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I have an idea for a vayne W change...

Rysophage·5/15/2018, 12:20:34 AM·94 votes·18,627 views

How about you give her multiple types of bolts? like she can switch them either at base or out of combat. she's supposed to be this demon hunter but not every demon is a tank. riot's issues with silver bolts has been it was too good against tanks AND squishies. ok, give her separate "ammo" so she has to choose for the specific situation. you could also give other bolts too like just plain burst physical damage thats not %hp or some kind of slow effect every 3rd hit or something. I feel like there's alot of unexplored potential here.

Or maybe im just silver and need to shut up ;-;

85 Comments

HalcyonDweller5/15/2018, 12:22:53 AM36 votes

{quoted}

Or maybe im just silver and need to shut up ;-;

Naw dude don't even joke about that. This was a very thoughtful and creative idea, and one you should be proud of. I agree, lots of unexplored potential. It makes so much sense too because hunters choose their weapon and ammunition style based on the type of prey they intend to hunt.

Bob the Toastr5/15/2018, 2:22:53 AM7 votes

Good idea but it needs to have a decent cooldown (30+ seconds) so she has to plan ahead for the situation she's going to be in. That's one problem I have with 2 form champs (Jayce, Nidalee, Elise) is they can switch back and forth too easily. If they pick the wrong form they can switch back in like 3 seconds. Therefore I think it should have a long cooldown so if she picks the wrong ammo type, she is punished for it.

DeathBurst5/15/2018, 10:05:25 AM7 votes

As usual with this kind of threads...

Why?

The idea isn't bad (it's even rather good, as others have mentioned), but what's your goal? Why take the time and the people it takes to do that change? Never do change just for the sake of change, you need to have a precise objective in mind.

And THAT is what's important to communicate. The rest can be ironed out later down the road if everyone agree on the goal, but when you're just making a paper kit on a Board, the goal you want to achieve is what matters.

Automated Riven5/15/2018, 12:37:47 AM6 votes

Hey, I will get on board with with.

W. Cast w to choose from 4 different types of ammo. 10 second cooldown. 0 Mana cost.

After casting w cast Q,W,E, or R to 'lock in' which type of ammo you want to use

W-Q. 6-7-8-9-10 percent true damage (remove flat damage as that simply makes it better against squishy champions) W-W. every 3 attacks against the same target slows then by 20-25-30-35-40 percent for .5 seconds. W-E. Every third auto attack against the same target deals 25-50-75-100-125 bonus magic damage (can crit for double damage) (mainly used for killing Squishies) W-R. Every 3rd auto attack against the same target, reduce damage dealt to zero and gain that damage as a shield blocking only physical damage.

Ideas to at least facilitate discussion.

warpenguin5555/15/2018, 1:06:06 PM4 votes

This is actually a great idea. When Vayne finally gets that VGU she needs this should at least be tested.

Cosmic Lux5/15/2018, 3:09:21 AM4 votes

Like twisted fate :)

invisiblecat15/15/2018, 3:13:31 AM3 votes

This is actually a really cool idea

Although it needs some work, I feel like giving her more skill expression on having to decide whether to be stronger against squishy characters or tanky characters is a good idea

However, Vayne is commonly seen as a tank shredder adc, so it could be that her W just needs some nerfs on its base damage

NorthernRedStar5/15/2018, 7:24:33 AM3 votes

Or maybe im just silver and need to shut up ;-;

Creativity and ideas have nothing to do with rank. At ease.

I like the suggestion.

Elohaven5/15/2018, 11:45:29 AM3 votes

Vayne isn't meta right now, weak, or overbearing. She has no issues currently. Riot's issue with Silver Bolts rarely happens and Patch 8.1 was simply because they skipped over changing Vayne with every other ADC. Just because Silver Bolts kills squishies and tanks doesn't mean it's bad - that's its intended purpose. She's meant to rely on attack speed to proc it as much as possible.

She's viable. I can literally go up to Diamond with her if I tried right now.

It's a cute idea but this idea is forcing a rework on her kit which Vayne mains, at least I, don't see needed and a rework she doesn't need. It also complicates her teamfighting potential and cuts down her DPS. A rework to a kit should only be if needed due to gameplay issues/practicality or if the kit is too weak and Vayne doesn't need it. Even if it's pretty, the kit is fine and her current kit works better than this. This is more of a nerfed version of Vayne.

Her kit identity is also to make use of the most simplistic things - thus a simple kit but many ways to use it optimally.

His Bonnie5/15/2018, 11:19:37 PM2 votes

Real talk tho, people complain about Vayne a lot and I think they don't take the whole kit into consideration. She has single target damage and if she fucks up and hits someone else she loses stacks of silver bolts. She doesn't have any attack speed steroid and she doesn't have anything that gives her extra range. She has a hard lane when people actually know how to pressure and bring presence into a lane.

Onandaga5/15/2018, 12:50:32 AM2 votes

Really cool idea actually.

VoraciousX5/16/2018, 5:37:26 AM2 votes

Honestly this might be a little oppressive. She already has burst potential vs squishies because of her Q and her building crit on top of it. Her W isn't the reason she kills squishies easily so I don't see a reason why giving her W a choice to kill squishies is a good idea. Back when On-hit Vayne was her meta build maybe, but now, I don't see a reason for it.

Mannny5/16/2018, 11:27:42 AM1 votes

I like the idea but it may do the exact opposite of what you want. She may end up becoming a generalist champion who can deal with anything accordingly

Ifneth5/15/2018, 2:32:24 AM1 votes

I like this idea.

When Vayne presses and holds W, she channels while cycling through several bolt options and selects one by releasing the key. Her next basic attack will have one of the following on-hit effects.

  1. Barbed. The enemy suffers Grievous Wounds for 5 seconds.

  2. Weighted. The target is slowed by 30% for 3 seconds.

  3. Silvered. Silver Bolts will require only two hits to proc for the next 4 seconds.

10 second cooldown. 80 mana cost.

Or we just put Silver Bolts into her passive and give her an actual ability on her W. How about these?

Night’s Haste - Vayne throws her crossbow over her shoulder and sprints, quickly gaining 20% bonus movement speed after a brief channel. While the channel does not interrupt Vayne’s movement, it disarms her, and she remains disarmed while sprinting. Re-casting Night’s Haste orders Vayne stop sprinting and draw her crossbow after another similar channel.

Azadethe5/15/2018, 6:47:41 PM1 votes

Rysophage: literally about 90% of Vayne's damage is in her Q, not her W. W doesn't activate enough unless you are an idled player who doesn't retreat or CC.

Her Q readily hits for 1600-1700, and on late game has as low as a 2 second cooldown. Once she has item 3036 , that is why she shreds, not her W.

W is actually her weakest ability.

Even her E does double damage if it wall knocks.

Silver Bolts activates every 3 attacks. It's not that much damage...

Something to realize as well: There really isn't much "Tank" anymore vs AD carries. Armor shred is just too accessible on all roles. Even if an AD carry doesn't get item 3071 , their allies DO. which means a item 3036 just takes away almost all armor.

In a game where you naturally might have 70 Armor, but built 300 Armor, You're likely lowered to 56 or so Armor after all armor reductions/ignored are applied.

HP is more tanky than Armor. That's where the game is now.

KFCeytron5/15/2018, 9:19:20 PM1 votes

This is a neat idea that Riot will never implement because it would change Vayne from having clearly-defined strengths and weaknesses to Lee "no weaknesses" Sin with an overloaded kit. Such a jack-of-all-trades kit would have to be a master of none, which is a nice way of saying she'd be nerfed into the ground to keep anyone from playing her outside Co-op vs AI.

Can you provide a source for Riot saying that Vayne's W is too good against everyone, or that it's too good against tanks, or that it's too good against squishies, or that it has any issues at all?

LordGeovanni5/15/2018, 9:26:10 PM1 votes

Physical damage would have to be broken like her R to be worth taking over % because the % is so high.

Enrovy5/16/2018, 12:19:40 AM1 votes

of maybe true damage above certain hp then it will become phys damage

ChaddyFantome5/16/2018, 12:59:29 AM1 votes

As neat as this sounds, i feel this creeps on Jinx's design space too much.

Aliied champion15/16/2018, 1:32:32 AM1 votes

Vayne with 250 attkspeed plus presicion and 3 hit you with slow then switch to physical dmg ....that scary...to me

Total Eclipse5/16/2018, 5:29:08 AM1 votes

lowkey genius over here

Blåbæret5/16/2018, 9:24:38 AM1 votes

Not a bad idea tbh.