Proposed Tryn ult mini-rework

Potato Doc·8/2/2018, 10:28:27 PM·13 votes·3,532 views

>Undying Rage:

Tryndamere's lust for battle becomes so strong that he is unable to die, no matter how wounded he becomes.

Tryndamere becomes completely immune to death for 5 seconds allowing him to drop under 0 hp and instantly gaining 50/75/100 Fury. While under 0 HP he gains 20/30/40% damage reduction . If he is under 0 hp at the end of the duration his bloodlust is automatically used to try and heal him beyond lethal damage. If unsuccessful Tryn dies. (Maybe the numbers could be higher, take these with a grain of salt and assume they could be higher or lower after testing)

>So why change his ult?

Well as we see from Kayle, Kindred, and Tryn its incredibly hard to balance any champion that gives invincibility. They are balls of stat check which we know Riot hates. With Kayle the duration is more acceptable due to its short duration rewarding good reaction speed and timing, meanwhile kindred has the downside of also being able to save enemies. While you do have to have good reaction times for Tryns ult, 5 seconds for no death means the tryn's enemy either needs CC to keep a distance (which is often negated through W and E, which is exaggerated with AP tryn) or Tryn isn't able to even think about being in lane.

>How does this make fights more engaging with tryn?

By allowing him to drop below 0 hp and die at the end of his ult, it keeps fights closer, that 5 seconds he gets is an equalizer instead of a complete stop. Its less reliant on having a DoT like ignite to fight him past level 6 to secure the kill, or be so far ahead he isn't able to breath near you. It also encourages Tryn to actually BE a barbarian when he ults and stand his ground, letting the rage be what keeps him alive and more punishing when just running away, while still keeping a clutch factor if tryn plays his cards right. It also begs the question, is tryn willing to die and go 1 for 1 or is it better to just farm it up and play safe till his late game powerspike. Also makes his build more interesting, does he prefer crit over lifesteal? Ap wont give him those massive heals with just a amp tome. Is it worth that early game risk?

> How would this interact with executes?

Executes like Urgot and Pyke wouldn't get their execute effect (so no AoE fear, and no reset/gold respectively) but would in fact absolutely prevent him from reviving at the end. Trade ult for ult. Tryn at this time still gets an extended duration to live but ultimately doomed, letting him act like a sion passive after the ults go through.

>Why the auto heal?

I feel it would be bad game design to force the player to have to Q at the very end, makes it more noob friendly while also acknowledging the higher risk factor with his ult.

>Why the damage reduction?

It keeps staying alive a reasonable factor for him, if the fight is close tryn gets pressured to try and stay within safety levels. It doesn't completely negate the enemies damage as it does now, allowing them to "omae wa mou shindeiru" tryn but it prevents feeling you will always die at the end of the ult.

>Why drop below 0?

If tryns enemy completely stomps him, tryn shouldn't feel rewarded for 5 seconds with extra time to escape or wait out help. At this point he either fights and dies, or just dies like a coward. It prevents hard stat checks and rewards an enemy who snowballs their lead against him. In a close match both tryn and his opponent die allowing the enemy to feel successful in his ordeals and not cheated out of his kill while tryn still sees his opportunity to change the tides and make the score even. (think of andross in Starfox 64). While tryn is ahead it still gives enemies a reasonable chance at killing him by throwing all their damage at him (if they pick him off) and walking away.

>But what about AP tryn

This does bring up a point that I do believe would also need to be addressed, maybe nerfing the total ap ratio his Q gets, or something along those lines so as to not pidgeon hole tryn into AP instead of AD which should be his preferred playstyle. I honestly dont know what riot intends to do about ap tryn. It would make AP tryn much more risky early game as he would be lacking a lot of the damage AD tryn would to try and equalize those kills before he got the massive heals.

>Other ideas that I thought of but ultimately didnt like.

Ult duration is 1.5 seconds able to be refreshed upon dealing damage to enemy champions and refresh counts up to 3 times totaling 6 seconds max. This one is okay but not a fan of giving him extra life time. It does fit the barbarian fighting style, but with CC heavy teams this would be too punishing as if he ults its an insta gib if he gets morg binded.

His ult acts like it does above but instead of damage reduction after 0 hp, he gets far less, 10/15/20 % but enabled for the duration of the ult. Problem with this is early game it doesn't do much for him and late game with lifesteal it might be too much. Also doesn't fit much with the barbarian playstyle he should be following with the whole closer to death/defying death buffs that are so common in games with barbarians and doesnt mesh well with having %reduction but also death defying not working together.

Edit: another option is giving him a basin of negative health he cannot go under, essentially x2 what his bloodfury would heal him that is reduced by AP down to a minimum of 1.25x his bloodfury heals

22 Comments

IM A BAD TRYN8/3/2018, 3:48:32 AM6 votes

NO! AS A TRYN MAIN SINCE SEASON 3 STOP IT! HE DOESN'T NEED A CHANGE. LEARN TO COUNTER HIM.....ITS REALLY EASY! JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT LIKE IT DOESNT MEAN HE NEEDS A REWORK! The skill of playing trynd comes from properly macro decision making. No other champion rely's on that more than trynd does. If you change his ult he will lose his own identity. He is a barbarian that only lives through rage now. Minimize his ult means he's not as angry anymore. Wouldn't make any sense. If anything he should be even more angry! Trynd item build is totally dependent on what items are buffed/nerfed. I've always enjoyed taking more crit and damage. No need to have more "variety". You can virtually build anything you want on him. It just depends on your playstyle. That is the beautiful thing about trynd. The way he is now. You can build him to your specific needs. Not meta items like so many other champions rely on. Please don't touch him at all.

DuskDaUmbreon8/2/2018, 11:20:47 PM5 votes

I...actually really like that idea. It essentially becomes a race against time to stay alive when you use it.

If you have the sustain/rage to make it out, it rewards that. I think that in particular will help disincentivize AP Trynd, because you'll want that lifesteal to try to make it back to positive.

Kinda reminds me of Kled's passive, where if you get dismounted you have a short period of time (in the fight) to go fully ham and maybe come out alive, or to properly die.

Or maybe, along those lines, he gets a kind of Death's Dance with his ult, maybe combined with some resistances, that way it's still possible to instapop him, or make him use it too late/too early.

AetherArising8/3/2018, 8:44:17 AM3 votes

The hordes of meta-sheep downvoting everyone who agrees and saying that current trynda is balanced make me feel a bit sad

Gl out there. I approve of this idea.

Lajinn58/3/2018, 12:06:17 AM2 votes

That would actually be a nice ability, it adds more interaction for the opponent while keeping the thematic of Tryn as an undying berserker. Also, as to Alex's comment, there's actually a Barbarian in 5e that does a similar thing, the Zealot from XGTE can keep going even after they would have died, though they die at the end provided no healing is provided.

Alex h87218/2/2018, 11:24:19 PM2 votes

Kinda like it, it reminds me of barbarians in D&D, where at least in past versions if they were raging they could go below 0 hp but if the rage ended they dropped.

The Highest Noon8/3/2018, 4:42:54 PM2 votes

Ok. I got un-lazy and read at least the idea you're proposing, and I like it. It's a good shift from the generic "He can't go under 1 health" idea that most games default to. Not only that but it gives people a fighting chance against him, not just "you can't do anything but run away or cc him."

Herlgar8/3/2018, 1:10:29 AM2 votes

It reminds me Oracle's ult from Dota, which basically prevents damage and healing for a duration, but accumulates them and deals them all at once at the end with amplified healing.

Pretty fitting for Trynd honestly, forces him to fight to stay alive instead of using it as a get out of jail card in any situation.

On another note, % missing health damage would destroy him

Pika Fox8/3/2018, 5:34:48 PM1 votes

While i like the idea, he would need numerous other changes to work.

Ultimately, trynd is a melee forced to build squishy. The downside to him having his ult is his kit literally forces him to build glass cannon, which is inherently the weakest type of champ in the game. All melee glass cannons get massive boons in their kit, such as yas passive and W, yi ult and passive, etc.

La Bello8/3/2018, 12:01:44 AM1 votes

how would true damage work with this?

Javi Is Here8/3/2018, 12:07:04 AM1 votes

allowing them to "omae wu mou shindeiru"

NANI?!?

The Highest Noon8/3/2018, 1:23:36 AM1 votes

That was a lot of reading so I gave up on it.

I think the best change to his Ult would be the addition of for "up to five seconds as long as he's in combat with an enemy champion for at least 2.5 seconds" or something.

SugeMinPikk8/3/2018, 4:44:02 PM1 votes

lol