Boards›Gameplay

Sejuani's "Stay in the Fight" Buffs

Gaminon·12/14/2014, 7:31:34 PM·27 votes·4,829 views

So I play Sejuani a fair amount, and I can't say I'm overly thrilled by the new changes. Riot said that the changes were in order to give her incentive to stay in the fight, but her W already provided that incentive, since it was a large part of her damage and it was a 4 second DoT. What's more, with 40% CDR, you could actually cast your W pretty much as soon as the DoT finished. Combined with an Iceborn and a Sunfire, you were dealing some serious sustained damage.

It looks like Riot was trying to switch a lot of Sej's sustained damage to permafrost, which would be great if there wasn't the delay on reapplying frost. As it stands, though, Having a 3.6 second CD on won't do you much good.

Permafrost has a 1.5 second duration and then targets have immunity to frost for 3 seconds. That means 4.5 seconds minimum. Probably more like 5 or 6 when you figure in having to actually reapply frost and then cast permafrost. So unless Riot is trying to tell a tank not to build CDR, that doesn't make much sense. And they nerfed the slow duration, so really a net nerf on her CC in fights. With old Sej's 2.5 second slow, the CD with max CDR was 6.6 seconds, which worked out nicely with the frost reapplication CD and provided a strong CC presence.

Riot, any explanation on these changes? I'm failing to see the buffs here... am I missing something?

55 Comments

Gaminon12/14/2014, 9:16:51 PM20 votes

Turns out they changed permafrost so that there's no cooldown on the reapplication of frost. They just didn't mention it.

False alarm.

Quepha12/14/2014, 7:45:42 PM8 votes

her w was almost none of her damage before. she leveled it last and it dealt almost nothing

Rinky Dinky12/15/2014, 12:34:55 AM5 votes

I find these changes to be a massive buff. I have a reason to pick Sejuani now.

wilmer00712/14/2014, 11:57:02 PM3 votes

Old Sejuani was fine but new Sej is even better and here's why:

I would max W then Q and finally E. This allowed me to deal a ton of damage but like riot says this would limit my ability or incentive to stay in a fight because her cooldowns were rather medium to long and her abilities scaled with HP.

now new sejuani scales on AP so instead of getting just health items she can also do more damage with AP items.

hell new sejuani went 22/2/16 with just tank items and the magus and liandry's.

Old sejuani use to go OOM because if she was maxing Q second she would eventually go oom. New Sejuani never goes oom now because she has to max E second.

the fact that she now deals damage with E and her abilities scale on AP make her much better now. And with a shorter cooldown on her E she is one of the best jungler's now. even though she was already good before her changes but now she is even better.

Raptamei12/15/2014, 11:27:20 AM3 votes

She was fine before the rework.

She was reworked because people couldn't figure out how to apply frost (= dumbing down).

She was then nerfed.

She was then nerfed again.

The jungle now requires sustain.

Now she is useless, thanks Riot.

I Main Swain12/15/2014, 12:18:26 AM2 votes

first off, can we please make her abilities have her be stronger as a tank than an ap bruiser (or at least as strong)? I mean, really, she has 1 ability with health scaling damage, and no real tank passive (don't tell me it gives her armor, its a pathetic amount and the passive doesn't really synergize with her kit or her character). imo one of her abilities should give her a shield upon landing it

Greedalox12/14/2014, 8:57:52 PM2 votes

I know you're talking tank Sej, but on an AP Sej note, I've been having a lot of success with the changes. I wasn't expecting it and was dreading the changes quite a bit, but it's been quite good! The W damage can be really insane with a lich bane, some magic.pen and AP. Does wonders.

Knight Devout12/15/2014, 10:42:30 AM2 votes

I'm 50% with you here: What I agree with. the 3 seconds immunity to frost had sense back when permafrost slowed for 2.5 seconds. Now that is an ability supposed to be used twice or more in teamfights, it's counterintuitive to wait two times the slow duration to reapply the slow.

#A good immunity duration would be 2 seconds [down from 3], because it compliments her Permafrost cooldown at rank5/40% Cooldown Reduction. 1.5 seconds slow+2 seconds immunity =3.5 seconds. You even have a little time to apply frost before your abilities come off cd (if you haven't maxed E or still haven't reached 40% CDR).

What I don't agree with People overly praise Sunfire cape:it is "strong" , but you spend 2500 gold for a 80% stat efficient item while randuin and frozen heart are more stat efficient, and their passive more valuable for teamfights. I get enough health from Juggernaut, Righteous Glory and , eventually, a Warmog armor, which in turn increase the magic damage of W to 150-200 dps. Should I consider sarcrificing gold efficiency for more damage, or get more slows that let me stick more to the damage i already do?

el immagrente12/15/2014, 9:31:06 PM1 votes

Since there's a Sejuani conversation going down here, I figure I'll ask some questions since I plan on getting her for the Poro Rider skin. First of all, Is she difficult to learn? Second, What skill order do you take in the jungle? I've done the maths on her skills, and Flail is the starting skill, followed by I assume Permafrost then Arctic Assault. Third, what runes should I take? I've seen a few people mention AS marks for her passive, but to me that doesn't make any sense because her passive stacks time, not power. Fourth, what should I go for in the mastery tree? I'm guessing you spec furthest into the defence tree. Finally, is she fun?

ScalyManChard12/16/2014, 3:26:49 PM1 votes

Been playing Sejuani a bit lately. She seems incredibly strong now.

She feels a little weak pre-6 but after then has good ganks, is incredible in teamfights and has great clear speed. Pre-6 she still provides plenty of CC and damage for ganks but can't guarantee them as well as some other junglers.

Max W then E. Upgrade to item 3713 first. Then buy item 1026 or item 3136 . Core items are item 3151 and then either item 3110 or item 3116 depending on team needs (More cc? Fed ADC? More health?) as both increase the damage from Liandry's. As her damage scales with health, she is a great candidate for item 2049

You need the AP item first, as it significantly boosts your gank damage and dramatically increases your clear speed. After your first AP item start building tanky. You generally want to delay the item 3725 until you have AP and armor as it doesn't help your clearing. She's an AP bruiser, and ~2 AP items (typically with added health, MR or armor) and the rest tank items seems about right and provides great damage and survivability.

Typical builds: item 3725 item 3047 item 3151 item 3110 item 3001 item 3068 item 3725 item 3047 item 3151 item 3116 item 3143 item 3102 ...

Honestly she may be a little overtuned at the moment. Her CC, durability, damage and clear speed are all superb once she has her core items.

Winged Hussars12/14/2014, 8:31:04 PM1 votes

Probably an oversight because the frost debuff was designed based on her old cooldown.

OyddAWqJ5r12/15/2014, 1:13:12 AM1 votes

They tried to cover their real intent by saying they are "stay in the fight buffs" when honestly not much is gonna change from this. The only thing that this really affects is the viability of AP Sejauni. By moving the power away from Q and E and onto W AP Sej can no longer burst targets.

This will however help her clear jungle faster due to the % health on W and the jg monster's increased HP.

MattAkhavan12/15/2014, 1:34:48 AM1 votes

thats not ho

{quoted} So I play Sejuani a fair amount, and I can't say I'm overly thrilled by the new changes. Riot said that the changes were in order to give her incentive to stay in the fight, but her W already provided that incentive, since it was a large part of her damage and it was a 4 second DoT. What's more, with 40% CDR, you could actually cast your W pretty much as soon as the DoT finished. Combined with an Iceborn and a Sunfire, you were dealing some serious sustained damage.

It looks like Riot was trying to switch a lot of Sej's sustained damage to permafrost, which would be great if there wasn't the delay on reapplying frost. As it stands, though, Having a 3.6 second CD on won't do you much good.

Permafrost has a 1.5 second duration and then targets have immunity to frost for 3 seconds. That means 4.5 seconds minimum. Probably more like 5 or 6 when you figure in having to actually reapply frost and then cast permafrost. So unless Riot is trying to tell a tank not to build CDR, that doesn't make much sense. And they nerfed the slow duration, so really a net nerf on her CC in fights. With old Sej's 2.5 second slow, the CD with max CDR was 6.6 seconds, which worked out nicely with the frost reapplication CD and provided a strong CC presence.

Riot, any explanation on these changes? I'm failing to see the buffs here... am I missing something?

thats not how frost works.

Sammystorm12/15/2014, 7:03:02 AM1 votes

To be fair the w changes helped her first clear a lot.

MrSc0tty12/15/2014, 4:28:51 PM1 votes

Um..don't you reapply the frost immediately?

Carniverous12/15/2014, 8:01:11 PM1 votes

One thing that I find usefull is that with the % health damage not on her Q, I can use W to kill, and make better choice of when to use her Q. Save it to Kock Fiddles up? Check. Save it to escape over the wall? Check. Now I don't have to worry as much, for it being a part of my damage, (As much. )

Frikgeek12/15/2014, 8:22:19 PM1 votes

They're not telling you not to build CDR, just that you don't need 40%. How would you even get that? IBG+jungle enchant is only 20%, where do you get the other 20%? Do you really need even more mana from FH? Wouldn't it be better to take the HP +ranged slow from Randuin's if you want an AS slow? I guess you could build a SV but the passive doesn't benefit you that much. Abyssal or a banshee's would be a better choice for MR. And you'll want a sunfire for the extra DoT. I guess you could build lucidity, but mercs or tabis are so much better for a tank.