Boards›Gameplay

Riot, an honest discussion

likeanepicbau5·12/2/2018, 4:10:17 PM·23 votes·12,440 views

Vision- one of the most important parts of the game. First, wards were removed and we were left with our trinkets and sightstones. Now sightstone was removed. This was done in the name of supports having more options for items? Removing 3 items from the game somehow gives you more options? Removing sightstone and making you complete a mission to be able to have vision means if you’re behind, you will stay behind and have no potential because you can never see the enemy team. It means that because on a tank support, you now need to farm to get vision for your team. If you play a tank support and you roam to assist mid lane, you could end up worse off than your enemy support in terms of sightstone completion. Please consider adding it back. This was one of the biggest reasons I stopped playing for a long time. It just felt like it didn’t make sense st all. I’m not here to say “oh season x was way better they have to go back to be good old days” because some of the changes have been good. I don’t like new nunu but he is a good champion and it was a good rework and I love the fact that you left old nunubot laugh in. Banner of command was a fun item but was hard to balance, so I understand that. The map keeps getting cooler looking especially around worlds. The cursor was changed, sadly, but there is a way to get it back because you know old players may be set in their ways. Riot, all I’m asking is for you to seriously consider sightstone being put back into the game and stop being set in “well we removed it so we can’t bring it back in”

27 Comments

Radiant Wukong12/2/2018, 4:45:41 PM16 votes

This is an eyesore, you need to learn how to format better. Structure, sentence fluency, all relevant.

IX3212/3/2018, 4:29:59 AM5 votes

A couple of points I would like to make both for and against this issue. As a preface let me say that I am for wards and vision in the game.

Riot has said that they would like to decrease decision fatigue players experience especially when there is an option that is strictly better. As this applies to sight stone, in almost every single pro-game of league in every region sight stone was bought. This implies that not buying a sight stone is such a high cost that the decision isn't the players to make, yet the player still has to make the decision to buy it or not. The main advantage that period had was when to buy the item prioritizing early damage or early vision control. Riot has removed the decision of whether or not to buy vision. Now the matter of a players choice is whether to try to roam to help other lanes with ganks or to stay in lane and try to get your wards faster. The cost benefit of these decisions is you might get your mid ahead, they end laning stage early and roam around the map. (which adds vision for your team) If the gank doesn't go well you have traded off guaranteed vision from the quest early for a chance to get vision possibly earlier.

Riot also said, as was stated, that one of the reasons of the decision for wards to be connected to support items while removing the non-ward variant was to increase supports item diversity. Over several years this has both succeeded and failed depending on which factors you look at. If we once again look at pro-games from the time period years ago, season 5 is the example I will give, almost every game item 3105 (Aegis of the legion) was bought by the support player. So in their 6 item slots, 1 gold income, 2 boots, 3 sight stone, 4 aegis of legion, 2 slots for choices. (not given in order items were bought, also the sight stone item could condense with gold income item for less slots but that was a decision) Now supports have more open slots to work with, 1 gold/wards, 2 boots, 4 slots for choices. As a whole supports still are not allowed to choose every item, a fail for their reason, but supports do get a lot more diversity, a success for their reason.

Being able to buy vision was an important part of the game, it said as a player/team 'I think information is more important than stats'. As we have seen time and time again over the years that information IS more important than stats in most cases. When you can work as a team communication, is information, when we buy wards, is information, when we ping, that's information. Information is powerful. One time or another we have all been stomped by a team of players that had better communication with one another. Before league added voice chat using another program to communicate with your team was a strict advantage outside the control of the game. One of the problems with the ability to buy wards is until you learn that lesson of how powerful communication and information is, as a player you will be outclassed by those until you prioritized information where appropriate.

On the note of information and smart decisions, lets talk about the current state of vision in lanes in regards to junglers. When you do not have vision and do not have your jungler on the same side of the map you are suppose to play 'smart' play passive and respect that the other jungler may be near. This leads to less kills, safe play, and 'boring' play, which according to riot they are trying to get rid of playing too safe. Having more vision as a whole means you can be more risky when you have it. With the most recent changes to towers and the bounty system they are trying to balance this safe, smart playstyle by enticing you to take more risks while ahead or behind. If you are behind you get more gold if that risky play pays off. While ahead you get more gold if you try to be risky and push your advantage on them and their tower, that has a limited time offer.

TL;DR Many of the mechanics and decisions that were present with buying wards and sight stones are still there in regards to top tier play, though they have a different face. I do want more vision and wards in game. I want other players to be able to invest in vision in more meaningful ways than a control ward.

Powdery Beans12/3/2018, 2:44:24 AM4 votes

I see what you're saying, but the quests are definitely better. My solution to your issue is: Past 10 minutes, every minute, add 23 and 1/3 gold towards the quest. You will not receive gold, only points towards the quest.

Poop Johnson12/2/2018, 11:37:22 PM3 votes

Sightstone being removed was less about supports and more about jungle because a bunch of junglers built it and gave their team a whole lotta vision. The current way you get a warding item works perfectly fine but it could use some lowering (maybe 400-450).

Vision shouldn't be about how many glowing sticks i put into the ground and more about how i can best use my limited number of sticks to get the most coverage and have to use game knowledge to figure out where they're going.

Marian Cross12/2/2018, 8:44:22 PM2 votes

agreed*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*

këÿ12/3/2018, 2:17:12 AM2 votes

yikes bronze player is criticizing the game.

Squire Angel12/3/2018, 5:57:02 AM2 votes

As a Smite Moba player. There are a small spell in the meta where a consumable item known as chalice of the oracles was available for 300 gold. Chalicss are items that refill every time you recall, and the chalice of the oracles was ward charges. This was cheap enough that you would have all 5 members of a team pick it up, essentially giving you 10 free wards for nothing. This was around for only two weeks, as it effectively ruined ganks in higher tier play, and made it nearly impossible to get an early lead with junglers (which crippled them hard, as assassins in smite are early/midgame powerspikes).

Vision is an extremely powerful tool that can be utilized by every role. If you give too much power, the game becomes infinitely too easy to know when to push or not. I'm not extremely into LoL, so there might not be an over abundance of wards, but vision is very much a powerful tool, so I can understand its limitation.

Vindexin12/3/2018, 2:02:57 AM2 votes

I think you have a valid point of there being fewer options when the intent was to have more options. Have you considered that removal of the sightstone may be improving players overall? Without so much early vision, the players now needs to be aware of where the jungler may actually be.

I'm personally guilty of not always looking at my map enough, and I won't speak for anyone else, but I have noticed my awareness improving as a result.

The support dynamic has changes with every season. It's very possible Riot has some ideas for this or something else to switch the gears of support this season.

Tl;Dr Be patient. It's a healthy virtue.

gekopirate12/3/2018, 10:47:59 AM1 votes

Honestly as a new player from last season I only briefly saw old items and didnt understand them that well anyway so can't fully comment.

As my mechanics arent great but my macro game is sound I find quite often that the support items are unbalanced, as lulu quite often i can force a 7-9 min item if I play aggressively and well however sometimes from losing it can take 15+ mins, i do think that spellthiefs needs a little 'from behind' rebalancing, coin almost always achieves form in less or equal time with little effort again brace is super easy to stack if your adc isnt a troll in lane. I guess the trade off is worse stats. However that's not even my real point.

Sight items have enabled my team to win so many games with clever and comprehensive vision of key map areas and personally I think enables supports to 'turn' a game from losing if circumstances allow it. I can be playing like trash but if i ward well i still feel relevant in a lot of games.

The new sup items could give better stats perhaps to let a better support carry a game more but from a pure macro point of view i really like the items and can see why they are as they are.

Zannabell12/3/2018, 3:02:20 AM1 votes

Honestly riot could care less about vision. To them, vision is to safe, it prevents people from dying which they don't want. They made it easier to clear wards and they dont last as long anymore. I guess it was just to to hard for jg or assassins to plan around common ward areas.

Baron NashButt12/3/2018, 5:25:03 AM1 votes

Some issues were also with champions like Lee sin, jax, and katarina at the time. Sightstone gave them a lot of power and flexibility to get away. Also by adding quests it extends laning phase.

meowwow712/3/2018, 1:09:20 AM1 votes

if they ever do add sightstone, and ruby ss I just hope they make the item cdr multiplicative instead of additive if item cdr is on it