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Enchanters are not the problem, ADCs themselves are

TheShréktEffect··6 votes·556 views

While I do agree that item 3504 is definitely far too strong an item right now, as it has been for months now, one thing I think many overlook is the fact that ADCs themselves are far too strong. I will explain why.

ADCs are supposed to be a fragile, yet devastating class, capable of dishing out immense amounts of damage if untouched. This makes sense from a design perspective, just as tanks are almost precisely the opposite: they bring heavy CC and durability, but they sacrifice their own damage for it. Of course tanks need to deal SOME damage, so as to remain somewhat threatening.

Looking at it this way, tanks are relatively balanced power-wise. Their role makes sense, they are healthy (most of the time). High CC and defense, but low damage. Like in a cart racing game, some characters have high acceleration, but low speed, while others have high speed, but poor acceleration or turning. This makes the game balanced, because there is no all around class, they each have their strengths and weaknesses, each is good for certain tracks, and performs poorly on others.

However, I would argue that this is not the case with ADCs. ADCs are meant to be a low durability and CC, but very high damage class. They should rely on their team to protect them, to allow them to do their main job; deal damage. Yet this is not what we see. Many ADCs have ways to protect themselves, either via mobility or CC, or sometimes even both (Vayne). Taking all ADCs into account, I would roughly rate their CC capability at around 4 out of 10. I think this is far too high. Sure, Ashe's ultimate is pretty much the core of her identity, and as a skillshot it's quite balanced (except it's ridiculous hitbox). Nonetheless, ADCs shouldn't have that many tools to defend themselves. Tristana is the biggest offender here, having both a knockback AND a jump, which can be reset quite easily.

On top of that, ADCs can tap into far greater survivability than they ought to be able to access. Lifesteal. While this isn't in my opinion a HUGE problem, it can lead to extremely frustrating moments, where an ADC is able to pretty much facetank any incoming damage. Of course, if they are not CC'ed and focused down quickly, this makes some sense that they should be able to do that. But when a lone ADC can out-lifesteal an assassin's burst, given that they are roughly equal item-wise, this becomes an issue. Most notably Draven with item 3812 comes to mind, but this is mostly due to the item itself, rather than the champion, I will admit.

One solution to this could be simply reducing lifesteal's effectiveness on critical strikes. Speaking of critical strikes, unhealthy as the concept itself is, I think crit is FAR too easily accessible a stat right now. It makes no sense to me that zeal items which give MORE crit chance than item 3031 are also cheaper. Zeal items should be easily accessible, yes, but they should not be the main source of crit. item 3031 should be as expensive as item 3089, and give more crit chance, say 40%, while zeal items should all give maybe 20% each.

Anyway, all these things combined allow ADCs, a champion class which is supposed to be extremely team reliant to perform well in positions they were not meant for. Lucian mid or top, Corki mid, Twitch and Ezreal jungle, etc.

ADCs should be far, far weaker without their team's protection. A lone ADC splitpushing without vision should almost NEVER be able to come out on top of an assassin's ambush, for example. They should not be able to simply facetank an entire team's focus, or "outplay" a 1v5. They should be far more fragile than they are right now, barely surviving a 1v1 lane or in the jungle, relying heavily on their team's protection.

This is the inherent problem with this class, item 3504 just adds insult to injury.

14 Comments

rhintheminstrel1 votes

I do agree on how strong crit items are and needs to be looked at especially the item 3087 item 3094 combo paired with Warlord's Bloodlust and cheaper itemization , I think the root cause of why hyper carries are strong is because of tanks. Hyper carries are the only one who could actually deal with them with their constant dps. And what's good with hyper carries? Protective comps. This is how the ardent abusers and tanks come more into play, their main role is to protect the ad carry. With how centralising tanks are, team comps are mostly formed on how to protect the adc.

Tanks also surprisingly deal a lot of damage whilst having a gamut of crowd control, utility, and defense. Galio is an example of this. He's the tank that is played mid because of his strong wave clear (also deals %health damage) while having a ton of utility and crowd control, aoe taunt, aoe damage reduction with an aoe knockup with damage and mobility. Chogath is another one but I think I don't need to explain why. And ofcourse, Maokai is the same as Galio but more tanky.

The introduction of the new item 1054 and the nerf to lane bullies Caitlyn (was gutted but is now decent again) Jhin (fell out of favor due to him having a bad time with tanks) Zyra (nerfed and new Dshield made her damage weaker) Karma(nerfed and outclassed as an enchanter because of her more aggressive approach) gave more ways to let hyper carries to easily farm their items.

I also agree on how strong life steal is. But right now, I think it's fine. A buff to grievous wounds would sound a better alternative. Grievous wound is a joke when the AD already has a life steal item. A recommendation would be let grievous wounds scale based on champion's level, make it weaker early then stronger late game. As of now it has a 40% healing reduction. I think this should scale. Maybe starting from 20% upto 60% healing reduction (not sure on the numbers but you get my point).

iLBGAMing1 votes

You say in the title that ADC's are broken, but it's only the minority of them Tristana Twitch Vayne KogMaw I don't see why everyone is complaing about ADC's when they are finally furfilling their purpose, meanwhile no one talks about the fact that Chogath can 1 shot them with stone plate or the fact that Zed can delete anyone at this point with full lethality unless you have a lot of health.


A lot of things are strong right now and everyone is turning all the blame to the Ardent Censer and the ADC's, when the real problems are right now JarvanIV Zed Chogath Fiora Fizz Khazix Shyvana Talon MonkeyKing


Looking at some of your suggestions you might as well just remove the ADC role since it can't be balanced to the communities liking.

Kaeblen1 votes

I don't see why everyone is complaing about ADC's when they are finally furfilling their purpose

Explain.

iLBGAMing2 votes

I don't see why people are saying that ADC's are "broken" as well as I don't understand what others think the purpose of ADC's are...

Most people see the ADC role to be that kinda role that is not doing much besides right clicking to provide damage in team fights, and before ADC's became stronger if someone would of said the word ADC most people would of said immediately "oh the role where everyone bursts you down and you can't do anything?" or "LUL ADC in 2017".

There is a reason to why they are called the Attack Damage Carry, and when they are finally fulfilling the purpose that they need to everyone starts to cry about it like 10 year olds. The reason as to why most people are complaining is because they just hate the ADC role and are unhappy because ADC's as of late can actually outplay other champions for once.

Saying that this role is broken is stupid when other roles that are equally just as broken AKAFiora Malzahar Katarina Zed Vladimir .

But to sum it all off, yes I do agree that the role has become significantly stronger because of this; item 3504 item 3031 item 3087 item 3094 Tristana

undesirable team1 votes

Lategame carries scale way too fast. item 3504 +item 3031 item 3087 item 3094

iLBGAMing1 votes

Mostly these champs Tristana Twitch Caitlyn Draven

undesirable team1 votes

{quoted}

Mostly these champs Tristana Twitch Caitlyn Draven

draven aint a lategame carry fam forgot KogMaw

iLBGAMing1 votes

I didn't mention Kog because he doesn't really build crit

Martyrofsand1 votes

It's not just the items. I went into lane as a Sona against a tristana and as soon as Trist hit 6 she jumped on me, I immediately hit her with my W power chord to reduce her damage by 26%. During the 3 seconds in which she had 26% damage reduction he AAed me twice followed by her ult with her E exploding on me and I died from 100% HP.

Yeah if you are a late game hyper carry and you are killing someone as soon as you hit six from 100 to zero with a 26% damage reduction effect applied you champs early game is completely bullshit and needs to be nerfed hard. Trist should have the same early game as a Twitch or Vayne, get bullied like crazy because she is a weak pile of trash but given the high damage late game both of them get if she is suppose to be balanced.

I once tried to justify Trist but after that I simply can't as there is no justification for her.

Sona Ping1 votes

{quoted}

It's not just the items. I went into lane as a Sona against a tristana and as soon as Trist hit 6 she jumped on me, I immediately hit her with my W power chord to reduce her damage by 26%. During the 3 seconds in which she had 26% damage reduction he AAed me twice followed by her ult with her E exploding on me and I died from 100% HP.

Yeah if you are a late game hyper carry and you are killing someone as soon as you hit six from 100 to zero with a 26% damage reduction effect applied you champs early game is completely bullshit and needs to be nerfed hard. Trist should have the same early game as a Twitch or Vayne, get bullied like crazy because she is a weak pile of trash but given the high damage late game both of them get if she is suppose to be balanced.

I once tried to justify Trist but after that I simply can't as there is no justification for her.

Of course she did that in your last game, a supp loses there. Especially as Sona, of all champions.

You're playing as an easy-to-burst, squishy, late-game champion yourself, with a greedier build, in a lane you've already given a double kill to (which you left out), and then you misposition and don't respect their advantage, what's going to happen is that you're going to get taken down. Giving everything else the benefit of doubt that's still wrong. Even with exhaust, which is better, you already know you don't get saved just by having it. That is what is expected to happen; you don't get to disregard game fundamentals and chalk it up to "that champion is OP, nerf cause their late-game champion shouldn't be able to beat my late-game champion, who, unrelated, is also the #2 support".

Martyrofsand1 votes

Sona is not even close to the number 2 support, frankly she is pretty much dead last on the list of supports. Additionally there is no "mispositioning" against a Trist who can jump half the lane and still be in range to burst you, hell with her resets and ult she can jump UNDER YOUR TURRET and do the exact same thing and still get out without even fearing dying.

You act like a Trist with a pickax, which is all she had, should be able to burst someone even when she is debuffed to do significantly less damage and want to defend that as a legit game mechanic for a champion who can melt the tankiest of champs in the late game, its not not even close.

Then again I look over your profile, much like you did me, and what do I find,

1--you don't play ranked, 2--You build build garbage like RoA on Sona apparently obvious to how bad that is 3--You build straight AP from the support position regardless to if you are or are not fed.

Simply put you are bad and have no clue about how to play Sona, or what balance would actually look like.

Sona Ping2 votes

I did not look up your profile, there's no reason to because it's not relevant to anything. You are the one who brought up your game as reasons for your argument. A normal person would think it obvious that others would look those reasons to try to see your point

What's also obvious is that it is fair to say that Sona is the number two support in because she has the second highest winrate on supports with a greater than 1% pick rate, because she's so good with the obviously OP Ardent Censer that you were rushing. You know, that one item you buy every game.

What? It's not that! The issue is that having such OP things in this game is unacceptable and Tristana is OP! And not at all that you are complaining because you picked the highest winrate champ you could with Ardent Censer and you got the highest winrate ADC but didn't get that free win you should have gotten nor is it that you are taken it out on people to distract from the fact someone actually looked at the evidence you brought up yourself and saw that you left out information that discredited your own statement.

Martyrofsand1 votes

1--You didn't discredit anything, no ADC in the game other than Tristana would pull that off with a Pickax. Hell Graves who is the burst champ of ADCs might be your only shot at actually getting that to work and he is known as the definitive early game ADC. So let's just put this into perspective, an ADC who has the early game of the best early game ADC also packs one of the best late games of any ADC while being insanely safe. This is what you call over powered and more than deserving of a nerf, IE the point I was making.

2--Your evaluation of Sona is significantly lacking. You are using the same argument that has been debunked over and over and over again, IE "look at muh winrate." By those standards, Malz is the best mid laner, and Singed is the best top laner, but we know that isn't true. "But muh winrate" is the argument of the ignorant attempting to sound intelligent when they have no understanding of how the game actually works or how to evaluate champions.

And for reference right now the best support in the game is Rakan, however if you look at it his winrate is all of 49.3% putting him at 11th on the list of 17 supports, not including Brand/Vel/AP picks in general, although if you did include those Annie/Brand/Zilien/Veiger/Vel all have higher winrates than Rakan.

3--Yes I do buy Ardent first almost every game, most people tend to buy the best items when attempting to win ranked game. No Ardent is far from OP in it's current state, it's old state sure current state it's simply strong. Sona is decent with it but nothing compared to Janna/Rakan/Lulu/Raka/Taric who all use the item far better than Sona ever will.

Janna is obvious as she gives additional AD to abuse with the atk speed on top of reseting fights with her ult while giving everyone on her team the buff.

Rakan gives the buff to generally at least 2 people, which often times is all that really use it, but also provides a hard engage that out right breaks the game.

Lulu not only provides the atk speed of the censer she also provides an additional steroid via Pix and can also provide additional move speed and further atk speed with her W on her carry if she is not concerned with them getting dove, which many times she isn't in a tank meta.

Raka can keep the Ardent buff up 100% of the time as soon as she buys it while providing the on command buff to everyone on her team at will from anywhere on the map.

Taric gives the buff in 2 locations, can give a third with the shield can provide a stun equal to Sona's ult and can make his entire team immune to death for 2.5 seconds.

Now contrast this with Sona who's W requires her to be in extremely close range to all but 1 person to give them the buff and she has no real control over who that 1 person that gets her heal will actually be since % max HP of all champs changes so much over the course of a team fight. She is clunky and unsafe in her delivery of the buff and only provides the ardent buff without any other real steroid to go with it, aside for maybe her 1 AA Q buff. This means she literally is giving the least of any other Ardent support to her team. She is by far the worst support to uses it.

Rins Thigh Socks1 votes

"The problem with ADCs is that they're too durable." lists one item that's only abused by one champion and blames lifesteal when it's the lowest it's been in the game for ages

Try again.

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