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Zhonya' hourglass is as toxic as Deathfire Grasp

xLegendary Troll·3/2/2015, 3:25:20 PM·7 votes·2,807 views

Everyone is complaining about the Veigar nerfs and how they were promised compensations for the removal of DFG. The truth of the matter is that these AP Assassins never needed DFG. Ahri, Katarina, and Leblanc are still strong, if not stronger than ever. Veigar was also extremely strong in soloQ after the removal of DFG which called for an emergency nerf. Now the spot light is on Annie, another to have been "negatively impacted" by DFG's removal. However, this thread is about .

They removed DFG because it was toxic. I believe Zhonyas is just as toxic or even worse than DFG. Deathfire grasp was an overpowered offensive item and Zhonyas is an overpowered defensive item. The ability to completely negate all incoming damage, cc, etc is more OP than slightly increasing your damage output. Why is this item still in the game? Is it because of ? Is one item in this game to counter certain timed ultimates? Isn't that a little overpowered?

I think that by removing LoL will be more balanced. Players won't be forced into buying this item to "counter" other champions and Riot can balance counter play far more effectively. For instance, the problem right now is Annie's AoE instant stun. Instead of being forced to rush or , they can adjust the champion like they did with Veigar. I know I'm going to get down voted, but don't be surprised if in a few years they remove it like they did with DFG.

If you disagree with me, please explain why Zhonyas is a healthy item balance wise.

45 Comments

Hoi Im Temmo3/2/2015, 3:38:55 PM4 votes

Let me preface by saying that I think that Zhonya's is a negative item.

OK, now:

Is it Toxic? I don't think so. While it can be frustrating, it usually (as in out of every time an hourglass is used) does not save the user. It stalls for time, or is a last ditch attempt to get away. There are some champs who benefit more than others (looks at fizz) but the item itself is not the problem in these cases.
Even if it IS toxic, as toxic as dfg? No. Definitely not. This is coming from someone who played the (expletive) out of Veigar-dfg, and let me tell you. Zed wiffing an ulti here and there (who, I dont feel bad for, cause F*** that champ) is NOTHING compared to the sheer rage and hate you get from the other team when you 100-0 ANYTHING. literally, it was causing instantaneous deaths, that you could not fight back or escape. You just died. that was it.
Being removed? I could see them do it, and even would understand, and not really mind - but if they do, I would expect at least season 6 before it happens.

Tsugaga3/2/2015, 3:34:43 PM2 votes

DFG is way different than hourglass, DFG was basically a "blow someone up" item, hourglass adds a lot more strategy to the game and play options for mages. It's also really the only counter play against a lot of champions and usually the only armour item worth building. Players just have to work around an hourglass, just like champs such as WW and Morde wouldn't ult someone who has a QSS.

Knight SoIaire 3/3/2015, 2:04:21 PM2 votes

well if we compare the concept to what it actualy does this is indeed a toxic item the main purpose that this item was created for was to give apc's time to get back on their cooldowns without getting collapsed on but what does it realy acomplish and what does riot do with it ? a) they make mages who dont innately rely on it like xeraht with his range, or lissandra who has built in zhonya and lots of cc or mages without any significant cooldowns b)they focus most of its power into reducing damage isntead of allowing a mage to get another spell rotation, so its best at blocing burst c)they ballance the powerlevel of some bursty champs around the fact that this item can completly remove it, example is zed who can double your hp pool with his damage even if you are a tank, yet riot wont nerf it cause enemies could get zhonyas

owerall zhonya has a spot in our game and its a very important spot, but riot changes the game so it wont need the item

so in the end zhonya isnt the item that allows mages to live till they get cooldowns, but a counter item to burst, any kind of burst and any further ballance puts this item even deeper into that role

sry for typos typing while drunk

Meep Man3/2/2015, 3:45:25 PM2 votes

They cant do anything to you, you cant do anything you arent already doing.

SquirrellyOtter3/3/2015, 1:16:14 AM1 votes

DFG lacked counterplay. It was an on-click nuke. Point, click, blow shit up. Can't build anything to resist it because DFG (magic damage amplifier) was stacked with Rabadon's (AP/magic damage amplifier) and Void Staff (ignore magic resistance).

Zhonya has counterplay, because it gives some armor but not enough that your AD carry running Last Whisper is useless, and the active leaves the user at the mercy of their team: if their team can't defend you (and assuming it's a 5v5 teamfight, you using it makes it 4v5 for two critical seconds in their favor), you're gonna get eaten alive the moment you come out of Zhonya's.

Trolly? Slightly. Toxic? Not even close.

SmokingPuffin3/3/2015, 1:18:02 AM1 votes

If you disagree with me, please explain why Zhonyas is a healthy item balance wise.

It provides counterplay for burst combos without simply making a champion more durable. Does very little against sustained damage.
It is an item that is situationally good to build; we don't have nearly enough of these in mage builds. Whether and when to build Zhonya's is one of the few questions worth asking about a mage build today.
It has high skill cap. A skilled player gets much more value than a noob from this item.

Wînter Fox3/3/2015, 1:21:59 AM1 votes

If you disagree with me, please explain why Zhonyas is a healthy item balance wise.

You should explain why Zhonya's is toxic first.

Abyssphere3/2/2015, 3:32:30 PM1 votes

It has trade-offs. Negate a whole bunch of damage? Cool, but you're completely cutting off your damage output too and giving your enemy all the time in the world to position perfectly to murder you the second you leave stasis.

Tengrichan3/3/2015, 5:58:35 PM1 votes

I agree.It's a shame that one item can decide teamfights and even matches alone.What is the point of the active?Because right now it's only used to avoid taking dmg or cc.It's stupid as hell.

BeatzBoyFTW3/2/2015, 3:43:46 PM1 votes

Yeah, getting nuked by Veigar ult in a one shot kill is so much fun indeed.

Rasv3/2/2015, 3:51:34 PM1 votes

I disagree with you because Zhonia's can be extremely useful if used properly and is not the most efficient use of gold if used improperly.

Acidic Puddle3/2/2015, 4:43:16 PM1 votes

Zhonya's is a great item, it allows for counterplay to very difficult champions to deal with. Not Toxic at all, and doesn't melt people like DFG. Also I have seen it kill the user many times due to not knowing how to use it. So therefore it is not like DFG which is super easy to use and insta drops people.