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Come on Riot...Is Kindred's kit for real???

YossarianSensei·10/19/2015, 12:59:34 AM·5 votes·1,791 views

EDIT: This isn't about Kindred being OP or not, IDC about her state of balance. My primary complaint is that Kindred's ult is just being used as a huge equalizer. Regardless of Riot's intent to have her ult be this awesome strategic tool, what actually happens is people press R on Kindred then everyone sits in it. The majority of what determines a win in LoL for most players isn't team fighting, team fights are the least predictable part of a match. The reliable method to win a game is to push for an advantage and fight to keep that advantage - Kindreds ult is too strong at equalizing any advantage for either team, effectively lowering the carry potential for everyone in the game.

I understand Riot's running low on ideas after 150 or so champs, but if I wanted to play a MOBA full of bull----- mechanics I'd play Heroes of the Storm

Kindred This champ is stupid in so many ways I can't even begin to name them all

  1. As with a lot of champions lately, the 'burden of knowledge' is really damn high. I've been around since the beginning of LoL and one of the core principles of this game has been clarity and simplicity. Maybe most of the LoL community is now too old and experienced to care about simplicity, but for spectators and newbies alike, all these flashy new skills are not in any way obvious of their intent and belong more in DOTA than LoL. Ekko "he has a bunch of glowing circles and all of them are bad for you especially if he's standing inside one of the glowing circles and also if he flashes to his clone that you can only see 50% of the time because it's so buggy then you die instantly. Also he has like 5 blinks" Kindred "He/She/trans/wolf-kin/whatever also has a lot of glowing circles and most of them are bad for you but the red one does a lot of dmg but sometimes the yellow one is OK for you but most of the time its bad its like when you're in it you take dmg but you don't die but it's not like you drop to 1 hp it's like it stops doing damage if it would kill you but most of the time you don't wanna be in the circle cuz then he/she/it/we/wolf/cow also has her other circle on it which is all the time bad for you."

  2. Her ult is dumb. Sure, it makes the game more fun for 'team players' AKA LCS but I'm pretty sure 99.9% of the population doesn't find it entertaining the entire Assassin class is rendered useless by Kindred mashing R. Beyond that, not dying is already a dumb mechanic TahmKench Tryndamere item 3157 , and this ult takes that to a whole new level. Kindred is the latest in a long line of champions that allow bad players to make horrible mistakes and not be punished for it. Now I understand this isn't the Soviet Union and it wouldn't be fun if players were harshly punished for every mistake they make, but at some point a line needs to be drawn between forgiveness and 'get out of jail free'. This ult devalues teams who make the effort to catch people out and make a pick through superior coordination and vision control because Kindred just Ults then suddenly nobody dies for the next 12 minutes, followed by "BAITED AND OUTSMARTED" in chat.

  3. I thought we were trying to cut down on RNG? When Kindred gets in a fight she presses R then everyone stands in the circle slapping each other and the guy who happens to have the last auto flying out as the ult drops emerges victorious. This ult is literally the most bull shyt way to win or lose a team fight. Kindred Ult MIGHT make A LITTLE sense if she were a mage or something who needed to time her spells to hit at the last second, but as an ADC she just right clicks and prays she gets the last auto; the RNG is basically on par with the old dodge mechanic.

  4. Kindred jungle??? Why? Nidalee is bad enough I really don't think it's in the best interest of the game to tolerate ranged junglers. Kindred might not seem annoying now when Juggernauts and other melee classes are actually doing 'OK' right now, but come another heavy ranged Meta like S4's 4 ranged every team every game meta, the Jungle is has been the one place Melee champs stay on top.

39 Comments

lolipopevelynn10/19/2015, 1:29:21 AM4 votes

kindred is weak. 47% winrate and dropping. she is too dependant on her passive. she is the embodiment of "feast of famine" type champs

Brimaz The King10/19/2015, 1:04:47 AM3 votes

Point 3 is valid.

BluePolarizer10/19/2015, 3:00:32 AM3 votes

the ult changes the way you play, true, but it does raise the skillcap for forcing players to think in a way they aren't used to.

Ellphi10/19/2015, 1:36:00 AM2 votes

  1. Ehhhh.... maybe

  2. True. I hate Assassins myself but Kindred just utterly shits on dive champs which I don't think is fair. There should at least be a long long channel time so you have to use it with a little prior planning....

  3. Yes absolutely agree. I know there's gunna be people out there bein like 'bruh you gotta time your last hit' but of the games I've played with a Kindred, I've seen literally 0 people timing their autoattacks. ADCs attack too fast, I'm pretty sure it's actually worse to 'time your last hit' than to just let RNGsus take the wheel.

  4. Ehh...

TehNACHO10/19/2015, 1:08:10 AM2 votes
  1. I would think big glowing circles coming out of an enemy champion are almost always a bad thing, so no clue what you're trying to say about Ekko being too damn hard to figure out. Kindred's a slightly more fair argument in regards to her ult but it really should not be hard to realize that standing in a giant circle another champion made is probably not going to be your best decision. I really don't get your argument, as if "OH, a circle, made by an enemy champion! I SHOULD TOTALLY STAND IN IT! Ahh, it hurts, why was it not clear that something made by an enemy champion would probably not be good to stand in!!!! DAMN YOU RITOOOOOOOO!!!"
  2. The irony of your argument here is that Assassins are usually the progenitors of #LCSBIGPLAYS arguments, not the butt of them, so you've got yet another thing backwards here.
  3. Let me guess. You also auto attack minions consistently and don't time your last hits. Think about how this statement relates to your argument against Kindred's ult. It should be simple.
  4. I bet you argue that the Jungle also isn't diverse enough too.
khorney10/19/2015, 1:25:20 AM1 votes

fck u heroes of the storm is awesome lol why hate on it

Yes Elise Supp10/19/2015, 1:16:15 AM1 votes

You mean TahmKench Tryndamere item 3157 Kayle Bard Yorick ? You're a few years late, sir.

On the subject of her mechanics, she is literally one of the easiest champs to learn. Obviously, that does not imply one will be good with her all of a sudden, but her kit underwhelmingly simple to understand unlike most. cough Azir Fiora

On the subject of her ult, she is vastly under-ranged and will usually get stomped by a tank or burst mage before she can react once the ult is over. It is so significant to her playstyle, in fact, that it actually takes very good positioning and playmaking skills to actually make good use of a Respite in a team fight and not get rekt after. I'll also point out that people with high remaining health should be getting AWAY from the circle, not diving into it, and assassins especially should be taking that into heart, waiting for it to end before their conclusive strike. Conversely, tanks can dive INTO the circle because they will have higher end health than anyone else in the ult when it ends. You know where I only see the whole "everyone dive into the circle and hit everyone else" minigame? Bronze/Silver.

With full due respect, I feel like a lot of your issue is coming with inexperience with Kindred or playing with inexperienced Kindreds. Kindred has balance issues, but those are with underwhelming range and overwhelming sustain, not with some simple ult mechanic that most players eff themselves over with in the long run anyways.

71389310_DEL10/19/2015, 1:51:40 AM1 votes

As with a lot of champions lately, the 'burden of knowledge' is really damn high. I've been around since the beginning of LoL and one of the core principles of this game has been clarity and simplicity. Maybe most of the LoL community is now too old and experienced to care about simplicity, but for spectators and newbies alike, all these flashy new skills are not in any way obvious of their intent and belong more in DOTA than LoL. Ekko "he has a bunch of glowing circles and all of them are bad for you especially if he's standing inside one of the glowing circles and also if he flashes to his clone that you can only see 50% of the time because it's so buggy then you die instantly. Also he has like 5 blinks" Kindred "He/She/trans/wolf-kin/whatever also has a lot of glowing circles and most of them are bad for you but the red one does a lot of dmg but sometimes the yellow one is OK for you but most of the time its bad its like when you're in it you take dmg but you don't die but it's not like you drop to 1 hp it's like it stops doing damage if it would kill you but most of the time you don't wanna be in the circle cuz then he/she/it/we/wolf/cow also has her other circle on it which is all the time bad for you."

I'm not going to talk about Ekko but I agree Kindred has a lot of circles. Yes, most of their circles do mean bad news for anybody trying to fight them but they're weak enough that, when alone, they're easy to deal with as long as you haven't allowed them to get more than six passive stacks. The most dangerous circles are the ones that show up on the minimap: camps marked for death by Wolf that will continue to appear until they have six stacks. Kindred becomes dangerous when she has about eight stacks ( equal to 10% of a foe's current health; each stack is equal to 1.25% of a foe's current health ( getting eight stacks requires them to get A MINIMUM of two kills on champions unless they are exploiting the passive's bug ) and only results after Kindred is allowed to feed unchallenged by the opposing team.

The other circles are Wolf's Frenzy, Lamb's Respite and Mounting Dread.

Wolf's Frenzy has two purposes active ( when the circle is active ) purposes: Allowing Lamb to move with Q every two seconds to dodge as the Golem strikes, the Krugg strikes, a foe champion strikes, etc. while allowing her to counter attack and letting Wolf attack ( independently or with Lamb ) for additional damage. If you can chase her out of the circle ( Wolf's territory ) Wolf will stop attacking and the skill will go on CD leaving only the passive sustain of the skill active.

Lamb's Respite is all about timing. It pairs great with CC or reset skills/champions ( Cho'Gath/Katarina ) and making sure your team is able to take advantage of this is going to be one of the big hallmarks that separates good Kindred players from the great ones. A good Kindred player will use Lamb's Respite, Wolf's Frenzy shortly after and wait for the prior to go down before Lamb uses Q to finish off foes while dodging damage. A great Kindred player will make sure her team is either full of CC or resets ( Cho'Gath/Katarina ) to wipe out the enemy team. If you can knock her team out of the ult ( Mega-Gnar/Lee Sin/Vayne ) and then get off some attacks before Lamb's Respite goes off you should be able to win your engage but keep in mind it is something Kindred's team can do as well.

Mounting Dread is Kindred's bunker-buster: stick that skill onto somebody built like a brick wall and watch them crumble as that skill works with her passive. If you find you've been hit with this skill you may want to consider flashing away as her getting three auto attacks on you will prompt Wolf to dive at you ( his dive is actually the third auto attack ) and do an extra 5% of your maximum health and %AD damage in addition to the current health % damage from the passive stacks. The person hit is also slowed by 70% for one second and that slow is enough for her team to capitalize on anybody trying to run away with their team.

Her ult is dumb. Sure, it makes the game more fun for 'team players' AKA LCS but I'm pretty sure 99.9% of the population doesn't find it entertaining the entire Assassin class is rendered useless by Kindred mashing R. Beyond that, not dying is already a dumb mechanic TahmKench Tryndamere item 3157 , and this ult takes that to a whole new level. Kindred is the latest in a long line of champions that allow bad players to make horrible mistakes and not be punished for it. This ult devalues teams who make the effort to catch people out and make a pick through superior coordination and vision control because Kindred just Ults then suddenly nobody dies for the next 12 minutes, followed by "BAITED AND OUTSMARTED" in chat.

If you find you've been "BAITED AND OUTSMARTED" then you simply need to learn what went wrong and move on. While it is true that Tahm, Tryndamere and Zhonya's can be very forgiving to somebody who just screwed up you only benefit from that if you have the skill to activate the skill(s) and/or items in time. In the case of Lamb's Respite it isn't just about giving your team a second chance but using it actually turns a match into a chess game for a few seconds. The outcome of Lamb's Respite all depends on how a team acts within the circle which means making fewer mistakes and/or not making a major mistake. Instead of thinking of the skill as something that saves the other team try thinking of it as a chance to grant your team an even more secure victory and/or taking it as a warning that your team needs to regroup. By the way, if you have a Zilean or Kayle on your team you can garen-tee at least one of your team members lives long enough to secure at least one kill which swings things heavily into the favor of your team.

I thought we were trying to cut down on RNG? When Kindred gets in a fight she presses R then everyone stands in the circle slapping each other and the guy who happens to have the last auto flying out as the ult drops emerges victorious. This ult is literally the most bull shyt way to win or lose a team fight. Kindred Ult MIGHT make A LITTLE sense if she were a mage or something who needed to time her spells to hit at the last second, but as an ADC she just right clicks and prays she gets the last auto.

It isn't about who has the last auto attack but about who has played Lamb's skill to their advantage the best. Kindred are like the "grim reaper" in the sense that their job is to go around giving the final blow to those on their deathbed. As an entity that focuses on life and death Lamb's Respite fits in perfectly with their theme.

Kindred jungle??? Why? Nidalee is bad enough I really don't think it's in the best interest of the game to tolerate ranged junglers. Kindred might not seem annoying now when Juggernauts and other melee classes are actually doing 'OK' right now, but come another heavy ranged Meta like S4's 4 ranged every team every game meta, the Jungle is has been the one place Melee champs stay on top.

Why not make her a Jungler? Their theme has it so they hunt all things that are dying; not just champions. It isn't like they 100% dominate other junglers but closer to the opposite: you can easily counter them by forcing them away from their camps and killing them when they go to take one of yours to enhance their passive. Try warding the camp with their icon and then collapsing on her with somebody on your team when she goes to collect their soul. I promise your favorite melee champ will stay on top ( barring any extreme item/champion changes, nerfs or buffs ) as long as you and your team can prevent her from getting more than six stacks.

DrNova10/19/2015, 2:41:32 AM1 votes

Long story short you don't know shit about a new champ and are frustrated. K.

Croanin10/19/2015, 2:55:26 AM1 votes

"Lol I cant die" Mechanics are just annoying period. Zilean since Season 1 is just annoying to play against as is Kayle. Now we have Tahmn Kench and Thresh that just bail their team out of situations when they should be dead to rights.

The only mechanic I think is fine is Aniva's egg since she's immobile and useless in that state and can be killed. Tryndamere is quite easy to play around also.

LaserDeathBlade10/19/2015, 1:09:09 AM1 votes

I do like Kindred aesthetically, but I have to agree her kit is pushing too many boundaries

I know she's a fantastic champ for coordinated teamplay but I think it's important to remember the vast majority of games in LoL are uncoordinated solo queue or normal games in which mechanics like Kindred's ult are pretty broken

Icestar118610/19/2015, 3:16:33 PM1 votes
  1. Is it really that hard to understand their kit? Honestly, I have no trouble at all with the new champions. It sounds less like you aren't capable of understanding it and more like you don't want to bother. Overly simple kits are boring and it's easy to find out what skills do - just check the champion's store page.
  2. It's a team game. It should be fun for team players. And frankly, there's a difference between "Nobody on my team dies omg lolz" and "Nobody on either team dies. I have to play strategically."
  3. Ways to play around Kindred's ult strategically: CC them near the end to guarantee you get the "last auto," knock the enemies out of it (Maokai, Lee, Thresh, Vi), use it to get a safe escape or buy time for an ally to help, etc.
  4. Nidalee is a horrible jungler. Unless she gets really fed really early, she feeds. I don't think a single ranged jungler - with a pretty short range - will ruin the jungle. Also, in response to you melee champs argument: Top lane and ALL viable tanks.