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Diamond 2 player insight: Marksmen dominated meta = broken game. (AD Assassin/Tank imbalance)

Indominus Blade·12/27/2015, 8:17:35 AM·18 votes·2,613 views

The strongest role in the current patch/meta is "Marksman". This role is blatantly overpowered, with the update to their itemization and free utility, stats (crit/attackspeed/cdr): .

When Marskman become so dominant that they can hardcarry every game, then by default, champions who can reliably ENGAGE and BURST them down become relevant again: . (note that while still performing very good, are not as effective as zed, talon, rengar, because their engage is not as effective).

When Marskmen are dominating and AD Assassins are being played to shut them down, by default TANKS become THE BEST ROLE. That is why these champions have high winrate and perform the best globally in ranked games: because they can kill all without dying. The removal of (old) last whisper was a big mistake.

This is the most toxic meta you have ever created.

Nerf Marskman, do not release AD assassin item and nerf percession/thunderlord so Assassins become less effective, NERF TANKS and bring back mana potions for mages and the game might be enjoyable again.

From Assassin main.

37 Comments

Dreadlocks12/27/2015, 8:20:55 AM12 votes

And I'm over here like...i just want a green ward.

ImNotOriginal712/27/2015, 12:28:28 PM5 votes

Nope,as another diamond player(though not diamond 2),I'd say the biggest problem in the game is what's generally the biggest problem in the game:

Assassins due to being retarded down to their very core,and early game junglers for being the most oppressive champions by far.

Adcs I can live with,more than just assassins are capable of killing them.

BluePolarizer12/27/2015, 8:39:19 AM4 votes

Basically the meta right now is this:

From minion spawn to 15 minutes, bruisers and tanks are played to shut down the enemy team (especially the enemy marksman) as much as possible since they can no longer carry games by themselves. Marksmen are relatively weak, but only relative to their mid and late game.

From 15 minutes to 30 minutes, assassins and some mages (that have not fed the enemy assassin) run things since they can shut down the enemy marksman even when they are farmed. Marksmen are already the most important piece of your teamfight composition.

30+ minutes, if the marksmen on both teams have farm, they are THE most powerful champions in the game by far at this point.

At no point in the game is the marksman unimportant.

AquariusGine12/27/2015, 2:30:51 PM3 votes

Thank you thank you thank for this OP, I completely agree with everything you said [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

I am not enjoying the game AT ALL, and the reasons you've listed are exactly why

Ionian12/27/2015, 9:32:14 AM3 votes

"Assassin" main here Ahri

I really do enjoy how Riot has created a meta where the most hardcarrying and rewarding champions to play are also the easiest because all that is required to play them well is the ability to rightclick on players (marksmen) or the ability to right click on items to purchase them (tanks). AP champions, specially those that rely on skillshots, were too toxic because there was too much counterplay. This is not what Riot wanted in season 6 so their items had to get nerfed. But Riot still loves AP champions, so they're nerfing item 3092 (aka the less trash morello) and adding a new item for AD assassins! [slayer-jinx-wink]

Diver of Muffs12/27/2015, 10:41:15 AM3 votes

The entire game is so imbalanced right now. I can't play ranked without most of my team being terrible in almost every match. Why make all matches snowball for the team that's already snowballing? You give the team that's behind absolutely no chance of coming back unless the other team throws it. Not to mention that in most games where a team is behind it's because of trolls or the matchmaking system not adequately matching players according to their skill level*. And the rediculous amount of smurfs in game.

*I would like to see Riot import a new system of matchmaking in the future. One that's based on an individuals actual skill in game and not on what rank they've obtained by winning a greater percentage of their games with the teams they were matched with. Oh! and of course there's the huge problem of people elo boosting. I knew someone in game who had someone do this for him.

The Yetii Rider12/27/2015, 5:08:51 PM3 votes

It's not really that tanks are so strong because they can kill both assassins and marksmen. At least not in theory. Tanks are supposed to absorb burst, they are necessary to deal with assassins but they should be bursted down by marksmen no problem.

The issue is that marksmen players refuse to buy the new Last Whisper item because they are so convinced it is garbage since it only gives flat AD and armor pen. If players would actually build like they're supposed to, this wouldn't be nearly as big an issue.

Rebonack12/27/2015, 4:33:34 PM3 votes

Champs that most contribute to success are a bunch of Tanks, Juggernauts, Mages, and a couple Fighters.

Therefore Rangers are super OP.

That's more or less what I'm getting from this topic.

Have you considered that maybe the tanky folks are stronger because the class of champs typically used to keep them down lost ~60 raw AD end game as well as a large chunk of their armor penetration? Talon's squishy ass sure isn't going to do anything about a Mundo running amok.

FadedFreezy12/27/2015, 8:48:22 AM3 votes

I miss how things were before the pre season. Games are all about the snowball. The meta is always gonna be best but it feels like anything that isn't meta just isn't viable at all.

VDc0zCqe0w12/27/2015, 2:19:10 PM2 votes

What are you talkin about son?

ADCs are useless now, tanks are OP asfuck

Critmaster Garen12/27/2015, 9:06:30 AM2 votes

they dont even need to nerf tanks if they do this. they just need to do their mages rework in a couple of month and its all good.

just before preseason bruisers, melee adc and marksmen were equally capable of carrying games. there were even some mages like veigar and lux who were pretty strong.

i dont know why theyre still trying to make marksmen THE carry class that wrecks everything after 30 minutes. nobody enjoys it in the end. adc mains always want it but end up hating it because most of the time they get focused and bursted by literally everyone to the point where their potential is irelevant. and everyone else hates it because its hard to carry directly with other types of champions and it feels less rewarding for coming out strong of the lane phase. you always feel like an accessory to your own adc.

Sasogwa12/27/2015, 9:20:39 AM1 votes

And who's the Diamond 2 in there?

Ralanr12/27/2015, 5:12:43 PM1 votes

I can get why people hate tanks. I just want to say that tanks aren't meant to carry games, they're meant to help you carry a game by taking the brunt of everything and locking down targets.

There are damage champions that take advantage of tank items. I'm guessing this is where the tank hate comes from, the juggernauts.

Now the lack of anti tank items is frustrating. I once played MF and stacked both last whisper items (cause they had a Mundo) and was only missing BoRK against a team of mostly bruisers. Couldn't hurt them fast enough.

But if you make more anti tank items, make them easier to get, or much more effective, then tanks start becoming useless. We'll get threads about tanks being tin cans and only good for bot lane (I prefer tank top or jungle).

Assassins shouldn't be able to burst tanks like they do squishies.

Help Mee12/27/2015, 5:19:51 PM1 votes

Apologies in advance for the wall of text.

To be honest here. Most of the ADC's are fairly balanced right now with exception, to MF Luci and Vayne, they are undoubtedly going to get nerfed. You say nerf marksman as a role but yet you quite often see Mundo walking around 1v5 as he pleases and actually killing 3-4 of them. Not only is it mundo but trundle, Irelia, Malphite and Darius. But yet ADC's are the problem. How do you expect any ADC to possibly even kite champions like this. You just run, there is no feasible way to fight a bruiser like that(depending on summoners). The Majority of ADC's are fucked if the bruiser gets to sit on them. Nerf ADC's and they are even more fucked by bruisers, assassins are likely to destroy them and then the question arises of why even have ADC's in a game when you can have annie and bard bot lane.

Granted, that is an extreme outcome. ADC's have seen better days. Take a look at every single pro ADC player right now and thier match history. There is nothing wonderfull about it, 50/50 at best. The majority of them have issues with the new iteration of the marksman role.

Bruisers are getting stronger earlier, Mid laners have more burst than ever before because of thunderlords. Yet ADC's that cannot use Essence reaver in thier build rely on a 3 item powerspike. A build path that is far from gold efficient untill about 50% crit chance.

Titanium7012/27/2015, 11:33:49 PM1 votes

Thats actually... a quite good thread coming from you! x'D

I dont agree in all conclusions, but yeah Idea is correct. Burst>Carry>Tank>Burst OFC within a game like these there will be always variations - but the basic cycle should be this one.

I think the change to LW was correct Tanks should be unassassinatable - but Ranged Carries need a possibility to deal with Tanks which a) wont be abused by assassins (Hi BotrK) and b) doesnt invalidate Tanks completely.

Meanwhile Tanks should be able to deal with Assassins while not becoming unkillable by everything exept Vayne!

Squishy Mages (usually located between Burst and Carry) should go even with Tanks while NOT being comletely obliterated by Assassins while NOT oblitering Carrys but still keeping an advantage on them.

Tanky Mages such as my Swain should be even with Assassins, while having a disadvantage against Carries and an advantage against Tanks.

The Mages are in this spot I described right now, although they`re a little weaker overall. But Tanks oscillate between unkillable and utter garbage and Assassins tend to assassinate alot more than they should be able to.

........... sigh.... balance is hard... although I hate such forced builds i guess there is no way around some specific Items which only accessable by certain roles. Than again - this could be the easy unfun way - maybe Riot can come up with something else. ^^

Well right now I am curious about the announced Mage update, will be fun to be able to play them again wihtout the feeling of being outclassed by AD Champs and Itemisation (Hi Reaver). Although.. this wont fix the fundamental problems at all! x'D

just my 5 Cent

TahmKench Expert12/28/2015, 3:15:23 AM1 votes

If there's another assassin meta i'm uninstalling. There's no need to think that tanks (and don't lie, fighters too) are overpowered. There are multitudes of posts saying that when a thing, role, champion, or anything else, becomes powerful because it counters something really popular, it is keeping the game healthy. Lets say that tanks stayed at around 50% winrate with the recent turn of events. What does that say? Tanks are inneffective at their rock-paper-scissors counter? Thats not good in a favorable situation. Hit backspace. Tanks aren't happy with their lot in life either. Tank items have gotten repeated nerfs. Dead Man's Plate, one of my favorite items, got a nerf because it became the last go-to pick for most tanks. ADCs got the last whisper change too, but I don't play ADC enough to make a good observation on that. Remember though, ADCs got new items to refill that gap. Tanks have gotten nerfs with no redeeming qualities. As for assassins, I've never agreed with their design philosophy. I hate hate hate them. All the other roles have a certain level of "fadeaway counterplay". You can play safe, farm, or throw fadeaway q's to cling onto the last shreds of your dignity. An assassin is designed to force moments of no counterplay to get fed. Once you lose lane, you build tank Cassiopeia. Having fun listening to Zed laugh and bounce away from a lethal ult on you? Please, I have too much loathing for that role to not be biased. Thank God Tahm can bash assassins heads in. So, I encourage you to form your own opinion of the purpose of assassins.

FlyingInca12/28/2015, 8:34:41 AM1 votes

ADC is the only role on the team that is consistently filled by the same champs doing the same thing, which is different than any other role on the rift, even support has big swings and changes.