Nocturne's Kit Needs Improvement

Sly Red Fox·3/5/2015, 7:07:28 PM·49 votes·3,647 views

Nocturne has always been one of my favorite champions and was one of the first champions I ever mained. However, after all of the updates that have changed the jungle and other champions who jungle, he has fallen out of any sort of meta.

I see Nocturne as being able to go in one of two directions. Either Nocturne gains some sort of difficult to land but effective CC that utilizes the "fear" CC type (e.g. a shroud aoe that fears, artwork ideally being similar to the Q) OR he gains more single target burst assassanation abilities that rival other assassains such as Pantheon or Nidalee . Having CONSISTENT AoE CC is vital for his kit as of right now because of the massive CD on his ult (180 seconds at level 6! That means you get to use it to gank only 3 times in a ten minute period!). After Nocturne has ulted, his ganks are largely meaningless because his teathered fear is fairly dodgeable and is not even close to being instant like many other Jungler's CC (Fiddlesticks 's fear, JarvanIV flag-drag, Vi 's falcon punch, Rammus knock up and taunt, RekSai knock up, and those are just a few). I think that the best comparisons to Nocturne as a Jungler in the current meta are Pantheon and Nidalee . Pantheon is a burst assassain with a semi-global ult (obviously this is different than Top Pantheon). Nidalee is a mobile burst assassain with lots of mobility. What allows Nidalee's kit to be so interesting is her ability to chase with her Pounce. While she has no CC, she can deal enough damage AND chase well enough to catch a champion. Comparitively, the new changes to Ahri's kit also improve her mobility. Likewise, Nocturne needs more continuity and synergy within his kit.

**Problems: **

**1. Minimal Direct CC: ** Nocturne's only true CC comes from his E, a delayed single target fear. The major problems here are the 2 second delay before the fear, and the nature of the new fear chich causes the champion to counter-intuitively run away from him. CC should benefit the champion's chase, not cause the opponent continue to flee. The delay, combined with the insignificance and insignificance of the CC combine to necessitate a reevaluation of Nocturne's E. I love the new passive on the E, however the fear needs to be some sort of instant skill shot so that opponents are not able to run for 2 seconds before the fear is proc'd. I love the idea of having a speed boost towards feared champions but I do not feel as though it is enough. I would love to see Nocturne have some sort of interaction with fear champions.

**2. Long Ultimate CD: ** I think that Nocturne's ult damage and its effect are great. Honestly, as an effect, it is one of the most interesting and visually awesome ultimates in the game. However, the length of his ultimate's CD only provides more weakness into his kit that already has weak CC. Essentially the problem here is that without any early ganking power, he needds to have a considerable make up for that weakness before lane phase ends. With his current CD, he only has a few opportunites to gank with his ult during lane phase and without much CC to ensure a kill, it is difficult for him to take advantage of the uniqueness of his ultimate.

3. W Spell Shield is Weak: For a champion that needs to be up in your face to do damage and is designed to dive the opponents back line, having a single spell shield seems to be very ineffective to me. When you compare Nocturne 's spell shield to other similar abilities on assassains, he shows clear defficiencies. Look at Fizz 's Troll Poll for example. There are way more flexible dodges that can be made by Fizz's invulnerability than a single spell block. While obviously Nocturne's Ult is the most reliable dash to a backline in the game, if the opponens are peeling at all, it becomes difficult to avoid cointer that peel within his current kit (He is not bursty enough to eliminate the target quickly [without being relatively fed] nor is he tanky enough to withstand the damage he will take in the dive NOR does he have the CC or speed to prevent kiting). The difference between Nocturne 's spell shield and Sivir 's spell shield is that Nocturne is a a threatening melee assassain that needs to be up in the front of an oppoonents face whereas Sivir has a kit created specificially for kiting and maintaining a distance from her opponent. Nocturne's chase potential is not strong enough to warrant the simplicity of his W.

**Potential Remedies: **

1. Improve his ability to skillfully disregard opponent's CC. W Change his W to a short invulnerabiliy rather than a spell shield OR make Nocturne shortly stealthed. There are essentially three times when I use Nocturne's W. First is at range when someone with a poke ability is targetting me and I cannot dodge it. The second is when I use it after ulting to block a disengage which typically is at short range. The third is when I am running away from an opponent and blocking an engage tool like a Thresh hook or a Nami bubble. In these three options, there is only one scenario where the attack speed bonus gained from blocking a skill shot is of value. I think that if his spell shield is changed to either a short invulnerability or a short invisibility, that it will give him the ability to dodge skills on a more practical level, rather than dodging just a single spell (these abilities are comparable to Khazix , Fizz , Vladimir , MasterYi , Fiora Lissandra , Akali , MonkeyKing and others who have invulberaility or short stealths).

**2. Give Nocturne more ingrained kit burstiness. ** Nocturne's damage honestly leaves something to be desired. Although he statistically scales fairly well, it is difficult to build him purely AD (which he needs fore his ult to be effective in assassainating) because he must be tankier due to his inablitiy to dodge more than one CC skill with his current W. Some ideas for making Nocturne more bursty include making him do passively more damage based on afflictions that the opponent has. This would look as follows: Nocturne deals more damage if his target has been hit by his Q, then even more damage if attacking a target that has been hit by his Q and is feared, and then that damage is stacked and improved if that opponent's vision is currently being reduced by Nocturne's ultimate. The stacking idea makes for Nocturne players to need to act quickly to put as much of these afflictions on their target as possible so that they may deal damage during the window of all three affecting their target. Simple damage stackign multipliers can improve the kit without changing the kit entirely.

3. Either lower his Ult's CD or improve his early game ganking power by improving the CC in his E. Without the ability to gank pre-6 (e.g. meta junglers like Vi , RekSai , or JarvanIV ) or the ability to gank more frequently post-6 (e.g. lower cooldown ultimates like MonkeyKing or Malphite ) , Nocturne has little relevance outside of counter-jungling and counter-ganking. Providing an improvement into either his CC in ganks to improve his early ganks or reducing his ult cd will allow for him to bridge the gap of the meta.

4. Give Nocturne an interaction with feared champions that makes him viable alongside other champions with a fear (like Yasuo and knock ups) I think that Nocturne should have a duel passive where Umbra Blades are maintained but the second passive should be either one of the following or a combination: Nocturne gains movement speed comparable to Soraka 's movement speed passive when approaching feared targets or Nocturne gains a considerably increased magic damage on feared targets. I think that this flows well with the concepts of his kit as well as provides more team chemistry for him alongside other champions such as Fiddlesticks and Hecarim and others with fears. Furthermore, it provides more opportunities to insert fear into the game as a CC type and diversifies some of the CC concepts that are currently overused such as knock ups (yes rito, you have plenty of options for Yasuo now, not every champion needs a knock up).

Thematically, Nocturne is a champion that should initiate fear into the hearts of his oppponents. To do so, I think he needs more assassain-type qualities within his kit to be able to kill a specific target quickly. In his current form, however, Nocturne is incapable of being able to either survive during a dive to be a significant nuissance to the opposing team or burst an opposing champion down in a gank/pick. Without changes to Nocturne kit as a whole, I do not think that Nocturne can be a viable option on Summoner's Rift. And that's a summoner 11 ing shame! :(

TL;DR Nocturne's kit is not powerful enough in the current meta and he does not thematically fit into either the bruiser, fighter, or assassain role. He needs kit changes to redefine himself as a champion and to improve himself as a viable jungler. Some ideas include reworks to his W and E and reduction of on his ultimate's CD.

31 Comments

Jaygo413/5/2015, 10:04:50 PM7 votes

What if his W was like an "ethereal" mode or something where he became untargetable and gained movement speed or something like that? just a thought i used to play a bunch of noc but it just seems like he's been outclassed and he has nothing really unique in his kit besides his ult, whereas each of the above junglers has at least 2 cool things about them... noc seems like an auto attack bot with really weak crowd control

Navaro253/5/2015, 11:19:23 PM4 votes

As much as I love my nocturne, I can not agree with what you are saying because you simply see him as what he isn't.

In my eyes, and more now then ever, Noc never was an assassin or fighter for say but a farm/split-pusher that take the enemy's buff when they are gone (starving them from exp and gold) but also having the tool with his ult to get free kill on low life target in between two camps. You don't need to do big play as Noc you just take what is free and avoid unfavorable fights in order to build a gold lead. That's why you have all this sustain, chaise baised kit and teleport ult that rewards good DEEP words. It is to roam around to take every low cost /high reward chance at a gold lead.If you play Noc asking yourself at all times "What can I take for free cash or adventage close too me?" then this champ will give you world of elo. No buffs needed.

Auz the Ripper3/5/2015, 11:58:19 PM3 votes

I'm sorry but you lost me when you said the spellshield is weak. It's quite possibly his strongest skill when utilized correctly. The ability to disregard another ability is amazingly powerful and having it boost his AS makes it even better. Ignoring CC and denying executions is one of the greatest feelings.

.

And Honestly, I'd rather have Nocturne slightly weak than risk his becoming FotM and the inevitable Kneecapping that Always comes with

ColeOfTheWild3/10/2015, 7:30:16 PM2 votes

The only change I feel should be made is a lowered Paranoia cooldown. I haven't thought much about the numbers, but maybe they could do something similar to Ezreal's Mystic Shot - Trueshot Barrage relationship. Maybe make the proc of Umbra Blades lower the cooldown of Paranoia by however much. Like I said, I have no thoughts on numbers, but those could be adjusted. What made me think of this is that it gives incentive to continue building attack speed and stack your devourer. I've also thought about why Umbra Blades should be the ability to lower the cooldown in comparison to an active ability like Duskbringer. If it was linked to an active ability, you would be spamming that ability on camps so much that by the time Paranoia was off cooldown you wouldn't have the mana to successfully gank. At all points in the match I feel like Nocturne should be able to ult slightly less frequent than Rengar.

After brief thought on his role as an assassin, they could again simply make changes to Paranoia. Currently you can't build assassin very successfully because once you ult in, you die. Therefore bruiser Nocturne was born. Rather than adjusting abilities to give him some sort of dash, jump, etc. to escape, they could play off his theme of darkness. As an assassin once Nocturne Paranoia's in he needs to be able to quickly kill someone and get out. The issue here is that he currently has no way out. So once he gets in, they could make the damage taken extend the duration of Paranoia (Again no thought on numbers). This makes it so if he builds tank to abuse it and he's wailing on your ADC, he isn't a damage-based threat so you can intentionally not worry about him and the darkness will fade, and if you build him assassin, as you should, then you're obviously a threat to that carry's life and if they begin focusing you, you'll have Paranoia's darkness to help you slip out of the fight along with the fact that they're going to be experiencing even more darkness for that teamfight.

Just to reiterate, no thoughts on numbers.

Also, thoughts?

Croslee3/5/2015, 7:33:38 PM2 votes

When it really comes down to it Nocturne is a bruiser, not an assassin

metaworldpeace103/6/2015, 5:46:30 AM1 votes

While I don't agree with all of these points, I do think Nocturne's kit needs looked at. He has the skill set as an assassin, but is forced to build bruiser because of the lack of damage and cc he brings. I'd like to see his kit have more "fear" elements. When an enemy Nocturne ults, I get scared spitless, I think his fear needs improvement and I'd like to see a fear aspect built into his spell shield. Good post.

Síggy3/6/2015, 6:09:58 AM1 votes

What if they made it so if he goes on his Q passage he enters an eternal mode that allows him to go through walls. So for example he Qs a champ and the champ flashes over the wall, instead of flashing over that wall he can just go through it since the path is active. Just a thought.

Imperial Japan3/6/2015, 11:19:13 AM1 votes

He is the only jg champ that I think is op because of his ult and his ganks

Hard Penetrator3/6/2015, 12:29:01 PM1 votes

He needs a passive dmg boost on his aa (similar to WW) and shorter fear activation.

The Paulrus3/6/2015, 12:40:02 PM1 votes

I've played nocturne a little bit, but not extensively, so take my thoughts for what they're worth.

Nocturne's thematic is a fear inducing nightmare come to life. For someone who's thematic is so closely tied to fear, only having one fear on his kit, and a conditional one at that, is part of the problem.

Q - Honestly, I think a lot of the problems can be solved by giving Duskbringer Lissandra's E ability to basically blink to any location along the path. If he blinks up, it fears enemies around him for 1 second around him. CD increased to 20/19/18/17/16. CD is halved if the teleport is not used.

W - Pretty solid

E - Increase the fear duration to 1.25/1.50/1.75/2/2.25. Fiddle's Q is instant and has a longer fear duration and has no condition on it. Nocturne's is harder to hit and requires he stay near the enemy. Not a point and click ability and deserves at least as long of a fear.

R - I think the range is fine given the change to the Q as another gapcloser, however I think the CD should be reduce to 150/125/100 so he has more ganking potential early.

Junkο3/6/2015, 7:27:04 PM1 votes

Do you really want him to be "improved" after you saw what they did to Veigar and Morde?

4nth0l0gy3/6/2015, 7:45:17 PM1 votes

See, you said make W give noc invisibility, and my pants just got really tight all of the sudden.

Great suggestions. I like the stacking of damage based on how many of his skills are afflicting his target.

krawkaw3/7/2015, 6:21:00 PM1 votes

Great post OP!

I love some of your ideas, and I hope some of them get used. Riot could have a lot more fun with this champion, and the changes that you suggested seem fun to play as and against.

Yoshigamez5/19/2015, 2:55:46 PM1 votes

i find Nocturne really good in the current meta, since i main him. The only problem is that people build too tanky and not enough damage or too much damage and too squishy. you have to find the balance between those two and you will be fine. The only thing about nocturne is not enough aoe, what makes him kinda useless in some comps with too much single target damage. But overall he is a pretty good jungler right now. Btw the build path i usually go is item 3726 to get nice farm, go item 3142 and then defensive or offensive when im ahead.

Alric Nightshade3/5/2015, 7:44:13 PM1 votes

I completely agree seeing that he really doesn't have any gap closers except his ult and even then its Long CD makes it really thought provoking on if that situation will turn up with a kill or not during the gank as well as the times you use it just to survive. His Q is pretty great at chasing down champs but is hard to rely on for ganking seeing as a miss could really mess up the whole gank.

As for his fear, with that fear update it really doesn't help when you fear them and they just barely walk into tower range or simply cause you to walk right into the enemy team being a squishy assassin early on with a W that can be easily forced and waisted.
His kit is fun and interesting but as the OP said not the best fitting to the current meta.

He is the Eternal Nightmare so why not make him somewhat of a Nightmare to deal with :) As for a W change maybe make it similar to Akali 's W but more of a nightmare shroud that can be placed stealthing Nocturne as well as slowing the opponent if they run away from the center and fearing them instantly if Nocturne W's inside any w

RanmanReborn3/5/2015, 9:33:15 PM1 votes

He's in a horrible state due to the "League of Mobility" that this game has become. He used to be able to dive the ADC effectively, but now with supports like Thresh and Braum being played constantly, they're just able to keep him off them so well. On top of that, his ult just has an unjustifiably high CD on level 1.

Sooko3/5/2015, 11:29:15 PM1 votes

I don't play Nocturne, but I do believe he is the true healthiest assassin in LoL. (looking at you, Zed) This is mainly because once you go in and murder someone, it takes you a lot of skill to get out alive, instead of just using all of that mobility that is given you for free.

Anyway, he feels really lacking compared to other assassins whose kit synergizes perfectly with itself. (I really like that fear idea BTW, more damage rather than movespeed which Nocturne should already probably have thanks to his Q) And I think that he deserves to have either more CC or (somehow) better sustain to compete with other junglers that can gank effectively better than him pre-6 and whose ultimates aren't even on such a high cooldown.

UPfreely3/6/2015, 2:28:57 AM1 votes

i think he's just bad cuz of the general increases in mobility, kind like how amumu is also bad because its hard to hug your enemies to death.