Riot what happened to immobile mages?

gozer45·3/5/2015, 8:22:17 AM·18 votes·4,054 views

I seriously wonder about the thought processes here. Immobile mages seem to get nothing but nerfs despite there immobility. When one is hard to play against because he can kill you really quickly you nerf him. this would make sense except for the fact that mobile mages do the same or more damage and generally see buffs not nerfs, not that they haven't seen nerfs. Immobile mages that i love like Viktor and Velkoz and Veigar just don't hold up to a well played Ahrie in the current structure of the game. when talking about balance choices when Velkoz came out i remember the sentiment being that immobile mages because they are immobile generally get higher raw power and usually some cc, but Ahrie now has a speed dash a ult with three dashes and a charm which is better cc then anything Velkoz has combined with true damage and heals which Velkoz dos not even approach having.

This being the state of things i why should i ever play anything but Ahrie or Leblanc or Fizz? Admittedly i don't enjoy them as much but they are legitimately just better in the current game structure. And I'm not saying that there are not good players on Velkoz or other immobile mages. There are and they do some times beat Ahries and Leblancs. Obviously player skill is vastly important, but all other things being equal if the mobile mage and the immobile mage have the same damage potential the mobile mage wins.

I am also not saying riot you stink why make game so bad rage because my pet champ doesn't do what i want him to. I think over all your usage of perfect imbalance is impressive. Giving players the tool box to find ways to make our own balance is great and the way you generally handle these issues is great, but in the end i am simply tired of playing against Ahrie most games because she is legitimately the best pick and has no real downsides to chose. The problem is that mid is getting stale and the options for playing there are almost none existent.

I guess the question is if mobile champs are supposed to have to pay a toll of power to get there mobility why is it that none of them do?

41 Comments

The Bearded Bard3/5/2015, 9:02:10 AM13 votes

Anivia Annie Fiddlesticks Cassiopeia Heimerdinger Morgana Malzahar Orianna Ryze Rumble Syndra TwistedFate Viktor Velkoz Ziggs Xerath Swain Karthus Karma Brand

All nonmobile mages, all of them fine champions. Not perfectly balanced, of course, but none of them are bad at all.

Honestly, I'd rather see some help for those that are castrated by the recent popularity of Morello's. Vladimir Aatrox Swain DrMundo Zac

Only Play Darius3/5/2015, 11:19:40 AM4 votes

Zed

Maximum Zilean3/5/2015, 9:08:40 AM4 votes

One thing nemesis mode taught me, there really are no bad champions in the game. Just some are more situational then others.

This includes the immobile mages, You should know they still pack ALOT of damage to them. Just not as faceroll as other mages with super mobility since your positioning is key.

67chrome3/5/2015, 9:21:15 AM2 votes

I guess the question is if mobile champs are supposed to have to pay a toll of power to get there mobility why is it that none of them do?

Pretty much every champion pays a price for the capabilities they have in their kit.

The big thing you have to keep in mind is it isn't just a damage vs. speed scale. Riot has to factor in:

Damage, single-target damage, area-effect damage, poke damage, burst damage, speed at which you can unload damage, kiting/animation canceling capabilities when dealing damage, resource costs for damage, how much damage you do early game, how much damage you do mid game, how much damage you do late game, how damage scales over the course of a game, how even (or uneven) damage scales in level 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6+, how easy (or difficult) damage is to counter-build, how easy (or difficult) the power curve of damage scaling is to exploit, how accurate/reliable damage-dealing mechanics are, etc. Sustain, defense, mobility, CC, and utilities also have a similar number of considerations - and there's more things you can throw in the mix like dueling capabilities, team-fight potential, ease of use, weakness to a counter-pick, usefulness in the pick/ban stage, viable alternate builds, potential lanning positions...

Balance also extends to player skill - balancing a million things requires certain assumptions to be made about players dealing with a given champion, so nothing is going to be perfectly balanced across all Elos.


Anyways - don't focus on a narrow metric like mobility vs. damage when looking at a wide range of champions. Try to find other areas of comparison, you may find that, say, the team-fight capabilities of a lot of slow champions is considerably better than that of a lot of mobile champions.

OhOkYea3/5/2015, 8:54:21 AM2 votes

Annie, swain, xerath, etc

Drunk Rummate3/6/2015, 3:15:41 PM1 votes

what happened to immobile mages?

they got LeBonked

bah dum, tiss

Jelubi3/6/2015, 3:22:06 PM1 votes

Fizz Gets a 20% damage amp on his ult, yet is now "unplayable" because he lost 20% damage amp from DFG". Typical League, Fizz was BUFFED not nerfed, maybe for the time being his damage may be a hundred or so less because of the initial damage of DFG active but in the end RIOT is already bringing back a 120 AP item with bonus damage passive while Fizz will still have a DFG passive on his ult.

The same way Leblanc was "not viable" for a few months after she lost her silence. It just takes some time for players to realize these champs aren't weak just because they were tweaked. In a few months people will realize Fizz is even stronger than he was before and he will become popular again, people just think he's weak because now you have to actually land your ultimate to overkill your target and missing the ultimate means you will only just barely kill them. The 120 AP is coming back, the bonus damage passive is coming back and the damage amp was carried on in his ultimate.

I'm glad Fizz has become unpopular because for a while I don't have to deal with such a broken kit but in the end it was a buff.

Karma Karma really isn't an immobile mage. If you have a strong enough movement speed buff with a low enough cooldown, its safe to consider that mobility. Though its not on par with Leblanc, it is still a form of mobility. Actually its a very healthy form of mobility. She can't jump through walls all day yet she isn't a statue either. But calling Karma immobile is almost like calling Zilean Immobile.

Takeuchi 173/6/2015, 4:47:00 PM1 votes

you forget the most mobile melee mage/assassin Kassadin is now null and void. apparently theres no winning with mobile mages or immobile ones. either or someone will complain and they will all be nuked eventually

The Bearded Bard3/5/2015, 9:52:16 AM1 votes

Awww thread died. Was having fun. Actually got me in the mood to play Swain again, but I still think I'll hold off until Morello's isn't a must buy on every ap champion.

Economicz3/5/2015, 3:12:35 PM1 votes

Heimer and Malz have obscene win rates for a reason, but keep complaining about how in your solo q games the 47% win rate champs are better than the 54% ones

AFK Push3/5/2015, 3:34:32 PM1 votes

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend&roleSort=Middle

The only mobile mid with a win percentage over 50 percent is ahri, all of the others are immobile. I think it is a balancing issue, where people prefer these mobility champions over the immobile ones even if they are less successful etc. Like why do people prefer to play Zed over Heim, even though they are more likely to win statistically? Because Zed is probably more fun than heim etc.

Boswick3/5/2015, 8:35:15 PM1 votes

Velkoz doesn't have true damage? Have you read his passive? Also an aoe knock up is better than a single target cc.