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@Riot Fearless, What was Sona made for?

Sonaring·9/14/2014, 7:51:31 PM·43 votes·27,408 views

I am directly asking Riot Fearless what the true intentions of reworking Sona? Was she just not viable in any meta or was she just not “fun”? Is she just an easy champion for new players to learn the game? I want these questions answered.

The current state of Sona just isn’t viable anywhere in high tier anymore. She feels like half a champion and impacts less of a game. Her mechanics are degraded and can’t even match with any of the current support champions. I sometimes feel bad for my adc that has to lane with me or even for my entire team. It just feels like a complete place holder.

Besides the time of Sona X Ezreal bot lane Season 3, Sona has been shunned and nerfed in many cases. Her Q range, her Base stats, Q damage, Powercord damage, Crescendo damage, AP ratios, and we can go on and on, but it was quite tolerable and understanding. She was sometimes a lot stronger than the opponent adc if played smart, I don't deny it.

I have played about 500 games of the “new-sona” and it is about time I go to my pharmacy school so I won’t be playing anymore. But during the 500 games, I was quite depressed and felt pointless as Sona. I have tested so many different runes and masteries and most of them have failed to match the current supports. And quite frankly a lot of players (including me) are just not satisfied compared to the old Sona.

Sona used to be a complete glass-cannon poke and was rewarding for risking her life. The poke on her Q was satisfactory and was able to control lane with decent pokes. If she was out of position Thresh, Leona or even Braum would punish her. But the reworked Sona does not provide any poke damage. I have tried several different builds (runes/masteries/items) on Sona to actually deal damage in lane. But it was an utter failure. She deals less damage and is even more squisher because of her stat nerf. She isn’t rewarding for what she is made for.

How often do people utilize Sona’s Q passive? Hardly ever. It seems the extra ON-HIT MAGIC DAMAGE: 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 (+ 25% AP) (+10 / 20 / 40) isn’t utilized much at all. Do high tier adc utlize them? No. Mostly because they are busy csing. It needs 100% syncro for the adc to be poking with Sona’s passive which is near impossible. The on-hit magic damage doesn’t even do enough damage anyways. It is so minimal that people rarely recognize it.

Another issue I want to address is what was the point of giving a passive on her ult? “Passive: Each rank of Crescendo grants Sona increased power in her auras. Song of Celerity also gains increased power in Sona's self buff.+10/20/40 Magic Damage for Hymn of Valor+10/20/40 shield power for Aria of Perseverance +2/4/6% Movement Speed for Song of Celerity”

I don’t understand why a support would need a passive on her ult. A sustained support in lane would take about 7~9min to reach level 6 and even much longer for level 11. It takes way too long for her to utilize the passives. It makes no sense for a support to have increased passives for QWE on her ult. And also the buffs are so minimal it is near impossible to see the difference by the time she does reach level 6. A buff like this would suit a solo laner. Look at syndra’s passive for example. It's not exactly the same but it comes close to it.

Transcendent Spells gain extra effects at max rank. Dark Sphere: Deals 15% bonus damage to champions. Force of Will: Increases the slowing duration by 33%. Scatter the Weak: Spell width increased by 50%. Unleashed Power: Range increased by 75.

These buffs are clearly for solo laners that can level up fast and utilize it.

Basically all I feel about this rework is a complete nerf, she hasn’t been played in ANY professional game. She isn't even considered to be played in competitive scene. I want to do more number crunching and talk more about missing mechanics but I just want to get this out there first. (Crescendo Ult width nerfed, E does not buff minions, Auto-attack Q Powercord sometimes does not proc damage with the Q passive and so many more)

I have said it in previous post that Sona does not need a rework because she doesn't get played anyways with such low numbers on her stats. But now I won't be playing Sona anymore because I am a complete nuisance to the team if I play Solo Q.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4636828

I just miss the days of the old Sona that used to give the team a small-baron buff. The Sona that actually influenced the team for what she was made for. Losing all that just made her useless. I think her play rate has gone more down after the rework than before.(not like she was viable than other supports anyways. Thresh, Leona, Braum, Nami)

I just want to accomplish one thing out of this post if anything. I want Fearless to answer my questions.

146 Comments

Origami Kaiju9/15/2014, 1:14:03 AM13 votes

I don't want to come across as entitled or naggy to the Riot Staff because I acknowledge all the hard work they put into Sona and I appreciate that. With that said, I'm not entirely happy with the rework, and there are still a lot of problems with her that I think need to be addressed.

Another issue I want to address is what was the point of giving a passive on her ult?

I believe that this was implemented to make Sona's early game distinctly weak. I think they wanted to open Sona up for more counterplay, which they have successfully done. But I think there has always been an easy way to deal with sona - land any amount of hard cc on her and she can be instantly deleted.

I don't understand how a late game scaling support is an ideal mechanic for the role. As a support, I want to be useful to my team with utility, poke, or sustain at all times. I feel like my team is handicapped until I can put 3 points into crescendo and get max CDR.

If you played a lot of Sona before the rework,and after, then you can definitely feel a big difference in power level in regard to her early game. To be honest, playing Sona does not feel good during the laning phase. One reason for this is that Q's damage is not significant enough to justify putting yourself in a vulnerable position. Considering that heal is weaker (unless you've maxed it first, in which case poke is redundant anyways), has a longer CD, and higher mana cost - you cannot afford to make any mistakes . The reward just isn't high enough to compensate for how risky it is.

The worst experience is trying to play Sona when your team is behind. If you are down in levels, you feel absolutely useless to your team. Your poke is nonexistant, your heal is negligible, and your speed boost is just a waste of mana. All you can do is hope to land a god-like ult on high priority targets and give your team a chance to burst them down.

I'm fine with giving Sona counterplay. Her longer cooldowns and higher mana costs, and the removal of her invisible stats effectively curb a lot of Sona's power throughout the game. After all those nerfs, I don't see how she still needed significant reductions to her other numbers as well.

With that said, I have still managed to have success with Sona in certain situations and she's still my favorite champion in the League, but I'm sad to say I find myself playing Nami, Morgana, and Thresh a lot more now.

ShadowGlaive2139/15/2014, 12:58:44 PM11 votes

iirc Riot claimed she was reworked because she's not "satisfying to play." But what is satisfying to a player depends on their individual values and what they actually know about the champ really =X I think the fact that her pick/win rate appears to have remained pretty much unchanged, if not lower than before, indicates that the rework has not really changed Sona's state in relation to the overall player base. I've been against the rework ever since I heard of it. She was my go-to support before the rework but after the rework came I played her for about 22 games and couldn't stand new Sona anymore and moved to Nami >.< I admire your devotion to Sona and hope you get your response from Fearless, and good luck in pharmacy school =X

sp4419/15/2014, 4:24:49 AM9 votes

Riot in general seem to have developed a grudge against any and all passive stat buffs. Basically, if you can't see it on the screen, they're going to find a way to make it so.

DreamingOf Peace9/22/2014, 3:40:58 AM8 votes

We made tons of threads on the PBE and said all this months ago. They didn't listen then, they won't now. People who are wrong usually believe they are right and never want to own up to their mistakes even when those mistakes are clearly laid out in front of them. That's why as a company they should both ask for AND LISTEN TO feedback.

Arnai9/22/2014, 12:23:46 PM8 votes

Sona used to be a complete glass-cannon poke and was rewarding for risking her life. The poke on her Q was satisfactory and was able to control lane with decent pokes. If she was out of position Thresh, Leona or even Braum would punish her. But the reworked Sona does not provide any poke damage. I have tried several different builds (runes/masteries/items) on Sona to actually deal damage in lane. But it was an utter failure. She deals less damage and is even more squisher because of her stat nerf. She isn’t rewarding for what she is made for.

I don’t understand why a support would need a passive on her ult. A sustained support in lane would take about 7~9min to reach level 6 and even much longer for level 11. It takes way too long for her to utilize the passives. It makes no sense for a support to have increased passives for QWE on her ult. And also the buffs are so minimal it is near impossible to see the difference by the time she does reach level 6. A buff like this would suit a solo laner. Look at syndra’s passive for example. It's not exactly the same but it comes close to it.

I just miss the days of the old Sona that used to give the team a small-baron buff. The Sona that actually influenced the team for what she was made for.

What this guy is saying.

Linna Excel9/14/2014, 7:58:26 PM6 votes

I think she was made for LCS viewership. TBH, I think that's where the new redesign trends are going: everything has to be flashy so people watching the LCS can see everything.

The Yetii Rider9/14/2014, 10:18:58 PM4 votes

Sona was reworked in large part because A) Her sustain in lane was annoying to deal with early and B) her power in the mid and late game was largely invisible other than her ultimate.

Riot screwed up her Q. Fearless may have been in charge of communicating the rework to us but that doesn't mean that he was the deciding factor on every single change made to her, they probably have at least two or three designers working on each rework, and the lead designer (Meddler) most likely has to sign off on final changes before they go live. Her Q is undoubtedly worse, but the problem with a champion like Sona is that her power has to be balanced around the absolute best case scenario, which is all five champions benefitting from her aura at the same time. The problem with that is that it gives Sona a uniquely horrible disadvantage when one of her allies disconnects from a game, a large portion of her potential power goes out the window, while her general power is already weakened to compensate for her enormous potential power.

That said, the real issue isn't with her rework, it's with the players. Players focus so hard on the laning phase that they fail to appreciate the power that Sona actually has. Sona is a late-game support, a champion who is designed to have a terrible early game but an amazing team fight power. This seems counter productive, after all supports were originally so popular BECAUSE of their strong early game, and they were given no gold because their scalings were terrible and therefore they needed no late game.

So, how do players react when Riot emphasizes this aspect of her? They decry that she has worse poking power (not relevant, she's a heal/utility support, not a bully), that her shield duration is too short (a team shield shouldn't be up for more than a second anyway, but at least this rework gave Riot an excuse to nerf Thresh's team shield), that her auras require her to be too close to the team (a champion with no skill shots and auto targeting has difficulty positioning? Damn, I wish I could just close my eyes and slam my face against the keyboard like I used to!) and etc.

Here's the thing: Your adcs are going to be jerks to you. That's just a shift in our meta. Everyone is so thirsty these days because Riot has made snowballing harder. ADCs feel like they don't have enough power in the mid game just by farming up a storm anymore, so they have to "win" lane instead of just "not lose" lane now. IGNORE THEM. As a support, your job is to help THE TEAM. Marksmen will always find a reason to whine at you, just take the abuse or mute until level 10 when the team fights start, and then coordinate with your top laner and jungler to use your Ardent Censer buff and your team shield to CRUSH your enemies.

Don't worry about lane phase. Stay back, level W first and keep your wards up and just focus on surviving. Don't poke, don't go all-in, don't try and get your marksman kills because the risk is way too high for the reward. Instead, make it clear to your carry that you are going to play passive and if you're smart and you ward properly you won't feed. Then you get into mid game and you just outscale the enemy support too hard.