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People complaining about Maw have no understanding of cost efficiency

AHeroNamedHawke·2/24/2016, 3:38:03 AM·3 votes·619 views

Let's start with the age old item 3155 vs item 3191

item 3155 500g combine cost, 1300g total. 102% efficient, except during the 5 second active during which it is 135% efficient at level 6, or 141% at level 9, with a 90 second cooldown

item 3191 165g combine cost, 1200g total. 102% efficient after 12 CS, stacking up to 138% efficiency if farmed for a total of 2.5 minutes. No cooldown.

It should be fairly obvious which one is more generally effective. But now you're going to say "But Charles, Zed rushed it and killed me at 6???" That's because Zed is the 3rd best mid laner in the game, not because he bought an orange sword. Is item 3165 broken because Lux rushes it all the time? Hexdrinker is actually pretty shit on it's own, but Maw is an amazing item.

Now for item 3156 and item 3157. Maw is actually better than Hourglass if you consider flat stats and passive efficiency (12% if you're curious, increased to ~52% during the active), but the items have two major differences. The first being that Hourglass's active isn't completely worthless against physical or magic damage, and stops everything.

The second difference is that Hourglass can win games on its own. Maw's shield doesn't suddenly stop Zed getting knocked back during an assassination attempt, or mitigate an entire 3500 damage burst combo, it gives a bunch of great stats and is generally useful. In exchange Hourglass is far easier to fuck up, because of how insanely powerful the active can be. And if you try to give me "WELL THEY JUST DOG PILE U DURING THE ACTIVE AND U DIE" then I'd really like to know how Maw is stopping 5 people from dog piling Zed or Talon instead.

One last thing for all the people on this board allergic to rushing item 3027 despite it being a meta item, here's how great that armor you want early game really is:

225 HP from Catalyst for 1200g, so let's say you somehow spend 1200g on pure armor, giving you 60 more

Ahri has 34 base armor and 830 base HP at level 6. Effective HP is calculated with HP x 1 + (Armor/100)

From base armor your effective HP has increased from 1112 to 1610

With only the HP from Catalyst, a little under half the item's value, your effective HP at 34 armor would be 1413. Not only that, but the health affects both physical and magic damage rather than just one

6 Comments

Abyssphere2/24/2016, 4:00:21 AM3 votes

It doesn't really matter how efficient Hexdrinker and Seeker's are in general because what matters in an all-in is how good they are when at their strongest. Even if Seeker's is the more gold efficient item in general, it's more gold efficient simply in terms of passive stats and at the end of the day that just means a bit more poke is needed before you blow up the mage. For most AD assassins that's not a big deal - Zed in particular because his poke is completely free and very strong. All Seeker's having great stats does is put a slight delay on you being assassinated by him.

Hexdrinker doesn't do as much against poke but in comparison to Seeker's it's so much stronger in 100-0 situations and that's because it can waste significant cooldowns. Syndra tries to 100-0 Zed - she ults him and Hexdrinker pops, saving his life. He may get the kill as a result of surviving that encounter. Zed tries to poke Syndra - he notices it's doing a bit less than it was earlier. He pokes her one more time than usual before going in on her and kills her when he ults.

Seeker's having more stats is meaningless. It's an unimpactful item because aside from having decent stats it doesn't do anything and when most AD mid laners don't have mana concerns (and come with strong poke/trading because why not) it's not that useful to have an item that just makes you a bit more resistant to damage. You need actual burst survivability or something that reduces your susceptibility to poke significantly. Hexdrinker gives you the ability to survive every 1v1 all-in against an enemy mage, voiding them of one of the main ways to react to someone going in on you (i.e. trying to kill them first). That means so much more, particularly when you're playing against a class that simply can't afford to waste their spells on poking you down to the extent you can.

Then you get into the fact that rushing Hexdrinker doesn't have any real sacrifice attached to it because delaying Dirk for a few minutes isn't really a big deal at all whereas Seeker's delays a Forbidden Idol/Chalice etc etc.

Akali is SO HOT2/24/2016, 3:46:35 AM1 votes

Unfortunately, because Hexdrinker and Maw are not mage items, they're overpowered and need to be gutted. Seeker's and Zhonyas on the other hand are mage items so they need MASSIVE buffs because they are mage items.

xl Kirito lx2/24/2016, 4:08:43 AM1 votes

A few points to consider, and this is without me checking your math, or willing to do any of my own.

  • You make the assumption that AD = AP, in terms of efficiency. AD benefits AA's, AP is sole spells. In turn, I really don't want to argue this point, since I'd have to check percentages on major champions.

  • Hexdrinker offers more defensive combat stats. 35 MR, and 110-280 health, compared to 30 armor. That's a lesser ruby crystal, and lesser negatron cloak, compared to two cloth armors.

Maw isn't stopping people from dropping everything on a Zed or Talon, it's stopping mages from bursting 100-0. Especially combined with Sterak's Gage, Zed / Talon can 1v1 any mage. Zhonyas is useful situationally, in much the same way Guardian Angel is useful situationally. There are times where the item is amazing, and wins the game. There are times where it's absolutely useless. It's about the difference between the two. Maw is incredibly consistent. Zhonyas is not.