Let's Discuss Some Balance and Matchmaking Changes; I Want a Healthy Game and I Know You Do Too

GØÐSLAYER·6/7/2018, 12:13:16 AM·3 votes·1,532 views

Wrote this as a comment on another thread but some thought it should be its own thread.

Let's start by talking about top lane. If you've been playing ranked at all, you'd know that Irelia and Camille are some of the most popular picks for top ATM and are regarded to be the two best champs for that role.

Irelia has been busted since her release and is pick/ban in higher elo (nearing 100% there). Meanwhile, she sits at a 30% ban rate across all ELOs according to lolking http://www.lolking.net/champions/irelia#/overview. Meanwhile for comparison, the current highest winrate toplaner, Wukong (according to champion.gg) sits at a mere 1.1 ban rate across all ELOs http://www.lolking.net/champions/monkeyking#/overview.

This is primarily due to her insane ability to come back after just 1 item: Trinity Force. You can make her go 0/4 in lane. It will not matter because after she gets this item, she will start being able to fight you and your team if you guys can't close out fast enough. This is due to her high damage reduction ability, large AOE ult, and % healing on Q.

Let's take a look at Camille. Insane mobility and range, significant damage on Q with significant damage reduction on passive shield. In a team comp consisting of Irelia and Camille, if you pick an immobile carry, you will be feasted on endlessly. Note: I don't play ADC or mid, but it really does suck when yours gets instapopped in a teamfight by one of the champs mentioned above.

Now you may argue that champions like Akali are similar in their ability to come back (Akali comes back after gunblade), but she is inherently less tanky than Irelia and Camille and her itemization is less tanky as well, so she can be shut down easier. Irelia with Triforce and Tabis is a force to be reckoned with mid-game, no matter what her score is. Similarly, Camille with Triforce and Tabis isn't that easy to stop either.

In bot lane, you have not only removal of crit on IE and ER and general item price increases with the price of BORK being lowered, but also insane power given to supports in terms of gold generation and damage. In many games, I have seen the caster support outdamage the ADC mid-game, solely due to the amount of gold revenue (items and components) that they earn for doing, essentially, nothing. With the introduction of new, cheaper AP items such as Twin Shadows and Shurelia's Reverie, caster supports are able to hit item powerspikes much sooner and are able to have much more influence around the map, even if they go even with the enemy support. They don't have to CS, just press a few buttons from time to time and help engage/disengage fights. If gold generation was significantly reduced for supports, I do think this role would be a little more balanced. Riot is taking a step in the right direction by nerfing shield users, but it is not enough.

Across all lanes, with the exception of mid for the most part, you also have the Resolve tree being a major issue. Sure, they nerfed Aftershock in terms of its cooldown and tweaked a few numbers, but face it: it gives 70-120 (based on level) bonus armor and MR for 2.5 seconds, then deals a shockwave that deals 10-120 (+3% max hp + 15% bonus ad + 10% AP magic damage) to enemies. This makes it especially overtuned for tank supports and tank junglers, such as Leona, Alistar, and Sejuani, who aren't really affected by the nerfs to its cooldown because they only really engage when they can proc it again. In the early levels (1-5), if they engage on you with CC, they are engaging with a Dead Man's + Spirit Visage worth of resistances. What the hell are you supposed to do against this when you're level 4 and cooling with 1 starter item and 1 component at max? The scaling on this rune is also disgusting when you consider that they just nerfed crit items and item powerspikes by increasing gold value for ADCs. They won't be able to reliably kill aftershock users until much much later in the game, and by this point, the game will most likely be over already.

In resolve, you also have Bone Plating, which gives you 15-40 damage reduction for 3 seconds, for 3 attacks after being damaged. Combined with Grasp or Aftershock, this makes trading in lane near pointless for you to the point where you are virtually forced to either use it or play a balls to the wall lane bully and try to pressure your opponent hard before you get ganked and try to stall them from their tank items as long as possible. This is even more of an issue for botlane, as it makes AA trading in the early levels virtually pointless if your opponent is using Fleet Footwork (which is also a major issue; either take out the MS boost or reduce the healing significantly for it to be balanced).

No other tree gives you as much early power as Resolve. The offensive trees are not on par with Resolve until deep midgame. For example, this can be seen with Grasp turning into the most recommended rune for Fiora, over Conqueror. You'd think with all the true damage she deals and how long she stays in combat for, Conqueror was intended for champions like her, right? While that may be the case, many have realized how stupidly overtuned Resolve is that the advantages given to a champion from this tree are far too good to pass up. Why fight your enemy using skill when you can heal for 1/8 of your HP by clicking on them once or gain 70-120 armor by CCing them one time? For comparison you need 3 attacks to proc Press the Attack, Electrocute, or Hail of Blades, but Grasp is on a 4 second cooldown and you only need 1 attack to proc it. Similarly, for aftershock you only need 1 CC to proc it. This makes it much much harder for a bruiser or fighter to undergo a sustained fight with a tank if they do not choose to run resolve primary or secondary. Riot has been trying to compensate for defense creep by adding damage to the game, but the solution is to tune those numbers down. Maybe make Aftershock only last for 2 seconds, while giving 50-80 MR + Armor based on level. Maybe decrease the amount of HP that grasp gives back to you. Don't add more bullshit damage to the game to try and compensate for Resolve being in the game. This only punishes champs who don't build resolve.

Resolve is the reason why every single match at MSI was basically Ornn vs. Gangplank. Minimal interaction, maximum resistances, maximum healing, insane tank scaling. Who genuinely wants to play like this in Solo Q? With the weakening of ADCs, who's gonna reliably kill resolve users in the mid and late game?

As an example, Match 1 between RNG and KZ at MSI 2018 had Sion vs. Irelia mid. RNG had a teamcomp of Ornn top, Skarner jg, Sion mid, Ezreal adc, Janna sup. KZ had a team of Fiora top, Sejuani jg, Irelia mid, Cait adc, and Braum sup. Guess what? The match lasted 32 minutes and the team with more tanks (RNG) won. Skarner, Ornn, and Sion were either all using Resolve or building tank or both. A similar pattern of tanks stalling LCS games is present if you take a look at the stats for the other games as well.

In addition to Resolve being overtuned and its frequent abusers being unfun to play against, among many other things, we have matchmaking being a mess as well, with new players starting placements being at 1300-1400 MMR instead of starting at Bronze 5 MMR (800-900) and climbing their way up. Doesn't it make more sense to expect people to WIN games to climb to their true elo than to lose? Let's say someone's true rank is Silver 4. Doesn't it make more sense for Riot to expect them to get there by starting at baseline Bronze 5 MMR and winning 3-4 games to get there, instead of losing 6 at a higher MMR?

Riot also needs to fix the ability for players to first time champs in ranked. Many other competitive arena games do this, so I don't really see why League can't too. Maybe make it so that a player needs mastery 3/4 on a champ before they can take them into ranked. This would encourage people to practice offroles in normals too, so that being autofilled doesn't turn the game into a complete shitshow like it currently does (yes, I'm looking at you jungle and support mains that get put into lanes and proceed to lose the game in 5 minutes).

These are just some of the prominent issues in the game right now. There are many, many more, but I really don't feel like explaining myself to someone who isn't gonna read this anyway and is probably just gonna read the first line and respond "LUL U THINK IRELIA IS OP AND CAMILLE XDDDDDDDDDD GIT GUD NOOOOB. SWAG IM 12 BTW.".

I will mention them, but not really go into depth: Snowball effect making most games over by 11-12 minutes with a significant lack of counter snowball (no increasing shutdown gold did not stop this), forcing players to play with an AFK until FF at 20, tremendous disparity in matchmaking skill levels, especially if you find yourself unlucky enough to be on a winstreak (this is when Riot will give you 4 bads and expect you to hardcarry). There's also a de facto mentality of "if YOU cant carry, YOU don't deserve to climb" which is totally toxic, antifun, and unhealthy for the game. I believe anyone who plays well with their team does deserve to climb. Someone shouldn't be prevented from climbing solely because they are unable to carry 4 50kg sandbags up a 5 mile mountain.

17 Comments

ModThe Djinn6/7/2018, 4:56:11 PM4 votes

{quoted}Let's start by talking about top lane.

If there's a greater argument here other than "some champions are out of line," I'm having trouble finding it. Irelia/Camille having issues could definitely be an issue, but that sort of balance change happens pretty frequently, and Riot is usually pretty good at dealing with it. In cases where it takes longer it may be because their data shows that the problem, which significant, is not awful, and it's worth waiting until they find the right fix rather than putting in a temporary patch they have to reverse later when a more appropriate fix comes down the pipeline.

If there's any single takeaway from this, it might be that perhaps the Trinity Force spike is too great on some champions, which implies that the item might be in need of adjustment, such as experimenting with making the damage bonus scale more based on level, from something like 80% base AD to 220% base AD over levels 1-18 instead of starting immediately at 200%. Would be an interesting experiment.

In bot lane, you have not only removal of crit on IE and ER and general item price increases with the price of BORK being lowered, but also insane power given to supports in terms of gold generation and damage. In many games, I have seen the caster support outdamage the ADC mid-game, solely due to the amount of gold revenue (items and components) that they earn for doing, essentially, nothing. With the introduction of new, cheaper AP items such as Twin Shadows and Shurelia's Reverie, caster supports are able to hit item powerspikes much sooner and are able to have much more influence around the map, even if they go even with the enemy support. They don't have to CS, just press a few buttons from time to time and help engage/disengage fights. If gold generation was significantly reduced for supports, I do think this role would be a little more balanced. Riot is taking a step in the right direction by nerfing shield users, but it is not enough.

Supports used to have significantly less gold (not sure when you started playing), and the role was considered to be incredibly unfun and unappealing to most people. The problem with denying supports gold or fun itemization is that these parts of League are really fun, and becoming stronger as you purchase items is a core part of the game's appeal. Stripping that from supports feels pretty shitty, and while I know bottom lane is in flux I think it's part of Riot's goals of making Marksmen a little less important in "protect the carry" comps, while the mage and support adjustments are aimed at opening up those roles to a greater range of champions. Both of those are something the community has been pretty vocal about wanting, so I think this is one that's going to be rough for a while, but will ultimately lead to a stronger, more flexible game (and make Support a role more people want to play).

Resolve is the reason why every single match at MSI was basically Ornn vs. Gangplank. Minimal interaction, maximum resistances, maximum healing, insane tank scaling. Who genuinely wants to play like this in Solo Q? With the weakening of ADCs, who's gonna reliably kill resolve users in the mid and late game?

I'm not sure this is the best data to go off of, because recent changes to IE, Last Whisper, and BoRK buffed have actually increased the potential anti-tank in the early-to-mid-game, and those changes just came through recently. I'd give it a little time to settle to see how this shakes up the Marksmen/Tank dynamic before we call this one, although it's definitely worth keeping an eye on.

Doesn't it make more sense to expect people to WIN games to climb to their true elo than to lose? Let's say someone's true rank is Silver 4. Doesn't it make more sense for Riot to expect them to get there by starting at baseline Bronze 5 MMR and winning 3-4 games to get there, instead of losing 6 at a higher MMR?

Not really -- if you start in the middle you place everyone faster and more reliably, whereas if you place everyone at Bronze 5 you get the people who should be in Platinum forced to claw their way up alongside the people who belong in Gold and the ones who belong in Master. Starting in the middle lets you use those 10 placement games better, as you don't waste 4 games figuring out someone is in at least Silver, and then have only 6 on the back-end to determine whether they're Gold or Platinum.

In short, every game you waste like that assuming someone needs to prove they're not Bronze 5 is a game you don't have later to determine their real skill, whereas starting at the mid-point means the distances in either direction is cut by 50%, and you get more accuracy out of the same number of games as a result.

Riot also needs to fix the ability for players to first time champs in ranked. Many other competitive arena games do this, so I don't really see why League can't too. Maybe make it so that a player needs mastery 3/4 on a champ before they can take them into ranked.

There are a few issues with this. Firstly, if I'm a ranked player and I want to be able to trade champions with a teammate, I need to be able to pick them -- which means I need to be able to play them. Secondly -- and I know this can be rough to hear -- but there isn't any rule that ranked is more serious. It just has a visible system attached to it. If I play solely ranked because I find it more fun, and I buy Pyke, I as a customer would be really unhappy if I can't play my purchase in my preferred game mode.

Finally, while this would have been possibly great if it started out that way, it's pretty unfair to players like me, who don't play super often but have had every champion for YEARS, far pre-dating Mastery. I don't even have Mastery 2-3 on a lot of champions, despite being fully able to play them, just because I swap champions around a lot. To say that I have to put in the time to get Mastery 3-4 on all my champions to have my full pool available in ranked is silly, because I'm an experienced enough player that I can pick up pretty much any champion that isn't exceptionally fiddly and do decently with them due to my similar game-knowledge and knowledge of who I'm up against.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku6/7/2018, 2:21:31 PM3 votes

Let's take a look at Camille. Insane mobility and range, significant damage on Q with significant damage reduction on passive shield. In a team comp consisting of Irelia and Camille, if you pick an immobile carry, you will be feasted on endlessly.

I play a champ with poor mobility (top), i strongly disagree with you.

Now you may argue that champions like Akali are similar in their ability to come back (Akali comes back after gunblade), but she is inherently less tanky than Irelia and Camille and her itemization is less tanky as well, so she can be shut down easier.

Don't know how you can complain about Camille & Irelia... but saying Akali is fine. She's the most unfair of theses 3, at least they're counterplay for Camille & Irelia.

No other tree gives you as much early power as Resolve. The offensive trees are not on par with Resolve until deep midgame.

yeah.

For example, this can be seen with Grasp turning into the most recommended rune for Fiora, over Conqueror. You'd think with all the true damage she deals and how long she stays in combat for, Conqueror was intended for champions like her, right?

hum... no. i wouldn't think of conqueror for somesh*t like her... She already had true damage in her base kit. His whole gameplay is around this. For me grasp or klepto are better.

Riot has been trying to compensate for defense creep by adding damage to the game, but the solution is to tune those numbers down.

I hate all these sh*t (fleet, grasp...)

ModThe Djinn6/7/2018, 3:10:29 PM2 votes

As someone who legitimately likes digging into discussions, this sort of thing is an anathema to it:

There are many, many more, but I really don't feel like explaining myself to someone who isn't gonna read this anyway and is probably just gonna read the first line and respond "LUL U THINK IRELIA IS OP AND CAMILLE XDDDDDDDDDD GIT GUD NOOOOB. SWAG IM 12 BTW.".

When you try to start a meaningful discussion and put down members of the community in the same statement, it sort of undermines my ability to take the desire to discuss in good faith. If you don't want to share your other thoughts immediately that's fine, but don't put down others if you value a legitimate conversation.

Hammermancer6/7/2018, 2:45:46 PM1 votes

I disagree with 100% of what you said