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Bard - A simple change to make him Viable

Apollocliptic·3/26/2015, 5:09:00 PM·2 votes·3,827 views

I think the idea of Bard is really cool, but in application he is SOOO limited.

Let's be real, he lacks the stats to tank, he has virtually no AP scaling so he can't backline mage either. His CC is the most difficult in the game to land, and is useless if the enemy adc charges you or your ally solo, making him limited even in a 2 v 1 situation.

Honestly, if you gave him more damage, he would quickly become an overpowered ganker for other lanes, but if you made him tanky, his combat potential would be too high, especially since he is MEANT to be a roaming support.

So here is what would complete him in my opinion:

His shrines should have a "root" mechanic The root should scale over time like the heal does (0.1 to 1 second)

How would this help? Simple

If he uses it in a 2 v 2 fight it comes off so fast that it barely makes a difference. but if he accidentally hits the enemy while trying to heal an ally, it still has some minimal benefit to the fight instead of a complete fail

But here is how it really becomes useful.

By laying shrines under the turret, while he is roaming, the enemy has to think carefully before diving. If they dare to and leave the shrine, the speed boost and heal can turn it around, but if they just walk on it to cancel it, they are making themselves vulnerable under the turret, especially if the adc has cc as well (like Jynx or vayne).

Stopping those dives, or making them harder (as they have to wait for the adc to use up the heals) gives Bard some more freedom to roam and make it back before his adc is destroyed.

The shrine can also be put in the middle of the lane, and the opposing players have to consider stepping on it and opening up a chance for the Bards adc to engage, or leaving it and engaging while the spell is on cooldown.

If the spell grants vision when an enemy invades it, it can also be used to check brush, or give Bard a warning when roaming when an enemy is on his tracks. Leaving one in the river can give junglers a nice gank, or stop enemy junglers as they carefully move around the shrines to maintain the element of surprise.

I think think this would make Bard so much more applicable. When I play as him, I tend to go to other lanes and drop heals behind their turrets, imagine an enemy Zed that can't ulti dive without getting caught on a shrine, same goes for champs like Lee and pantheon that don't think twice before jumping into a turret.

Please, share your opinions on this, do you think it would be enough? does Bard need a LOT more help, or do you think he's strong enough for the players that know how to utilise him (as a teamplay champ he is strong, but your allies need to respond to your plays).

Smaller changes that could help get Bard up to speed:

  • he should get gold for collecting to help balance out that he would otherwise be behind for leaving lane too often (only a small amount, like 1 - 3)

  • His magical journey should have a passive to promote levelling it more in early game in response to games. I suggest a passive movement speed buff, or maybe more fair would be that it increases the spawn rate of chimes (or the gold he gets from collecting them) Increasing Meep spawn rate might be a good idea too, but that might become unbalanced

  • slightly increase the collision range of his Q, it is already a difficult enough move to land, give him some love by making it a cone instead of a arrow, or just make it a little wider if a cone would be too strong. (As a cone it opens up the possibility of hitting multiple targets as he levels it up)

These improvements would mean that Bard could focus on levelling e and w first and q last for passive early games but strong laning and late game. Levelling up q and w first would allow for more aggression in early game against counter picks ( hitting a maximum of 4 targets means stopping those big ganks from mid and jungle with a single well placed spell) and a hope at escaping with well placed shrines

But most importantly, Bard wouldn't lose his weakness against engaging champs like leona, or burst champs like Draven, it would just help him do what he was already designed to do, without become useless in teams that don't have an IDEAL team composition

22 Comments

Truly Prideful3/26/2015, 6:36:43 PM2 votes

I have to disagree. I've felt like all Bard honestly needs is more base movespeed and possibly having the chime effects ramp up a little more quickly. I don't think he's limited at all, his kit is full of playmaking potential. His only 'issue' is that his team needs to understand how to utilize their friendly Bard.

Daedalus8713/27/2015, 1:36:42 AM1 votes

I don't think his shrines should root, as it takes away most options against them. Right now the choice is "Do I get out of position to deny the heal?" and that is a difficult choice if you're not ahead as you're opened up to all sorts of bad things. If you add the root on, it means that the medpacks will rarely get destroyed as being rooted out of position would not be worth denying the heal.

Kitten of Evil3/27/2015, 2:48:57 AM1 votes

He needs just one thing -- faster passive scaling. The chimes spawn so slowly that you literally cannot get his whole 145 passive chimes until 61 minutes into the game. Hell, you can't even get a 4th meep until 40 minutes into the game... that assumes you don't miss a single one, and few games last an hour.

IForgot2buyBoots3/27/2015, 7:42:39 AM1 votes

Actually, here's an interesting idea: Nature's Retaliation: When a shrine has reached its full potential, the spirits of nature become angry when that shrine is desecrated by a foe. A vengeful meep joins Bard if a full growth shrine is desecrated; this meep does not count towards Bard's maximum number of meeps, but vengeful meeps are impatient and strike first before ordinary meeps get their turn.

Would encourage enemy teams to decide when they wanted to get rid of that shrine, early, when it could be a little risky, or later, when it could give Bard a power boost at a rough time for them.

Apollocliptic3/27/2015, 10:36:02 AM1 votes

I still feel the Root concept could really work, but it would make him stronger against diving type champs (that jump under the turret, get the kill against the two squishy targets with minimal cc, and then walk away unscathed) since they couldn't afford to turret dive while he is away roaming, until the adc is forced to take the shrine. The idea was to improve his ability to leave a lane, and come back without the enemy getting too far ahead.

Another idea might be if the shrines (at full charge) provide an aura. Increased mana regen for example. This would make destroying them a priority and force opponents to take them more seriously as a threat, even if they don't provide CC.

If the shrines granted vision, it would make Bard an even cooler roaming support, as in addition to his normal 3 wards, maybe one pink ward, he could drop 3 smart shrines to increase vision across the map, which would enhance his utility as a roaming support.

I just think his Ultimate is fine how it is, and his E is such a powerful ganking tool, that if communication is good, Bard could set up some powerful ganks mid lane, use his ultimate to support top lane and get back to bot to top up his shrines. But creating opportunities to leave the lane is what's hard, so there is one more thing I could suggest that might be too powerful, but would really make the shrines more valuable in the lane (and not hidden behind the turret where the adc would have to hide while waiting for Bard to come back)

A: The shrines have a speed boost aura when moving towards them (subtle, but it means placing them further into the lane lets the adc farm better and have a way to retreat better, especially if they lack mobility)

B: At full charge, they have a "reverse lantern" affect. Right click them to perform a limited range mini-dash. Something like Tarics stun in range, it would just give the adc a good chance to escape a skillshot or get back to turret a little faster, especially combined with the usual walk over speed boost. And again, it would put focus on destroying the shrines before they become a threat, and often forcing the adc to use them prematurely.

ForPortal3/27/2015, 10:49:32 AM1 votes

What if the Shrines did a weak AoE heal when they pop? I.e. If you have three and cast a fourth, or if an enemy walks on one, it gives a 20% heal to any allies in the vicinity.

SpaceToad3/27/2015, 1:58:26 PM1 votes

From my other post. To make him balanced:

  1. Instead of powering up attacks on every 5 chimes, make it power up on every 4
  2. Increase auto attack range to 525
  3. Increase movement speed up to 335
  4. Reduce mana cost on caretaker's shrine(heals) by 20, and up the heal by 25

Done!

BottleCapster3/26/2015, 6:25:30 PM1 votes

While i support giving Bard more flexibilty in 1v1 fights, The instant root would inadvertantly make his Q super strong. Why take the time to line up that Q if you can guarantee it by rooting them first? Someone recommended making E a skillshot with some form of damage or CC on it if it hits an enemy instead of a wall, and i'm a bit more prone to that one as it makes a good trade off for a pretty long cd skll that has little application in lane. That said they need to be careful how they Tune bard, cause tbh he's actually pretty strong as is.

Apollocliptic3/27/2015, 5:43:40 PM1 votes

This post is getting some attention, so I'd like to make one quick point: "When is Bard good, as he is"

If you team him up with Vayne, Cait or Jynx, Bard is extremely powerful If you're mid laner has a nuke (Orianna, ziggs, Galio) omg Galio, and/or if you're jungler nukes (Pantheon, Fiddle, amumu)

bard's slow and speed boosting heal (without stuns and full power heal) give champs like vayne the perfect set up to lock an enemy on a wall. Bait them with a shrine in the brush, if they kill it, vayne rolls and stuns them against the wall, bard lands his stun, continue to slow them until vayne is finished. they will die before they get a chance to run.

Use ulti just before fiddle or Galio, Pantheon or Orianna use their ultimates. Orianna has a nice ultimate but she often has to put it on an ally and have them dive because her q is slow. If Bard stuns them she can get the perfect group ulti from it. Galio doesn't even have to wait for the stasis to end, he can use ulti as soon as he's in position, no flash needed, and when the stasis ends, they are trapped, no need for delicate timing and no chance to cc out of it. The same goes on and on, layering bards slows with adc's with root, allows hit to land stuns on top of that, and great mobility to stop them escaping (and this is without ulti, he can save that to roam to another lane and set them up with an easy kill too, assuming they have a matching champ.

Don't first pick bard, because it is unlikely your team will build around you, but if you're last pick and the champs line up, he can make a strong team unstoppable, he's the type of champ that once his team gets a lead, taking it back becomes very hard (like blitz) there is little the enemy can do but be really aggressive during his cd's