Riot destroying Jungle role once again

2 Cute for VI··88 votes·18,481 views

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/MQob4lFt-upcoming-jungle-changes-for-810

Basically for people who dont want to check the link heres what they want to implement.

YET ANOTHER xp nerf to the jungle, you get level 3 after 4 camps/ 3 camps if you include krugs AND ALMOST NO ONE does krugs early game and heres the thing >>> 2 camps and a scuttle.

WOW, how can 2 camps and a scuttle be more xp than 4 camps :shockface: .

well the thing is, riots idea of jungle balancing, they want to reduce the early ganks of the junglers and "increase jungle vs jungle interaction"

HOW WE DO THAT? LETS MAKE SCUTTLE WORTH 170 XP INSTEAD OF THE ORIGINAL 10 XP AND NOW THERE WILL BE ONLY ONE SCUTTLE AT A GIVEN TIME.

Only 1 scuttle at a given time that spawns randomly, so early junglers who can 1v1 easily and can farm jungle camps fast and healthily will benefit greatly from this so they will gank even more often now, while junglers who are weak duelists and farm slower will feel even more pressured and effectively be useless. SO WHAT HAS RIOT ACCOMPLISHED BY THIS? WHAT A %%%%ING JOKE

The jungle role is already so weak compared to its former glory days, and with this its gonna be EVEN MORE SHITIER, there is no fun to play jungle under these conditions anymore.

Want me to fix your stupid game for you? you unprofessional company that only thinks random shitty ideas that is contrary to what LITERALLY EVERYONE wants, is a good and healthy change for the game??

*Reduce camp spawn time so that junglers can farm properly instead of relying on taxing and also balance between farming and ganking.

*Remove catchup xp COMPLETELY (this also benefits other roles and a healthier environment where a skillful player can carry easier)

^ these 2 changes are enough but there are other suggestions that i THINK will be healthier for the game

*Remove the current RNG drag system and return old dragon

The idea behind that change if implemented, is to make the game more fair for teams to make a comeback using their skills, if enemy team had a small lead and infernal was up, they will take infernal and BOOM 8% dmg which makes a notable difference and might effectively secure the lead permanently if the team with infernal dont mess up much, such is the case with each dragon. This also emphasizes a skillful use of the gold granted by the old dragon, where good players will capitalize on their lead or make a slight comeback with the gold and xp and bad players will not know how to use the gold lead, its infinitely better than this Rng shit

*Return the jg xp back to the way it was

That way junglers will have more of an effect in the game later on and not reside to be a taxing machine especially since currently teammates take camps mid to late game and with the removal with catchup xp completely, only skilled junglers will keep the lead and a skilled enough jungler can invade the enemy jungler and effectively shut him down. This also encourages junglers to farm have a balance between farming and ganking , less ganking and more farming compared to this meta we have buff camp buff gank/camp lane, for it will make junglers able to carry themselves so they dont actually need to have this belief of "im useless late game so might as well just gank or else ill lose the game" , it also encourages farm heavy junglers like master yi to be picked and to have variable playstyles in the jungle again. This change alongside the catchup xp removal, will encourage a jungle vs jungle interaction that u so desire that requires ACTUAL skills ,and ultimately make players improve faster with trial and error, not the joke of a change to scuttle you want to make riot.

This is my idea of how jungle can be better for each of us, for each role.

~~pleas of a lonely jungler main

80 Comments

Craft Zeppelin57 votes

The balance team needs to be kicked out. Like seriously. This is one of the most over-the-top ridiculous propositions they have made in the past few months.

3:00 FIRSTBLOOD! Khazix GGEZ. NOOBZ

3:30: Khazix 2nd kill. because he knows you are lvl 2. GGNOOBZ XXXXDDD

I can literally see this happening.

Marothennan16 votes

[{quoted}](name=Craft Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3U7ErAo4,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-28T14:26:01.813+0000)

The balance team needs to be kicked out. Like seriously. This is one of the most over-the-top ridiculous propositions they have made in the past few months.

3:00 FIRSTBLOOD! Khazix GGEZ. NOOBZ

3:30: Khazix 2nd kill. because he knows you are lvl 2. GGNOOBZ XXXXDDD

I can literally see this happening.

Kicked without getting their last salary

BALDG1VEN BOOMER1 votes

That's a Kha'Zix problem, not a jungle problem.

kargish47 votes

XinZhao LeeSin Rengar Olaf Trundle Warwick Graves

Will be doing the same shit

KlydeFrog1 votes

And I'll just play ivern set you all behind by stealing your buff and run away laughing

kargish22 votes

Everybody knows Ivern invades, people ward against him if they got even just a slight amount of experience fighting him.

KlydeFrog2 votes

Umm they do it wrong lol. Ward your buff it does no good. The proper way to play ivern is . Passive your own buff then go Smite the enemy buff and then go back and passive the scuttle the take your own passive gromp wolves go back to river take scuttle gromp and wolves . That's how your supposed to do it. Not immediately run over to the enemy buff and take it

statelesskiller5 votes

its true you cant stop ivern from taking it in most scenarios, but the goal is kill him dead after he takes it. preferably give the kill to your strongest early game champ whoever that is. this makes ivern's stealing of your buff entirely not worth it. then the jungler for free goes and takes iverns marked buff

of course expecting this on solo que is night impossible

Quort12 votes

I'm thinking about how Kindred's first mark is always Scuttle crab so that'll be even more contested now and Kindred tends to be pretty weak early.

Craft Zeppelin14 votes

{quoted}

I'm thinking about how Kindred's first mark is always Scuttle crab so that'll be even more contested now and Kindred tends to be pretty weak early.

Wait till you play fking fiddlesticks yet again neglected by the balance team lmao

Quort1 votes

I used to love Fiddle but I haven't played him in a while. :(

MorganFreemanBot3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Craft Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3U7ErAo4,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-28T14:26:01.813+0000)

The balance team needs to be kicked out. Like seriously. This is one of the most over-the-top ridiculous propositions they have made in the past few months.

3:00 FIRSTBLOOD! Khazix GGEZ. NOOBZ

3:30: Khazix 2nd kill. because he knows you are lvl 2. GGNOOBZ XXXXDDD

I can literally see this happening.

It won't.

Kha'zix is a solid ganker, but his current clear (at 3 camps) hurts him. Having to clear 4 camps is going to put him in a serious danger zone health wise, and he's not a great level 2 fighter.

Furthermore, Kz just.. isn't a great duelist eary on. He's going to be nightmarish to champions who are worse than him (more dangerous clears / weaker early game duelists), but the champions who aren't 'weak' early on in jungle..

Let's just say that if the enemy jungler is Warwick XinZhao Trundle RekSai MasterYi Udyr LeeSin , Kha'zix is going to be the one getting murdered at first scuttle / hard invaded at 3 minutes by a healthier, higher level, and more dangerous jungle.

Grimspeake31 votes

Its gonna make games so fucking snowbally. If u thought gg better jungler wins before just wait and see when the game is decided on whos 5v4 when skuttle spawns at 1:40

Yara04 votes

{quoted}

Its gonna make games so fucking snowbally. If u thought gg better jungler wins before just wait and see when the game is decided on whos 5v4 when skuttle spawns at 1:40

oh no the laners that know how important scuttle is now will rotate it wont be jg v jg its gonna be a lvl 3 fucking gang bang from both sides of the map because the thing will be so important for your jungler and if your jg cant get to it you will want to deny their jg from getting it.

So this will actually increase jg and lane interaction but this time the lanes are gonna fuck over the jg instead of the jg fucking ganking lvl 2 and shitting on you. Kinda like how people camp Kindred mark so she cant get it and they might get a free pick.

and i wouldnt be surprised if the team just funnels the xp into the adc or mid instead of the jg.

Disulfiram2 votes

{quoted}

and i wouldnt be surprised if the team just funnels the xp into the adc or mid instead of the jg.

This is 100% what is going to happen, especially if you factor in the catchup experience mechanic.

2 Cute for VI1 votes

{quoted}

This is 100% what is going to happen, especially if you factor in the catchup experience mechanic.

even more of a reason for riot to listen to my post and our pleas and remove this shitty comeback xp

2Charmnot2Charm1 votes

oh no the laners that know how important scuttle is now will rotate

Which can't happen if you choose a laner that's weak early game so once again mid laners that don't have god like wave clear like Taliyah are screwed AGAIN.

It was already a pain playing anything non meta now we have to put up with this bs?

I'll just main ADC/Support for the rest of the season screw mid lane.

RainXBlade20 votes

Can we just go back to the old jungle days where you didn't have to wait for a million years for your camps to spawn?

Also, god I hope that scuttle change does not go to live. This game has already enough cancerous kinds of RNG, examples being crit and Klepto.

TS Media10 votes

I'm a simple man. Catch up removal suggested? Upvotes.

Ratpie5 votes

I have played jungle since before the map visual changes and this season is easily the least fun for playing in the jungle. There are a few hyper carries (almost all AD burst assassin types). Out of 20 of the top win rate junglers there are only like 2 or 3 AP champs. Tanks are eliminated out of the jungle, with onyl a couple 'tanky' types even viable (and even then some of them are just built for damage). The vast majority of top 20 junglers are oriented towards short burst damage for quick kills.

These changes are only going to make it worse. Apparently we are all supposed to play the same few champs in jungle unless we want to be a weight on our team for other people to carry. RIP Skarner who literally is built around jungle play. His passive only works in the jungle, yet he gets raped by champs in the jungle and it will only get worse.

Up through Season 7 I felt like I could take 30+ different champs into jungle and at least hold my own. Now there are only a few that will.

Rito, maybe you should just disable 90% of your champs for each role, you would get the same results.

The Yetii Rider5 votes

Additional context - Scuttle is much tankier early. So it's going to take more time to kill it, even for the high clear speed duelists.

But yeah, the change is pretty bad.

NocturnalSheild4 votes

Reduce camp spawn time so that junglers can farm properly instead of relying on taxing and also balance between farming and ganking. Remove catchup xp COMPLETELY (this also benefits other roles and a healthier environment where a skillful player can carry easier)

Really? You realize that doing that would do LITERALLY the same thing as you were bitching about riot doing? Right?,

so early junglers who can 1v1 easily and can farm jungle camps fast and healthily will benefit greatly from this so they will gank even more often now, while junglers who are weak duelists and farm slower will feel even more pressured and effectively be useless. SO WHAT HAS RIOT ACCOMPLISHED BY THIS? WHAT A %%%%ING JOKE

2 Cute for VI14 votes

{quoted}

Reduce camp spawn time so that junglers can farm properly instead of relying on taxing and also balance between farming and ganking. Remove catchup xp COMPLETELY (this also benefits other roles and a healthier environment where a skillful player can carry easier)

Really? You realize that doing that would do LITERALLY the same thing as you were bitching about riot doing? Right?,

so early junglers who can 1v1 easily and can farm jungle camps fast and healthily will benefit greatly from this so they will gank even more often now, while junglers who are weak duelists and farm slower will feel even more pressured and effectively be useless. SO WHAT HAS RIOT ACCOMPLISHED BY THIS? WHAT A %%%%ING JOKE

in what way? i just want riot to return back the old jg xp without the catchup xp , so basically there would be a balance between farming and ganking like old seasons.

TS Media9 votes

People like him weren't around before catch up xp was a thing... the spoiled brats being compensated for bad play I tell ya.

2 Cute for VI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=TS Media,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3U7ErAo4,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-04-28T17:54:35.920+0000)

People like him weren't around before catch up xp was a thing... the spoiled brats being compensated for bad play I tell ya.

just camp top and not farm for literally a min >>>> gets kill bec enemy laner just walks up and gets ccd >>>> same level as the enemy jungler who has been actually farming both jungles, fucking joke

PaffWasTaken4 votes

The jungle role is already so weak compared to its former glory days

...what

Velasan3 votes

Can confirm, most people ignore krugs all together until they come back with some AOE damage.

They take more time than they are worth when you could just go gank someone.

Doesn't affect champs with fast clears and good ganks anyways.

CoffeeAndSadness3 votes

Riot fucks EVERYTHING up to the point that slowly the game is becomming more and more unplayable. in the next patch they may as well give everyone one billion hitpoints and remove all items from the store and make everyone do one tick of damage regardless.

TheShadowReaperX2 votes

so with the .. they want to reduce early ganks part .... the just jacked up kayns passive a lot for ganking early. literally wanting him to gank early and be rewarded for it

CytheGuy2 votes

They realize that instead of encouraging 1 on 1 jungle time, lanes are just gonna go shit on the poor soul who decided to take scuttle alone

SpongebobIsLife2 votes

what do you mean the jg role is so weak compared to its glory days? Jg is honestly busted atm, largely bc of catch up exp. 2nd best role for carrying solo q imo.

Ratpie3 votes

{quoted}

what do you mean the jg role is so weak compared to its glory days? Jg is honestly busted atm, largely bc of catch up exp. 2nd best role for carrying solo q imo.

Hahaha.....this is busted....you didn't play when there was sated devourer? If I didn't have 25 kills a game, I was disappointed.

But for real, the majority of champs that used to go into jungle are weak right now. There are a few overtuned ones causing problems. Fix the overtuned champs and jungle is actually weaker. It is so easy to invade the jungle right now and just crap on junglers. People complain about getting ganked 2 or 3 times. This season as jungler I have either top, mid, jungler, or all 3 invading jungle multiple times, especially now that warding is nerfed. Now I buy a control ward to start almost every game.

Milleinia2 votes

It's okay guys rito just gonna do as they always have, nerf something else (besides adc obvi) so everyone can complain about that next month. I'm just waiting to see if the balance team gonna do something stupider for example says "hmm we nerfed support shields and heals but now they're weak so NOW WE MUST GIVE HEALS AND SHIELDS A CRIT CHANCE" kinda bs. Wouldn't be surprised at this point

2 Cute for VI1 votes

{quoted}

It's okay guys rito just gonna do as they always have, nerf something else (besides adc obvi) so everyone can complain about that next month. I'm just waiting to see if the balance team gonna do something stupider for example says "hmm we nerfed support shields and heals but now they're weak so NOW WE MUST GIVE HEALS AND SHIELDS A CRIT CHANCE" kinda bs. Wouldn't be surprised at this point

really wouldnt surprise me either because if its something stupid, random, and unneeded , riot loves it :)

Bec the balance team believes that a "creative" idea is better than ACTUALLY LISTENING to their players and fixing the game.

Milleinia1 votes

[{quoted}](name=VI Radio,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3U7ErAo4,comment-id=00130000,timestamp=2018-04-29T21:16:58.289+0000)

really wouldnt surprise me either because if its something stupid, random, and unneeded , riot loves it :)

Bec the balance team believes that a "creative" idea is better than ACTUALLY LISTENING to their players and fixing the game.

lmao yeah "creative" I can see them say something like "it's okay the heals and shields can crit as compensation for nerfing them, but don't worry they won't crit 100%, only 85%" or if they want to get meme'd on they can just do 100% to 95%

Saianna2 votes

Only 1 scuttle at a given time that spawns randomly, so early junglers who can 1v1 easily and can farm jungle camps fast and healthily will benefit greatly from this so they will gank even more often now, while junglers who are weak duelists and farm slower will feel even more pressured and effectively be useless. SO WHAT HAS RIOT ACCOMPLISHED BY THIS? WHAT A %%%%ING JOKE

That's what happens when you hire your family members or friends who are totally clueless about the job.

TempName748142 votes

(chanting) bring back madstone! bring back madstone! bring back madstone! bring back madstone!

2 Cute for VI1 votes

{quoted}

(chanting) bring back madstone! bring back madstone! bring back madstone! bring back madstone!

omg, pls...do it omg old jg items... T^T [sg-soraka]

SergeantScuttler2 votes

[{quoted}](name=VI Radio,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3U7ErAo4,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-28T14:03:30.516+0000)

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/MQob4lFt-upcoming-jungle-changes-for-810

Basically for people who dont want to check the link heres what they want to implement.

YET ANOTHER xp nerf to the jungle, you get level 3 after 4 camps/ 3 camps if you include krugs AND ALMOST NO ONE does krugs early game and heres the thing >>> 2 camps and a scuttle.

WOW, how can 2 camps and a scuttle be more xp than 4 camps :shockface: .

well the thing is, riots idea of jungle balancing, they want to reduce the early ganks of the junglers and "increase jungle vs jungle interaction"

HOW WE DO THAT? LETS MAKE SCUTTLE WORTH 170 XP INSTEAD OF THE ORIGINAL 10 XP AND NOW THERE WILL BE ONLY ONE SCUTTLE AT A GIVEN TIME.

Only 1 scuttle at a given time that spawns randomly, so early junglers who can 1v1 easily and can farm jungle camps fast and healthily will benefit greatly from this so they will gank even more often now, while junglers who are weak duelists and farm slower will feel even more pressured and effectively be useless. SO WHAT HAS RIOT ACCOMPLISHED BY THIS? WHAT A %%%%ING JOKE

The jungle role is already so weak compared to its former glory days, and with this its gonna be EVEN MORE SHITIER, there is no fun to play jungle under these conditions anymore.

*Want me to fix your stupid game for you? you unprofessional company that only thinks random shitty ideas that is contrary to what LITERALLY EVERYONE wants, is a good and healthy change for the game??

*Reduce camp spawn time so that junglers can farm properly instead of relying on taxing and also balance between farming and ganking. Remove catchup xp COMPLETELY (this also benefits other roles and a healthier environment where a skillful player can carry easier)

^ these 2 changes are enough but there are other suggestions that i THINK will be healthier for the game

*Remove the current RNG drag system and return old dragon

The idea behind that change if implemented, is to make the game more fair for teams to make a comeback using their skills, if enemy team had a small lead and infernal was up, they will take infernal and BOOM 8% dmg which makes a notable difference and might effectively secure the lead permanently if the team with infernal dont mess up much, such is the case with each dragon.

*Return the jg xp back to the way it was

That way junglers will have more of an effect in the game and with the removal with catchup xp completely, only skilled junglers will keep the lead and a skilled enough jungler can invade the enemy jungler and effectively shut him down. This change alongside the catchup xp removal, will encourage a jungle vs jungle matchup that requires skills and make players improve faster with trial and error, not the joke of a change to scuttle you want to make riot.

This is my idea of how jungle can be better for each of us, for each role.

~~pleas of a lonely jungler main

Does this mean they're buffing Krugs and will this be an overall XP nerf or just for early game? JG isn't even good no matter how much laners want to say otherwise.

N3mO062 votes

I totally agree with you expecially on dragon: with the old one ,which used to give gold, you needed skill in order to trasform that gold in a lead (right items and a good teamfight); this new one it's total rng and the idea behind elder dragon is terrible for a competitive game based on snowball: you take this buff (no problem doing it because these dragons are week af, even warwick can solo them lv 4) and even a support can hurt like a track thanks to true damage. You don't need the skill to trasform the value/potential in effectiveness/real power, it' like Math! Now my number is bigger and easier to used so I won. Another porblem here is the fight with dragon: if the team who is fighting the dragon is the one who is winning, more luckly will be also the one who will take it for several reasons: 1 higher smite 2 general stronger team 3 dragon is too easily tankable You should no be able to regen or life steal on dragon and dragons should deal a good amount of aoe damage to all team( maybe reduced if all members are there to do it) so you give a chance, a little possibilty for the other team to fight for it because now if your bot is losing, you have no access to dragon. Dragon should be the card that makes you shuffle the deck and not another way to snowball with just braindead numbers.

2 Cute for VI1 votes

{quoted}

I totally agree with you expecially on dragon: with the old one ,which used to give gold, you needed skill in order to trasform that gold in a lead (right items and a good teamfight); this new one it's total rng and the idea behind elder dragon is terrible for a competitive game based on snowball: you take this buff (no problem doing it because these dragons are week af, even warwick can solo them lv 4) and even a support can hurt like a track thanks to true damage. You don't need the skill to trasform the value/potential in effectiveness/real power, it' like Math! Now my number is bigger and easier to used so I won. Another porblem here is the fight with dragon: if the team who is fighting the dragon is the one who is winning, more luckly will be also the one who will take it for several reasons: 1 higher smite 2 general stronger team 3 dragon is too easily tankable You should no be able to regen or life steal on dragon and dragons should deal a good amount of aoe damage to all team( maybe reduced if all members are there to do it) so you give a chance, a little possibilty for the other team to fight for it because now if your bot is losing, you have no access to dragon. Dragon should be the card that makes you shuffle the deck and not another way to snowball with just braindead numbers.

thats what ive been saying since the dragon of season 5 , the old one was so much better, u needed to transfer that gold into items and make use of said bonus gold from drag, not to mention the xp u get from it for all team.

The old drag encouraged a skillwise gameplay more than an Rng lucky based shit where if u get the lead cos u play early game champs and by luck u get infernal first drag and u take it and its just gg if ur team doesent mess up

this is retarded, whoever came up with this idea is retarded for real

Fear the Kayn2 votes

Worst League changes I've seen in a while.

PopcornBunni2 votes

Warwick Vi Kayn 60+% winrate incoming

º Kindred º2 votes

LC$ OMEGALUL

thanosmystery2 votes

your rank must be paper 5 - and it means something when coming from me

ITz Revan2 votes

Haven't played in two weeks because the games imbalance. I decided to take a break to see if riot would fix things for balance but they're making it even worse?

2 Cute for VI1 votes

they just roll some dice and see if shit will work or if the problem will fix itself, fucking joke of a balance team lol, lead by a fuckin silver

only zhule1 votes

So if i’m Understanding op correctly. They would enjoy being in a position where if THEY fell behind there was basically no way to catch up short of the enemy throwing the game

ForeverLaxx2 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3U7ErAo4,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2018-04-28T20:31:25.075+0000)

So if i’m Understanding op correctly. They would enjoy being in a position where if THEY fell behind there was basically no way to catch up short of the enemy throwing the game

Why is that a problem? Is it so wrong to want to be punished for playing poorly, or on the flip side, rewarded for playing correctly? Do people not want to improve?

There's too much focus in this game on protecting players from themselves. A bunch of "feel good" changes that do nothing but harm the health of the game. Kits that look flashy and are relatively interesting to use at first, but quickly boil down to formulaic "paint by numbers" rotations that are easy to execute and frustrating to be on the receiving end of. All this for the sake of making one person feel good and to have an audience OOoooh and AHhhhh over.

If you fall behind, the goal is to drag the game out longer to reduce your opponent's lead, but unfortunately Riot has made that tactic impossible against all but the most inept of teams. This is the entire reason a "catch up mechanic" exists, and I completely loathe it and everything related to it.

2 Cute for VI1 votes

{quoted}

Why is that a problem? Is it so wrong to want to be punished for playing poorly, or on the flip side, rewarded for playing correctly? Do people not want to improve?

There's too much focus in this game on protecting players from themselves. A bunch of "feel good" changes that do nothing but harm the health of the game. Kits that look flashy and are relatively interesting to use at first, but quickly boil down to formulaic "paint by numbers" rotations that are easy to execute and frustrating to be on the receiving end of. All this for the sake of making one person feel good and to have an audience OOoooh and AHhhhh over.

If you fall behind, the goal is to drag the game out longer to reduce your opponent's lead, but unfortunately Riot has made that tactic impossible against all but the most inept of teams. This is the entire reason a "catch up mechanic" exists, and I completely loathe it and everything related to it.

Preach

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