Needlessly complex Ryze rework is needlessly complex

The5lacker·4/9/2015, 8:16:57 PM·9 votes·1,644 views

Riot, you've mistaken "complexity" for "depth" again. I know you like to have "a bunch of levers to tweak" when it comes to champion balance, but that also creates that many more areas for things to go horribly wrong, and that much more information to sort to to figure out what even needs to be fixed.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Adding more features is the wrong way to go about balancing things AND making them more interesting. Making Ryze's passive require stacks, grant shields, and reduce cooldowns is just going to make his laning phase more confusing and it won't actively make him more interesting to play. Granting Ryze 30% free CDR is ludicrous, because shockingly enough, that limits gold efficiency in build options because a lot of what Ryze might want has CDR stapled to it. A bunch of limited single bounces and even more limited stacking MR Shred doesn't make for an interesting ability. And most importantly, none of the changes are going to fix any of the problems people have with Ryze. He's still going to be the tanky, spellvamping spam mage with strong targeted CC and MR shredding making him strong against tanks and squishy targets alike. Only now occassionally he'll be able to pretend he's in Urf where he can chain-snare you for six seconds while you're wondering where all of your MR went and why Ryze is healing faster than the ADCs shredding minion waves.

Riot, please, whoever on your team is always demanding more complex abilities needs a time out. They're hurting your game by making it impenetrable to new players and even harder to balance than it already is. Just...watch this. Extra Credits used to talk about League a lot, holding it up as a strong example of not only Free to Play done right, but game with a solid design philosophy behind it. I don't think I've heard them mention you guys more than once in the past two years. Something is going wrong and you need to fix it before it's too late.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVL4st0blGU

20 Comments

Stars Shaper4/9/2015, 8:42:16 PM4 votes

1 skillshot

Ryze is too complicated

Xerath has 6

Sirsir4/9/2015, 8:36:46 PM4 votes

Its not really complex. They upgraded the passive, reduced his overall damage and gave him more penetration.

Meep Man4/9/2015, 8:36:09 PM3 votes

The passive isn't too confusing. Cast 5 spells, get a shield that reduces your cool downs. His Q was just changed into a skillshot and his E was changed to be more into his play style of destroy that target. Look, the new Ryze I can see isnt going to be complex. You can still point in the direction of your target and destroy them, its just now you have to wait till you get that pretty blue shield. Then faceroll.

Also, Im pretty sure they will tweak his ultimate passive to give 20% at Level 3. Also also, a reminder this is on the PBE. They can tweak a lot of things to help with the rework.

Erockandroll4/9/2015, 9:00:57 PM3 votes

uh, did we forget how binary his kit actually is? Riot needs to add complexity in order to give his kit a less binary feel while not hurting his primary role as a spell slinger. As for the new player experience, I would argue that the fine intrecesiers are not need to know to pick him up right away. Making him an "Easy to use, hard to master."

The only fear I have is that he might get the gnar treatment. They compared his passive window to Gnars window of strength, and I fear that if might get nerfed later to the point where the passive uptime is unnoticeable.

He might not have the same item build anymore, even if they build him the same way. (tanky AP/mana Bruiser.) Frozen Heart does seem less necessary with the CDR on his ult. Another tanky option might be Righteous glory, which would give him 300 mana, a lot of health and a good initiation active. Another possibility might be luden's echo, though he does not scale as well with AP, the passive would be good with his spell singing abilities.

Rebonack4/9/2015, 9:10:28 PM3 votes

I would argue the new version of Ryze is less complex than the old one.

Previously you needed to juggle a Q between each spell and your spell order could have a pretty major impact on how much damage you did with your overall combo (sooner you E someone the better). Ryze had to make trade-offs with how he used his spell (can I safely Q-W-Q this guy, or do I need to lead with W to root him first?)

Now Ryze just has to smash his face against the keyboard until he hits 5 stacks and then does it again. Spell order doesn't particularly matter due to how his Innate works now. Making his Q a skillshot really doesn't make him more complex, it just provides mobile champions with another leg up over someone else.

killd0zer4/10/2015, 2:40:50 AM3 votes

Linking Extra Credits is a pretty good way to show you don't understand game design.

AMYS GRAVE4/9/2015, 8:29:59 PM3 votes

Yeah, they are making even the simple champions complex and hurting their already rough new player experience.

Deep Terror Nami4/9/2015, 8:31:28 PM3 votes

It doesn't look like his gameplay is really going to change at all... this rework is pretty mild.

The Blue Rooster4/10/2015, 2:49:25 AM1 votes

Downvote me all you want, but he has a point. A large portion of Ryze players, are new players playing a mage for the first time. I know he was my first mage, and he really helped ease me into using quickcast, and the general mechanics of mages.

However new Ryze, while still maintaining his noob friendly price is no longer noob friendly, that passive alone will scare people away. He and Veigar both used to be champs that you'd always see while levelling because they were easy to wrap your head around and weren't skill intensive champs, but they're taking that away as if they don't have trouble enough retaining new players to level 30 already.