Please, make this changes to Yorick. He feels awfull in medium/high elo. Long post.

Sauronkaiser·11/20/2019, 2:01:53 AM·22 votes·9,234 views

Yorick has a problem. Because of how he is designed, he has become an extremely usefull champion for low elo / approaching medium elo games. A lot of people states that he is the stronger top in this elo, even more than Darius , and i would even say he is the stronger champion of the game here.

But heres the problem: once you reach plat+ games, he turns into an extremely frustating champion to play with because of the interactions of his pets with players who know what they do. And this is TRULLY a waste, because at this point is when you begin to really seize his potential as afk-splitpusher and understand his hidden potential as backdoor or objetive taking. All of this comes to nothing when your laning phase is basically the weakest of the whole game. Not because ghouls damage was heavily nerfed time ago, you can always search new ways to play the champion and be competent with him. The problem is not his lack of damage, is the fact he is just not allowed to properly trade like other champions.

Yorick´s ghouls have 2 problems:

FIRST PROBLEM: they are programmed in a way that ANY single-objetive ability, or just an auto, kills one of them instantly. This mechanic is necesary so you can clean them easily, but it shouldnt be allowed to clean them just in Yorick´s face before he can even get near to the objetive. This interaction is extremely poorly designed as in an elo where players are good enough, they will just abuse it to destroy your whole combo and make your abilities deal no damage. It doesnt stop there: some abilities that deal AoE also kill instantly the first ghoul they hit. For example, Yasuo ´s Q always kill the first ghoul they hit, even if the ability inself deals AoE damage to all entities behind it. He can auto-q-e-e and kill your 4 ghouls in around a second, sometimes not letting them hit a single auto after leap. This happen with a lot of champions.

The most funny example is Irelia who can literally kill all your ghouls instantly and charge her passive in the act. This is bullshit and cant be called by other name. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBY3N4CQgRc

Think about it: raising ghouls takes time and demands you to get tombs with Q, getting exposed to being attacked all the time. In level 3 values, sending them to attack demands hitting E, a skillshot that costs 50 mana, has 12 seconds CD and by itself deals like 70 magic damage. Then ghouls leap, dealing around 15 damage each one in the act, so 60. Then they get killed and, if you are lucky, maybe 2 of them are allowed to hit one auto each one before dying. So basically all that combo that took you time to prepare getting tombs exposed, using an E that is a pain in the ass to hit because of its hitbox and wastes mana is dealing around 160 damage in total.

160 damage for ALL that, and then you are again naked until you get tombs. How many champions, who have more mobility, no resource waste, not need time to prepare the engage or are ranged, deal much more than that much easier? It really feels like garbage.

You cant really engage yourself and use wall in this elo, as no one commits the mistake to waste his aa reset / dash / disengage to prevent your assault, and even so, a lot of champions can easily outdamage you in this situation.

Ask Malphite Shen Renekton or Mordekaiser to give some examples. They legit outrade you with no problems even with 4 ghouls. The only way to win is to harrass them enough so they are too weak to respond when you finally decide to engage yourself, but this is impossible because you are dealing 160 damage every 15 seconds, while they have sustain, can punish you for free, etc...

You can sometimes play around hitting E, getting near, hitting a Q with garsp and then going out the trade and letting the enemy with the ghouls, but even this is risky for various reasons and wastes too much mana if you decide to use wall for the damage youll end up dealing.

SECOND PROBLEM: the second problem is how some champion abilities affect ghouls the same way as normal minions, making them useless.

Volibear with his roar or Aatrox with his ult FEAR the ghouls for 3 seconds, instantly winning the trade if used well. Kled kills the 4 ghouls instantly with his E. Chogath heals with his passive by literally using auto to a ghoul. Mordekaiser isolates you from all your pets. Urgot activates W and his automatic 4 autos in 1 second oneshot your 4 ghouls (and also your wall, btw) Jinx can do this garbage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrrJxtWGde0

And this are just some of the much examples i could give.

Not to mention that, as they attack using autos (and they mean 50% of all your damage in mid-late game), champions who counter autos instantly counter yorick, such as Jax, Shen or Malphite .

I could understand this kind of interactions if Yorick was a very strong champ in the meta with no real counters, but is not the case. A lot already shits on you without abusing this methods.

Theres also another problem: while Yorick is a juggernaut and can go with tenacity building item 3111 item 3053 or item 2138 , the ghouls are always affected by a 100% of CCs. This means all AoE cc already can be used to counter you even if you built the champion to not be affected by it.

I know what you are thinking: various champions have pets, and none of them have special theatment in this aspect. Malzahar Zyra or Elise also have pets, and they get killed very easily, but think carefully. None of them is as reliant of his pets and based on minion-summon as Yorick is. The pets of the champs listed adove are a little part of their damage or are meant to proc items like item 3151. You may have a point on Heimerdinger , but his towers wont get killed instantly and they are much easier to summon than ghouls. Also in a lot of situations his direct damage is more important than his turrets.

What im trying to say is that Yoricks ghouls shouldnt be so vulnerable to this kind of interactions as they are too important in his kit and counting the hard they are to summon in early game and the fact you cant quickly recast them if they die. He is a necromancer after all.

So after all this pile of text, how do we fix Yorick in a way he wont become stronger in low elo where he is already good? Ive been thinking for a while, and the solution is so simple that is almost funny.

Only 2 changes are needed:

1- Enemies marked with E cant oneshot the ghouls with autos/any ability while the mark lasts on them. 2- Give ghouls 50% tenacity by default.

This changes wont affect low elo at all, since all of this problems i listed are only abused in plat+. No one in silver does a perfect combo to kill the ghouls in a second just after they leap, or uses Aatrox ult planning to fear the ghouls. If this happens in this elo, most of times is a pure accident. So with this it wont be so easily to get rid of the ghouls. I see on it a fair punishment for letting yourself being hitted with Yorick´s E after letting him get tombs. If the ghouls are already in the map you should care to not be hitted by E, as it would mean 4 full seconds of not being able to clean them. However, the most common thing to happen is Yorick waiting to hit his E to then raise ghouls. They have to spawn and leap, wich is already like 1,5 seconds of time, so when they are in front of the objetive the mark will last for 2,5 seconds. I think is a fair time to not be able to kill them instantly, but just decide to escape or face Yorick directly instead of abusing stupid interactions. This also wont affect at all his afk-pushing tactic with its pros and cons.

36 Comments

Jaspers11/20/2019, 8:45:57 AM8 votes

Upvoted. I love new Yorick and he quickly became my main top lane champ to play but introduction of champs like Irelia and changes to Maiden's damage, scaling and choice in how she works (plus other more Riot changes, old Aatrox was so fing fun, new is just a bore fest) put me off playing top lane entirely.

His ghouls feel so weak in a lot of matchups and he is dependent on playing around them and getting them up. While he can deal good damage without them it's similar to a Heimer situation where their power is dependent on a outside source and playing around them properly. Yorick's E is not the easiest skill shot to land (I'd say one of the hardest in the game) and a lot of his power is tied to it to get his ghouls to actually attack but it provides him great opportunity to go in, yet for his ghouls to then vanish (or be used against him in the case of say Irelia or Yas) just feels painful.

I'd welcome any change that helps him in this regard.

EDIT: I'll add removal of Zz'Rot is a big mistake from Riot, I always built it on Yorick, it's such a good item. Their excuse it was it removes player interaction like many things but Yorick's entire goal is to not be involved and push lanes, take towers. How long until they remove him too?

Dabrick0111/20/2019, 2:56:36 PM6 votes

Dude, all I want is better Maiden AI.

I'm no high elo player, but literally every time I feel like I can't do anything because my maiden just dies instantly cuz she runs right into the aatrox.

Z3SIeeper11/21/2019, 2:23:04 AM5 votes

Hard agree. Fuck the Irelia interaction, absolute bullshit.

Hyxaru11/20/2019, 10:34:12 PM5 votes

Only true auto attacks should count for the oneshot mechanic. But that still begs the question if Irelia’s Q doesn’t have enough damage anyways to oneshot a ghoul.

Also not the same issue but on the subject of small mechanics, dear god please make the scryer bloom debuff last 3 seconds on ghouls/maiden or any pet in the game for that matter instead of the current 12 seconds. Especially as Yorick walking through the jungle with summons behind me, being revealed for 12 seconds is eternally while I can’t remove my summons either.

AronCartman11/20/2019, 5:04:20 AM4 votes

I support this fully, but yorick isnt a big tiddy thic champ, so that change might come in s11. Still I used to love playing pre rework and post rework before being neutered ;(

Moody P11/20/2019, 9:41:59 AM3 votes

"Please remove my champions counters."

Hmm...

MimosaSamosa11/20/2019, 4:02:52 AM2 votes

this is a great idea, but what dou you mean by "cant be one shot" do you mean it will take 2 abilities to do that?

WoonStruck11/20/2019, 5:43:56 AM2 votes

Make him not absolutely dumpster every ranged top laner and we can start considering yorick buffs.

Shovel Bot11/20/2019, 9:42:53 AM2 votes

I can't take OP seriously at all and is likely they don't even main Yorick if I was just judging the post on its own.

Complaining about a Chogath matchup? "LeT Me AlwAyS GeT AdVaNtAgE iF I hIt E BeCaUsE I CaN'T PlAy MaTcHuPs".

Noraver11/20/2019, 12:51:16 PM1 votes

Personally I would love that his Passive includes raising recently-dead Allies as mini-ghouls or something.

Having an ally die next to him and res as a little ghoul with all their abilities replaced by "jump", would at the very least (perhaps) allow him to Support in some capacity. Or, even having his passive work for when Allies kill minions as well.

I love Yorick's kit, theme, and character as a whole, but he just feels like he's missing something. I can't put my finger on it, and I know the above two ideas aren't the best, but they would certainly open him up to new ways of play.

dontspinbutwin11/20/2019, 6:52:14 PM1 votes

As much as I feel you, that would be massively oppressive to fight.

For example, Darius' main weakness would be he gets kited to oblivion. Nearly all champions can kite him. As such, should we make it so Darius has a dash or a movement speed steroid? Hell no, he has his weaknesses, and certain champions can abuse it. Some champions can out maneuver him to render him useless (teemo, vayne), some can outburst him (riven, fiora), and some can cripple his movement to deny him the in-combat sustain he needs (lulu, ashe, etc).

Yorick's ghouls getting killed in 1 hit feels immensely frustrating. However, they also do tons of damage. The mindset enemy players face when fighting yorick is "I have to kill these ghouls quick, while having to deal with this yorick", and being hit by his E is far more mental stress they have to deal with.

Does this mean yorick is in a good spot? Hell no, he needs some fine tuning, be it sustain or tankiness. However, certain champions should remain counterpicks to yorick. Aatrox should be able to fear minions, irelia should be able to stack her passive on the ghouls, cho should heal by ghouls, etc. Its a part of their kit. Not simply because Yorick needs to be easily countered, but rather its a part of their kits.

Summoner SpeII11/20/2019, 5:28:34 AM1 votes

i mean irelia hit her e in that trade there, irelia has such bad base stats that u almost won the 1v1 even if she hit her e

Kampsycho11/20/2019, 5:28:27 AM1 votes

Yas

Tips Fiora11/22/2019, 5:18:30 PM1 votes

I couldnt agree more.