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Regarding the Talon Update

Z46·11/2/2016, 7:40:13 AM·2 votes·924 views

Would you please let his passive bleed large monsters? It's clear that he's going to have an impact on the enemy jungler with his new E just as much as (if not even more than) other lanes, being able to roam through the jungle as well as Rek'Sai. However, not being able to bleed large monsters keeps him from being able to jungle safely himself, locking him to mid lane lest he fear being invaded when he really shouldn't have to.

Compare this to Fizz, another mobile, walljump-capable melee assassin who's made a name for himself a few times now as a pretty horrifying jungler (among other things I won't mention), and comes out of the jungle much healthier thanks to the passive damage on Seastone Trident. Master Yi, who's seen almost entirely in the jungle, also has built-in sustain. Kindred, an equally squishy jungler (regardless of being ranged), comes out healthier as well thanks to Wolf's Frenzy slowing monster attack speed.

In no way would it possibly come up negative for Talon to be able to bleed large monsters. He's a squishy melee champion with no utility, hard CC or innate survivability whatsoever. All he has is a non-damaging walljump and invisibility to survive a poor encounter, and it (rightfully) lowers his damage output to be expending the latter.

Proccing his passive on large monsters also has no effect on his ability in mid lane or damage against champions, meaning no nerfs would be necessary to balance it out. It only serves to put his early jungle clear on par with other squishy junglers, and add the potential to truly free up mid lane for other options like Orianna, Syndra or even Cho'Gath (you know what I mean) with the trade-off of a utility-free carry jungler instead of one with CC or survivability. With this single, simple change, Talon players could play in two roles more reliably, and not have to worry that their favorite champion is infinitely less effective in a secondary role that he should clearly be able to fill, because Jungle Talon can't stay under turret in a bad matchup.

Worse, being able to bleed epic monsters really adds insult to injury. Just saying.

7 Comments

Sightless6611/2/2016, 10:33:29 PM4 votes

The risk of doing this is that if he had an increased clear time, then it is quite likely that he would end up stronger in the jungle than he would in midlane due to his general laning weakness, high jungle mobility, and the strength of his ganking. If his jungle ends up viable and the midlane ends up not viable (which is likely, given how Riot will be forced to respond with nerfs if he is too strong), then that will alienate every current Talon player who wants to play him mid. They don't want to switch roles to play their champion.

Basically, you can't assume that he'll be equally viable in two roles, particularly when one of those roles is the jungle (which historically tends to be a champion's only viable role whenever they're good at it). If he's strong in one and weaker than the other, than nerfs will very likely result in only one role being viable. We don't want jungle being his only viable role. We want midlane to remain a viable option. Overcomplicating things by trying to open up other roles that probably fit his kit better than midlane does will not make that easier.

"But wait", I hear you say. "We could implement it and then either revert it or nerf jungle Talon if jungling becomes the only option". Well, in addition to that adding a lot more balance work, the problem then is that you've let a lot of people get attached to jungle Talon, and they'll be just as pissed if you take it away from them as the current Talon players would be about losing access to midlane Talon.

Personally, I'm not against the idea. I don't really care if Talon gets forced into jungling. I think it would be pretty hilarious, and it might make me pick him up. I just see why Riot isn't willing to jump on something that would very, very likely end up fucking over some group of players. Very risky. It's something they should wait to implement until they see how his midlane and jungle actually are on live.

WarlockLaw11/2/2016, 7:51:16 AM1 votes

I believe they have said, not sure on source, that they didn't want him to be a jungler because of how strong his ganks can be. As such they've decided not the let his passive work on large monsters.

Dracocrash11/2/2016, 7:55:12 AM1 votes

fizz jungle is borderline viable, let alone scary?