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I think I've figured out how to fix Ekko, please take a look

Granzeboma··31 votes·2,329 views

This is a long-ish post, I'll put a TL;DR at the bottom

Yo guys, I'm an Ekko main, have been since the end of last year when I realized how fun he is to play. I play him AP mid rather than tank, and it's frustrating to see him become such a balance nightmare, and to see him constantly banned or picked for the abusive tank build. And, I'm gonna be honest here, I can't deny he's pretty annoying to play against even when built the intended way. As much fun as I have with him I can't say he doesn't have a fair few problems that need to be addressed, but I've been worried for a while now about the upcoming assassin rework. I can't shake the feeling that Ekko's numbers will be shuffled in such a way that he ends up as a more straight forward burst assassin rather than the hit-and-run cc assassin he's meant to be.

With that in mind, after staring at Ekko's wikia page for a long while, I think I've figured out a way to address almost all of the problems with Ekko with a single simple change, and it doesn't even involve changing any numbers. To start with, I tried to nail down exactly what Ekko's weaknesses are supposed to be to counterbalance his numerous strengths. The biggest and most obvious weaknesses Ekko _should _ have are as follows:

A) Lack of easily accessible 100-0 tier burst

and

B) His abilities have delays attached to them and require some manner forethought or setup to get the best out of them, or to get the bulk of his damage in

The issue with Ekko right now is the second point on that list isn't quite true. Ekko can get his combo in a little too reliably at all stages of the game. At first I put this down to his E, as it's targeted and allows him to effectively setup his other abilities, but I couldn't think of a way to change the reliability of his E without the rest of the kit falling apart somewhat. Then I realized, the E isn't the problem at all really, Ekko being in melee range in general is a nightmare for another reason, the E just lets him get there. The problem is actually something kinda subtle, a tiny modifier in one of his abilities that allows enables the "run someone down with permaslow" playstyle that makes tank Ekko such an ever-present issue, and makes his laning so nightmarish for any melee champion. Here's an excerpt from the description of Ekko's Q:

At maximum range or upon hitting an enemy champion, the device slows to a stop and expands

"upon hitting an enemy champion". This sounds like a small thing, but bear with me. Ekko's Q proccing the slow on contact with a champion is what lets him set up the rest of his combo so effortlessly; it's what lets him land both the return part of his Q and his passive in any given melee trade. A point blank guaranteed slow flies in the face of what Ekko is supposed to be, it lets him simply brute-force trades and gives him both the option to run down a target or effortlessly disengage, without having to plan the trade or position correctly or setup his abilities beforehand; in fact the opposite is true, the ease of this trade means Ekko can start setting up his other abilities **afterwards **by setting up stuns on already crippled victims, disengaging and running circles around a foe while waiting for cooldowns, or in the case of tank Ekko, simply wailing on somebody until they drop dead. As somebody who plays Ekko a whole lot, I can tell you that I abuse this combo in every melee lane, because there's just no beating it. At level 1 if an opponent moves forward to CS, Ekko can nail them with a point blank Q and use the ensuing slow to land both his passive and the return Q, guaranteeing the trade goes in his favor. From level 2 onwards Ekko can do this every time an enemy comes within range of his E. The guaranteed slow is what causes Ekko to be such a threat when played as a relentless bruiser, and it's also what makes him so frustratingly snowbally when built AP, because short of flashing the Q, there's almost no way to stop his damage happening.

I'm not gonna pretend Ekko couldn't use some number rebalancing, but I think if his Q were changed to always travel the maximum distance, it would solve a lot of the problems. Suddenly Ekko can't brute-force unwinnable trades, and he can't easily run-down enemies without at least a small amount of setup before the attempt happens. He has to play with distance a little more carefully, hitting opponents with the slow beforehand, or carefully positioning afterwards to land the return Q, rather than getting the best of both scenarios by virtue of simply getting into melee range and _then _ pressing buttons. Without some degree of setup melee opponents can sidestep the Q or simply walk away, and at later levels Ekko can't brute-force burst assassinations vs an opponent that has any kind of mobility. I've thought about this a bunch and can't really see a downside to making this change a reality, aside from Ekko potentially getting some more AOE damage out in a teamfight if a team lines up right, but that seems like a fair tradeoff for a significant hit to his reliability, particularly in the early game. While we're at it, it might also be worth upping the mana cost of his Q ever so slightly, so he can't effortlessly waveclear either.

What do you guys think?

TL;DR Ekko's Q should always travel the maximum distance rather than expanding on contact with a champ so that he can't force unwinnable trades at melee range

35 Comments

Gigahappytown13 votes

Ekko 1 shots in 1 rotation later in the game if you build him right with just.

W needs its base damage removed and his passive utility should scale off ap tank ekko should not exist.

THE RlVER KlNG3 votes

This. You're basically not allowed to get near AP Ekko because Q-E does 3/4's of your health.

MrryZ4 votes

if Q-E does 3/4's of your health you're either unbelievably squishy or someone realllllly fed that Ekko. either way he's an assassin, he's meant to be bursting just not as reliably as other assassins like zed who have more burst but less teamfight potential.

Granzeboma1 votes

It's not like you can't say the same with Fizz or Leblanc or Zed ect. At the very least with this Q change you wouldn't be slowed before the end of the combo so you can flash or dash away. Currently it's totally the case that if he gets close to a squishy they're probably gonna die if he has the items

KoKoboto5 votes

REMOVE THE SLOW ON HIS PASSIVE

MrryZ2 votes

He's a hit and run skirmisher, it fits nicely with his identity and is not the issue with him, it could probably do with some reductions, in fact most of his slows could as it's more technical to use the speed boost portion of his passive to achieve that and can be easier to balance around as it would require planning to actually ensure you hit your passive rather than just throwing a q and walking away.

KoKoboto1 votes

He already has a slow on his Q, and a potential 140% movement speed difference between you and another champion is insaneeee (bad math). It allows tank Ekko is thrive because it provides such a long duration of slow/utility onto the ENEMY. 60% slow for ~5 seconds while Ekko is running circles around you with 80%

MrryZ1 votes

Thats why I said he needed reductions.

KoKoboto1 votes

Yeah it's also an issue and needs to be removed.

MrryZ1 votes

Doesn't need removing, just adjusting. The change that OP proposed seemed quite viable to me and would be a good starting place for fixing his main issue of too much utility cc.

NineTailedMystic5 votes

Then remove the MS steal and just give him an MS boost.

MrryZ1 votes

If you remove all slows he simply becomes a normal assassin, albeit with lower damage. However much people hate it Ekko needs at least one slow to actually stay viable

NineTailedMystic1 votes

I was saying take the MS steal off his passive, not remove the Q/W slow.

MrryZ1 votes

And I'm assuming that we're taking ops suggestion into account resulting in him having a difficult to hit slow on his q and a negligible slow on his w. He does need some reliable slow.

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

Have you ever played Ekko? Q is the easiest thing to hit in the world, especially point blank after you E'd onto them.

MrryZ1 votes

If you're gonna patronise me at least do it on a solid basis.

And I'm assuming that we're taking ops suggestion into account

do you understand that or do you need me to spell it out for you.

And I'm assuming

This means that my hypothetical that follows will have something that it does not curently.

ops suggestion

The Original posts suggestion. You know the one where he suggested his q wouldn't expand and offer a slowing field until it reached it's max range thus making it MUCH HARDER TO HIT. or did you not read that post fully either?

Finally, yes I have played Ekko. Perhaps you could take 5 minutes to just look at that first and I wouldn't have had to write in this manner.

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

E-Q-auto would still lead to a 100% guaranteed 30-60% slow for 2-3 seconds, since they've been hit by the first part of the Q. And which direction do you run in when you're trying to get away from an Ekko? Forward, towards the slow zone. Plus, why does an assassin need 3 slows and a stun in the first place? That's something out of a tank wet dream, tbh.

MrryZ1 votes

Please you're making me desperate. READ THE POST. The slow won't activate on his q unless it's max range which can't just be procced at any time during a fight. That leaves him with an ms steal which could use adjusting and a slow which is almost never used on his w as it's favorable to use the stun. Finally, he doesn't need all the slows and almost no one will say otherwise, but he does need some form of cc to fulfil the utility assassin which he is meant to be. He's just a little overlaoded with the utility right now.

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

I did read the post lol and I liked it. All I'm saying is that his passive proc would still be very easy to apply with E-Q-auto.

And utility assassin is a flawed concept. Assassins are meant to be mobile, squishy damage dealers. They should NOT stun whole teams, have 3 slows, resets, and abuse practically every bruiser item in the game.

MrryZ1 votes

My bad then I thought you meant the first part of the q as in the slow.

Also utility assassins isn't a flawed concept, Ekko just has too much utility without sacrificing enough damage and thats the point in threads like these, to fix him. Also if your entire team is close enough to be encapsulated in an Ekko w altogether then they deserve to be stunned. the slows and abuse of bruiser items is his issue right now which is what a lot of people are complaining about and will be the focus of any changes to Ekko.

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

It's good.

That reasoning is soooo arrogant. Teams shouldn't have to fear an champion with assassin level damage and mobility stunning them because a champion like that shouldn't have it in the first place. Sure, youre bad it your team is clumped up and get stunned, but that doesn't mean Ekko should have it on top of his reset, 3 slows, double dash, shield, and movement speed bonus. "X champion being overloaded isn't unhealthy because YOU were the one who messed up!"

MrryZ1 votes

He doesn't have assassin level damage unless he's fed to the end of the earth, it just doesnt happen. Secondly it doesnt matter what champions are played your team should never huddle together in that close a vicinity except perhaps for rengar ulting you. Thirdly why shouldn't an assassin force you to change your playstyle? If a zed is in my game I'm gonna change and adapt my teamfight to protect the adc better because i know that he will focus them. There isn't anything arrogant about expecting people to adapt their playstyle. Finally I'm not saying Ekko is without issue, he IS overloaded and can punish too hard for such a small mistake but that isn't a ground to disregard his concept and ask for massive nerfs to his utility.

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

Of course I have to play around Ekko when he's on the enemy team. I just think assassins shouldn't have AoE stuns in the first place because it's a complete and utter betrayal of their theme and fantasy. Saying utility assassin is like saying tanky ADC, and look at the problems Graves has caused in the past.

Granzeboma1 votes

I think the idea can work so long as there are trade-offs elsewhere. The idea with Ekko is that he sacrifices reliability, and needs to set up his abilities and timing just right _before _ going in. Like I said I'm not gonna pretend he couldn't use a little bit of number re-balancing, but I think the hit to his Q reliability would be a pretty big deal for his consistency in blowing people up

ChaosThief4 votes

That was one thought I had about the Q, and it would work quite nicely.

Though the main issue currently is probably his W; it doesn't really fit in his whole "AP assassin" getup since it's only meant to give him extra time to stay in a fight.

This would be a nice start to helping him, but it won't really solve much else besides melee trades.

MrryZ2 votes

The W was intended as an engage tool, not something to extend a fight with.

ChaosThief1 votes

It can be used as both. Due to the unreliable nature of the stun in most cases though, you'll only get the shield in the majority of cases.

MrryZ1 votes

Realistically, only tank Ekko will use it to extend a fight, AP Ekko can't afford to stay close enough to hit a w and wouldn't need to anyway. Also it's unreliable because his main theme is to use planning and thinking ahead as to how a fight will play out to land his abilities, so where WILL his opponents be in 3 seconds. Right now tank ekko is mainly viable because he can stay in extended fights due to him being able to hit multiple W's which he can easily set up with a low cooldown q.

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

So what you're saying is make it so it doesn't act differently when it hits an enemy champion but instead only expands and slows after it has reached its maximum distance?

Kadavik1 votes

Ditto.

KoKoboto1 votes

That's actually a good suggestion, makes it so it isn't easy to pull off because often times, unless you have mobility. Dodging the second part of the Q is impossible. Especially when he blinks directly onto you and uses it point blank. Lamo I didn't read OP.

Photos of Ghosts2 votes

gewd thinkin

Mordepool1 votes

Clap* Clap*

MrryZ1 votes

Would definitely go a ways to fixing his issues right now and encourage thoughtful planned play which, to me, is the core thematic of Ekko's gameplay.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Sounds more balanced than what riot threw together. With a theme about time, he should be relying on timing his actions; instead of just telefragging anyone nearby, or being able to avoid whatever is remotely harmful at will.

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