Am I the only one that still misses team builder?

Tiny Potatoes·1/31/2016, 9:02:21 PM·55 votes·2,689 views

When dynamic queue first came out, I tried really hard to keep an open mind about it. I wanted to like it, but weeks on I'm struggling to see anything that it does better than it's predecessors.

First off, it's slow. I know Riot's addressing this, but 30 seconds to declare your pick feels like a very long time for something that often has very little effect on team communication (We've all had lobbies where everyone declares, then just sits for 25 seconds without a word being said.) The fancy animations add seconds to the counter as well - the flashy map popup when you first find a group, to the champion portraits appearing and shattering during the ban phase all adds time to the experience. Finally, we have the issue of how hovering bans will now get you kicked from the lobby. While I understand this is a temporary problem, it's still a fundamental (and wholly unnecessary) change to the way picks and bans have always worked, and it's understandable that many players will take some time to adjust. All of this adds up to create a queue time that is 5-10 minutes long at best. Heck, in some scenarios, I've had to wait almost half an hour for a ranked game. An outlying number perhaps, but still incredibly frustrating.

My second issue is that it's actually less flexible than teambuilder. Say you and your friend want to make a wombo-combo team, so you pick Orianna and Malphite. Before, you could sit in teambuilder and wait for just the right champions to join your game to compliment that combo. Granted it might take a little longer, but if you wanted that perfect combo, you could get it. Now in dynamic queue, you could pick Ori and Malph, but if someone decides to pick Janna, Xin, or any other champ that ruins that combo of yours, there's nothing you can do to stop them.

Lastly, and this one's my main problem with dynamic queue: You're no longer guaranteed to get the role you want. You pick two roles you're happy to play, and granted, you're guaranteed to get one of those, but some champions can only be played in one role, or one lane. You wanna play Veigar? Too bad, mid's a highly contested pick, and since you have to pick another role as your second preference, looks like you're stuck playing ADC again. No longer can you sit down and say "I really want to play Nasus today", and spend the next three hours playing only that champion. Heck, you'll be lucky if you get your first role in half your games, unless you're playing ADC or support.

As I said, I want to like dynamic queue, but the fact that I've essentially been forced into it with the removal of teambuilder gives me a negative impression right off the bat. I also don't understand why it was implimented in the first place - I don't recall there being a great deal of complaints about the old system, why fix what isn't broken? Anyway, in order to make this a discussion, not a rant, I'd like to hear your opinions on the matter.

  • What do you feel dynamic queue does differently/better than all the queueing systems we had previously?
  • What do you feel are the system's shortfalls? Or, if you like the new system, how have you overcome it's flaws?
  • Do you think the removal of teambuilder was a necessary one, or do you think that and dynamic queue could have existed in harmony? (Teambuilder replacing blind pick, dynamic queue replacing draft, for example).
  • And lastly, do you think the implementation of dynamic queue was necessary?

32 Comments

Aeolian Melodies1/31/2016, 11:28:09 PM8 votes

I miss it and idk why blind pick didn't go instead.

Micanis1/31/2016, 10:59:39 PM6 votes

Yeah, I don't see how Dynamic Queue can be a replacement for Team Builder since they are completely different. It feels like Riot thinks it's a replacement because it also helps you get the role you want and compared to blind pick it does, but it does it poorly compared to Team Builder. Team Builder was a lot more than just a mode to ensure you get the role you want. It was team BUILDER. It let you build a team and you got to pick and choose each person that popped up and what roles you want where. In dynamic queue someone can lock in Soraka jungle and you can't do anything, but you could just kick her if you didn't want that in team builder. Or say you wanted to play Zed mid and didn't want to not have a mage, you could specifiy that you want a mage top. Dynamic queue is a good replacement for old draft, but it doesn't in any way replace team builder.

MeleeNuke2/1/2016, 2:55:23 AM5 votes

It's hard for Riot to understand how awesome teambuilder was. I really liked it. New Draft Pick just isn't the same, and it is super frustrating.

rikilamaru21/31/2016, 9:26:00 PM5 votes

i want team builder back

Doctor Dyment2/1/2016, 5:10:34 AM5 votes

I miss Team Builder and do think that the new dynamic que takes far too long, though I feel it isn't nearly as long as some say. However, knowing Riot, they will never re-implement Team Builder. Best treat it like a deceased relative. Treat it with fond memories and grief over the loss, but eventually learn to cope with the loss. Best possible course of action.

Forbidden Siren1/31/2016, 11:00:11 PM5 votes

I miss it too.

Incognonymous1/31/2016, 9:25:10 PM4 votes

Teambuilder had some garbage matchmaking, but it was worth putting up for to get your role. And I know queue times were a problem, but so long as you landed a lobby with a support it's easily faster than any dynamic queue I've been in.

Ñapoleoni1/31/2016, 9:23:29 PM3 votes

Been waiting for a que for around 23 minutes at the time of this post.

NintenMoney1/31/2016, 9:45:30 PM3 votes

I share a lot of your opinions as well. Personally, I think Team Builder as a whole was way more suited to people playing alone or with a friend, but the nice thing about it is that it transitioned well into larger groups (say 4 or 5), so it worked both ways. The new Dynamic Queue is great for premade groups of 5, but I don't feel like it is as "friendly" to individual players without a premade group.

I think if Riot offered an option to do all of the selection ahead of time for Dynamic Queue (like how team builder was - pick your champ, play settings, summoner spells, etc, before queueing) for solo players, people wouldn't feel like there's a huge empty space left by Team Builder's departure that has yet to be filled. Or, in all honesty, just having the ability to pick one role you want to play instead of two would be nice. Granted, I don't mind picking two, but as you mentioned, sometimes you just want to play a specific champ in a specific role.

Thanks for promoting healthy discussion on the boards!

Stratavotis2/1/2016, 7:55:31 AM3 votes

I like them both for different reasons. teambuilder let you work on dedicated champion mastery, and adjusted game match up to help you with learning champions against actual players but... dynamic que is a great precursor to ranked.

déluxe2/1/2016, 5:30:54 AM2 votes

Man I miss Team Builder so much. item 3070

Knoyle2/1/2016, 5:57:48 AM2 votes

This is one of the main reason I'm not playing League anymore. At least not for a while. Why did they have to remove anything? They could have added the queue and maybe even improved on Team builder a little. But, nah, this game has lost the little fun it offered me with the removal of Team Builder and some other things.

Alphadef2/1/2016, 7:00:22 AM2 votes

Lots of people miss teambuilder. Riot just doesn't give a fuck.

Beardyface862/1/2016, 6:06:28 PM2 votes

I like both. TB can be the standard for blind. Dynamic can stay for ranked and draft.

SyteamError4042/1/2016, 6:18:35 PM2 votes

I still very much miss team builder. I recall someone from Riot (in the announcement that Dynamic Queue is live) that, and I'm paraphrasing a bit, they wanted to do things that a large swathe of players would want which is why Dynamic queue was conceptualized and implemented. What I don't understand is, we have a large swathe of players who used and preferred Team Builder over this new Dynamic Queue system. So where's the support for that? Or is that simply being swept under the rug?

To me Dynamic Queue is a very poor replacement for Team Builder - I enjoyed every aspect that Team Builder supplied and I'm missing quite a bit of those aspects in the new system. It takes so much more just to get into a game now, and quite often it's in a role that I don't care to play but hey....I either play that role or I don't play at all. Is that REALLY what Riot intended? It must be, I don't see that being addressed when I look at the tweaks and changes they're going to implement in the coming weeks for Dynamic Queue.

Long story short, I think there is a place for Dynamic Queue...But there's also very much a place according to a 'large swathe' of League players for Team Builder...And here's a crazy thought. Maybe we can have both game modes.

vinyl scratch8081/31/2016, 11:40:02 PM2 votes

i think for at least draft and rank the dynamic queue works. it allows it so people dont have to fight over what lane they are going to play for the most part. but it is no team builder thats for sure. for people who pretty much only played team builder the new queue doesnt cut it. im the type of player that before i start a game i know what character and lane i want to play before hand. first there is the issue of the 50/50 chance of getting the role that i want to play, second if i get the role that i want to play i have to hope that my character isnt banned from the other team or even my team (thanks a lot team...), then after that i have to hope that the other team doesnt pick the character i am going to play.

the time it takes to get into a game with the new system is just ridiculous. first the afk checks, its not terrible but its annoying as hell. then once you are in ban/champ selection face palm maybe if people did take all the time in the world to ban/pick. seriously why do people think its smart to hover over a champ for the duration of their time then switch at the last second, at the end of the day every knows who you are going to play. then there are the people who dont lock in so its back to afk check. teambuilder might not have been the shortest wait time in the world but i was able to get other things done in the time it took to get into a game. with the new queue i have to be present at all time for the 2-3 checks otherwise im kicked and we are punished because we might not have been paying attention which is some bull if you ask me, human error is a thing.

i defiantly dont think that the removal of teambuilder was a necessary one. as riot is always happy to say, "we have one of the highest player bases in the world," there was no need to get rid of teambuilder. you dont see other popular games getting rid of popular game modes in their games. i think each of the game modes had their ups and downs but team builder was a really popular one. i think the new queue inst necessary but i think it makes the players who play ranked and draft happy but it doesnt fill the void where teambuilder was.

Archeanthus2/1/2016, 8:04:11 AM2 votes

I stand firm with you my friend.

warmcorntortilla2/1/2016, 9:09:42 AM2 votes

The only redeeming feature is that in ranked you get your position more often. The extra time gives you, in theory, an opportunity to discuss strategy. I understand why dynamic queue is good in ranked, I LIKE it in ranked

What I hate is losing team builder. I don't want the stress of having to pick/ban and get counterpicked, I just want to play x champion to the best of my ability in the lane I want

or I want to play dumb stuff like Voli/Soraka bot with the informed consent of my teammates.

Stars Shaper2/1/2016, 9:16:25 AM2 votes

I really don't like how you don't have a way to escape troll situations without incurring into the dodge penalty. Team Builder might have had long waiting time but at least you could see things like Lissandra Jungle, Nidalee ADC and Teemo mid tank and tell "Hell no, I'm not staying a second more".

Molten12/1/2016, 2:07:21 PM2 votes

i miss teambuilder too. to the point where i want to quit playing altogether until it comes back :(

Very Epic Guy2/1/2016, 2:42:43 PM2 votes

I really do miss it too... People were always friendly, you could usually play someone off-meta without much rage, it was great.

Enchanté2/1/2016, 3:57:48 PM2 votes

Team builder > the new champ select right now

Albedo Tabula2/1/2016, 4:06:28 PM2 votes

I kind of like dynamic queue but it doesn't even compare to team builder for me personally. I don't see why both can't be in the game. Dynamic queue replaced draft there's still a place for team builder imo.

My friend I almost always play League with refused to do anything but ARAM until team builder came out, and he quickly seems like he may go back to that now without it. Without him to queue up with I don't see myself playing near as much either.

mogonk2/1/2016, 4:11:13 PM2 votes

My main issue is that I used TB to practice specific champions, and in DQ I am NOT guaranteed to get that champ, which makes me feel like I'm wasting my time or being forced to dodge.

Swerzz2/2/2016, 4:23:04 AM1 votes

New Champ Select > Team Builder > Blind Pick

Sightless662/1/2016, 2:27:35 PM1 votes

I don't recall there being a great deal of complaints about the old system, why fix what isn't broken?

There were many complaints about aspects of the old draft system, even if they weren't necessarily aimed at the old system itself. "I never get my main role in ranked", "Why can only first pick ban?", "I hate being forced into support", etc. All those problems were inherent to the old draft system and got better when the new draft system was implemented.

What do you feel dynamic queue does differently/better than all the queueing systems we had previously?

Compared to the old ranked draft, I consider it superior in most every major function. It is easier to coordinate with teammates, it is less likely to dick someone into a role they hate, etc. It's not even significantly slower in my experience because of how quickly people tend to lock in their picks. It's just a better version of the draft pick in most ways.

Do you think the removal of teambuilder was a necessary one,

Nope.

And lastly, do you think the implementation of dynamic queue was necessary?

Replacing the old draft system was majorly beneficial. That's as close to being necessary as videogames get. The removal of teambuilder was not necessary, but that's a separate problem.

DeathBurst2/1/2016, 5:26:25 PM1 votes

Compared to old Draft, it's infinitely better.

  • Automatically assigned positions is just a god send. This by itself completely justifies the new Champ Select. Other points are a nice bonus, but this is the main argument.
  • Distributed bans avoid all this drama about "OMG, noob bans, GG lose". You can ban one champ you know you cannot beat for your lane, or you can chat with team-mates and try to ban OP stuff for the team. But nobody will flame you for just one selfish ban.
  • Pick intent (if they are used, it's actually my main complaint at the moment, some people don't use them) allow to detect early full-AD or 0-frontline comps early and chat and correct it.
  • Pick intent slow the process a bit, but forcing to lock-in quickens the process a lot. If you all displayed your pick intents, when the time comes to actually pick, it's often 2 or 3 sec per champ. I'd say it's actually faster than the old system, overall.
  • I just have my anecdotal experience, but queue times are also faster than old Draft Queue, for me. FYI, I pick mid/top when going solo, and I have a regular duo partner with who I pick Top/Jung, and he picks Mid/Jung, and overall my queue times are below 20 sec.

Now, compared to Team Builder, I would admit that there was a few things possible in Team Builder that are not possible anymore in the new Champ Select, but let's be honest, waiting for that perfect wombo-combo team in Team Builder, it took dozens of minutes. And Team Builder was some kind of Blind Pick, with all the drawbacks associated (pure luck on counter-picks in lane, no possibility to ban the objectively OP stuff at the moment, etc.). I can understand the nostalgia about Team Builder, but there are so many good points about the new champ select that I cannot really regret the old Team Builder.