Keystones are the main reason the game is how it is, nerf them or remove them

TrapsYummy·12/11/2018, 2:57:06 PM·155 votes·20,089 views

Back in season 6 there was a reason that jungles champs like Hecarim, JarvanIV, and Gragas among others weren't treated like assassins that could absolutely 100-0 you in half of a second if you ever dared to walk up. The damage keystones were limited and only one granted access to immediate burst being Thunderlords. It was better to go a keystone like courage of the colossus or strength of the ages to capitalize on your CC to shields in a teamfight or just go for the raw hp.

Now, not ONLY has the damage of thunderlords been amplified with electrocute, but even more "le epix oneshot xdd" keystones such as dark harvest and predator, along with other damage keystones have made their way into the game. Courage of the colossus was considered cancer when it just granted a shield for landing a CC. Now? You will hear predator go off and have an 800 ms hecarim erase 3/4ths of your healthbar with just an EQ. The older keystones also had their own amount of counterplay as well. Don't want to get destroyed by the enemy darius in lane? Just don't go for long trades to let his fervor stack up. Now? Tough luck pall, better wait until he doesn't have anything to auto to even attempt to trade.

Keystones have not improved the game and have only given everyone more tools to cheese others with.

79 Comments

jäger der pisse12/11/2018, 6:41:40 PM85 votes

honestly yea can we just go back to runes and masteries

Support 4 Lyfe12/11/2018, 7:03:47 PM27 votes

I just want my old Windspeaker's back, Riot please Aery is useless item 3070

D4M2X012/11/2018, 9:07:20 PM20 votes

domination keystones and conqueror should just be deleted, the rest of the keystones are fine

Gramps6912/11/2018, 9:14:24 PM15 votes

Riot Please.

11 of the 17 keystones give pure damage boosts, whether directly (DH, Comet, Electrocute) or indirectly through attack speed buffs (Hail of Blades, Lethal Tempo).

A large portion of the community has been asking for over a year to have damage reduced, yet all that's happened is two new keystones that also grant more damage were added.

Boiled Triangles12/12/2018, 1:11:00 AM8 votes

At this point I think it's safe to say that Riot just doesn't give a shit about this issue. It's honestly sad how out of touch the company has become, especially the balance team.

FixThisBSGame12/12/2018, 2:56:03 AM8 votes

I still find it funny that Riot thought this new Rune System would allow for more "flexibility."

chide da jungler12/12/2018, 7:11:35 PM7 votes

This post is completely right. There is too much synergy with some champions while others don't even have a keystone that is viable for them.

Get rid of keystones. Balance around champion base stats and items. Let's get this game stable again please.

cabbysb12/12/2018, 7:27:38 AM6 votes

keystones are garbage. so is duskblade. too many stackable one hit buffs. it totally undoes why this game became popular, which was extended interaction. revert

BLIGHTBRINGER12/12/2018, 9:24:14 AM4 votes

I think Items also contribute to a lot of this...

item 3078 item 3147 item 3095 item 3031 item 3285 item 3100 item 3071 item 3124 item 3089 item 3135

BigSquirrell12/11/2018, 8:34:57 PM4 votes

I'd be interested in seeing what it would look like if Riot removed keystones and kept the rest. That's where the majority of extra damage from runes is coming from, I'm pretty sure, so if they weren't there and the others were kept, it would make things feel less burst-heavy. If they really want to make compensation changes, make it so people can choose three options from two trees instead of four from one and two from the other, or do three from one, two from another, and one from any tree, including an extra from the trees already taken if someone wants to.

Arammus12/11/2018, 11:16:48 PM3 votes

ignoring conquerer and domination, is it really keystones that make the game broken? in my opinion, not at all.

TonyTonyMordecai12/11/2018, 10:50:35 PM3 votes

Keystones just need to go. That or remove the new rune system and give back the old runes, without the "hidden power" of the masteries/new runes.

Kaisha12/12/2018, 10:24:12 PM3 votes

You can thank ghostcrawler for this mess. He did the same to WoW. And no, he's an asshole who doesn't listen to anyone, so it'll never be reverted.

Dracocrash12/12/2018, 12:37:19 AM3 votes

Main reason? You are seriously underestimating gold creep.

The Dreamwalker12/12/2018, 12:21:31 AM2 votes

I would give up all keystones just to get Deathfire Touch MissFortune back. I miss it so badly.

Summonah1236912/11/2018, 9:00:22 PM2 votes

Even in LORE most of the champions are described as a super op champion, I believe in Xin's lore he's described as some sort of 1v100ng machine, and Draven is described as never missing a skillshot.

DislocatedSquids12/12/2018, 8:45:03 AM2 votes

Remove the stupid keystones, remove the stupid items in the shop.

ModBianca Colt12/11/2018, 11:44:52 PM2 votes

Runes have made the game more "interesting", but at the same time created problems on multiple fronts. Don't really think that the benefits are overshadowing the cons, to be honest. Something has to go.

l MrD l12/11/2018, 11:55:19 PM2 votes

the keystones would be a lot better if they were purely utility based and not extra damage

Guardian is an amazing keystone and a real idea of how they should work ... affects gamelay and doesnt affect a champions kit or numbers ... thats how others hsould be .... why should aftershock deal damage instead of slowing? why does comet just be a simple extra poke damage tool when it could be a comet falling to stun people or create actual terrain?

conqueror is a bad example of a keystone ... turning anyone who takes it into tank killers .... the keystone was there to create different playstyles not over load a group of champions ... a champions kit should be atank killer such as vayne or fiora not a whole group because of one keystone ...

just extra damage on top of kits designed to do what they should be doing its overloaded

reaper404212/13/2018, 6:04:32 PM1 votes

I remember people doing sillier builds with the runes, like extra crit at level 1, or my personal favorite max lethality (I would get 93 lethality as udyr) and could dick around more. Now its the same runes over and over. The only "variety" is if you want more burst or sustained damage

Dollie Llama12/12/2018, 3:52:11 PM1 votes

Perhaps, if anything, keystones should be picked up as you level in the game, and then keystones should have clear counters as balance.

Hammermancer12/12/2018, 4:11:05 PM1 votes

Ill never forget someone saying "thunderlords annie is kinda rediculous" when the first round of keystone masteries came out

Now its so much worse

Rabbi Shekelberg12/12/2018, 4:22:24 PM1 votes

b-b-b-b-b--b-b-but m-m-m-m-uh personal gameplay and "choose your unique runes"!

except that champions still take the same cookie cutter runes every match

S V 12/12/2018, 8:55:09 PM1 votes

I want the old runes and masteries for the sake of more options and control to the players instead of having templates laid out to them. I would be able to choose between the 50+ Runes and their respective combinations while also having synergy with the 30 points into the masteries system. The new Runes feel blunt and without any innovative aspects. It tells me, as a player, that while the animations and color might be flashy, the skill and overview of how runes and masteries are integrated into the game is lacking if not empty. Riot has lost their touch with the community and should implement a polls system or a board solely for polls since they no longer can properly read their player base consistently and accurately. Of all the straightforward implementations Riot has implemented, I'm surprised they haven't given the community a Polls system or at least explain why the public opinion may be misguided/interpreting the situation incorrectly.

ez mental boom12/12/2018, 9:18:41 PM1 votes

Riot seems to have this odd aversion to "exclusive" keystones ever since preseason 8. There will be no freedom of choice, no matter how hard they try to make everything good on everyone. Players will always optimize the fun out of video games.

The 2016 masteries did just fine after numbers and Warlord's were sorted out. Every class had their own "exclusive" keystone and nobody cared. There were no Janna players sitting there thinking, "man, I wish bond of stone was just as viable as windspeaker's blessing on Janna for some stupid fucking reason"

hoganftw12/12/2018, 10:29:10 PM1 votes

The game is just goofy right now and it's like there's some real game-breaking combinations out there that suck the fun out of the game.

Ach3ck12/13/2018, 1:59:54 AM1 votes

if you have the wrong runes you lose you lane this should not be a thing. you should have a small disadvantage not a gg lane is over

MarkedOfKane12/13/2018, 6:56:59 AM1 votes

Bring back an old rune system where you just select the stats(which don't cost anything but you may pay for a page as usual).

I don't think old masteries are really needed though.