fervor scales with spells in that they generate 2 stacks, while warlord's has no interaction with spells whatsoever.

Both masteries are meant for auto attackers, but fervor takes very little to deal more damage than you would heal for instead with warlords during the vast majority of the game. Late game, it's still stronger it just requires you to have 8 stacks, which is far easier to acquire and maintain than to survive at 20% or less HP.

tl;dr warlord's bloodlust sucks except on Olaf. Needs better scaling to be equal in power to FoB

41 Comments

mogonk2/29/2016, 11:52:13 AM15 votes

So you're comparing the absolute magnitude of a healing ability with the absolute magnitude of a damaging ability and concluding that one is better than the other.

That makes zero sense.

WukongMain2/29/2016, 4:45:30 AM10 votes

sometimes its not about doing more damage. its about surviving. and yes you could argue doing more damage is the same as surviving because the enemy is dead but sometimes even more damage isn't as useful.

Warlord's is good when you wanna sustain more. for example, you're an ad carry and your support is Soraka, you may as well take warlords for more sustain just to make it even more broken lol.

Meep Man2/29/2016, 12:35:12 PM5 votes

In that case, Soraka's W needs to be buffed to heal an equivalent amount to the damage dealt by most single target abilities that are close to it's cool downs. Then they cancel out right and are equal and balanced right?

Mecha MaIphite2/29/2016, 12:38:13 PM4 votes

You can drain off of minions with bonus life steal, but you can't stack fervor on minions.

Cronofuge2/29/2016, 11:49:09 AM3 votes

On bruisers you just take grasp and do more healing than warlords and more damage than fervor so I wouldn't take it on anyone not Olaf.

As for adcs the only ones I could really rationalize it on were Vayne, Draven, and bottom Graves. I like it on Vayne since with her buffed autos she lifesteals extra and if I got into a fight where I would have a decently stacked fervor I'd probably win it regardless. Honestly I feel like either choice works well on her though. Next is Draven, since like Vayne he has extra damage autos you can lifesteal on, he likes burst trades so fervor doesn't do him justice, and any extended fight you take when you're catching axes you'll probably win without needing fervors damage and any fight you take while dropping axes you'll lose even with its damage. As for adc Graves fervor just seems terrible since you can't stack it easily and it applies rarely. Point blank autos with him heal an absurd amount.

So the common theme seems to be champions with autos that exceed the standard 1.0 AD ratio. Given that I'd imagine it'd work well on Nasus but maybe not so much on Riven, the other champion known for abusing lifesteal with higher ratio autos.

Even then, thunderlords still works pretty well on all of those adcs if you want to take trades. Of course the damaging keystones are going to outweigh sustain keystones in direct trades, that applies to items as well. The adc that buys the pickaxe first is going to outduel the adc that bought vamp scepter the first back. It's the ability to nullify the bad trade by healing off creeps after the fight that sustain draws its strength.

Dar Raksada2/29/2016, 10:29:40 AM3 votes

Thing is. Warlord's works on minions, FoB doesn't. Getting enough stacks in lane is rare, while lifesteal helps (almost) all ad champs in lane.

Edit: I have no clue about the tuning, it might be undertuned as riot has hated healing since sometime during s2. But I just thought it might be an important factor against to keep in mind.

TheVishual2/29/2016, 10:46:08 AM3 votes

{quoted}

At almost all points of the game, 4 stacks of fervor will deal more damage than warlords would heal you for at 20% or less HP on most champions. Unless you build full AD and have 50%+ crit with an item 3031, then it takes 7 - 8 stacks of FoB that late in the game.

On top of that, fervor scales with spells in that they generate 2 stacks, while warlord's has no interaction with spells whatsoever.

Both masteries are meant for auto attackers, but fervor takes very little to deal more damage than you would heal for instead with warlords during the vast majority of the game. Late game, it's still stronger it just requires you to have 8 stacks, which is far easier to acquire and maintain than to survive at 20% or less HP.

tl;dr warlord's bloodlust sucks except on Olaf. Needs better scaling to be equal in power to FoB

Fervor doesn't add AD it adds on-hit damage kind of like devourer... you don't get added lifesteal from FoB

Quepha2/29/2016, 5:37:03 AM2 votes

Yeah, I don't get it. Warlord's just seems to be pathetic.

Even saying it's good for Olaf seems wrong, his winrate dropped like a rock when people started taking it on him

Gnart Even Close2/29/2016, 1:22:53 PM2 votes

i think the problem isn't that warlord's needs a buff, it's that fervor needs a nerf. it's ridiculous on adcs and frankly abusive on devourer junglers.

MunchCrunchLunch2/29/2016, 9:19:32 AM1 votes

hextech gunblade equal 15% lifesteal off the damage you do with frevor so.

Earthlord Jazz2/29/2016, 9:10:50 AM1 votes

And this is why healing abilities have poorer scaling compared to most damaging abilities

Only Play Darius2/29/2016, 8:15:11 AM1 votes

After the warlords rework, I started using fervor on Yasuo. Works quite well

Weathered2/29/2016, 12:42:37 PM1 votes

Olaf item 3072 Warlords is still probably going to enjoy 60% lifesteal at low health. Try it, its fun if your ahead.

Titanium702/29/2016, 1:29:30 PM1 votes

H4H4H4...

Warlords is broken in it core - 20% Lifesteal for doing nothing is stupid!

Yesterday I played Cait, got a double at bot and wanted to recall, when Mid-Jhin showed up - I outplayed him at tower and he dropped to 20% when I was a 100%! I was not in base at this point and he had a pickaxe.

This dude DUELED me after I E'd into his direction!!! I dealt ZERO DMG! Sure how could I against a Level 4 Bloodthirster! Luckyly I got Mana for a last Q to finally kill him and get out with 30HP.... I WAS FULL LIFE against a Jhin with ~200HP!

This Mastery turns everyone into freaking Olaf!

Sure in Lategame when high amounts of Lifesteal are a common stat, this Mastery drops a little.... but Level 1 Bloodthirster is bonkers!

Spoofghoul2/29/2016, 2:54:28 PM1 votes

cant they make it just plain damage vamp like item 3146

Fanny Forecast2/29/2016, 9:20:00 AM1 votes

I think that Warlords is meant for people with healing in their kit (Warwick, Olaf, Sion [maybe]) and no one else really. Either that or people who feel they need survivability > damage (so Vayne would be better with warlords, imo. I don't play Vayne tho, just from her kit)

I saw a challenger vid that recommended Warlords on ALL top/jungle Bruisers (Jax, Irelia, etc.) so I tried it on Irelia and I was doing such a significantly lower amt of damage I did NOT like it.

ModCaptainMårvelous2/29/2016, 3:46:19 PM1 votes

Fervor for late game. Warlords for Early game.

Not to mention Warlords is an option you take if you don't see yourself taking life-steal on a champion.

MisterLayzee2/29/2016, 9:26:16 AM1 votes

Warlord's Bloodlust is, IMO, still mostly just for normal AA type adcs. (Ashe, Trist, Jinx, etc) Because FoB takes too long to stack on them for it to be effective in most cases.

Sasogwa2/29/2016, 8:42:00 PM1 votes

Tbh Warlord's is pretty balanced. It's quite good on champions that have insane damage lategame because it grants them a lot of in-fight sustain. But fervour is broken. It's good that it's been nerfed because it was beyond broken, but now it's still superstrong. I would nerf fervour over buffing warlords.