Just read again that Lee falls off in few threads. Can someone enlighten me?
100% ad scaling on Q1, 100% on Q2, 100% on E and 200% on ult that is good at 1v1 and in teamfights. 40% as on his passive and dash on W.
Like really, why are ppl saying that?
Does a game even last long enough for a champion to "fall off" anymore? And no, lee has been given plenty of buffs since a few seasons back when he did fall off, and games actually went longer than 20 minutes.
"Fall off" does not apply only to damage. Fall Off can apply to simply being in situations where it's far harder to do your job. For example, in lane, Renekton and Pantheon have high pressure, and easy trades that limit their own damage. However, come late game, Pantheon's single target nature and having to deal with more than one person results in him falling off, because his trade pattern is far more dangerous to himself. He circumvents this by transitioning to an engager/splitpusher, using his ult to influence and pressure the map. Pantheon is still by far able to kill people, but it's considerably harder too because the way he plays makes it harder.
In my opinion, which you may disagree with, Lee Sin falls off because his strengths in dueling and ganking are far poorer late game. Not because he doesn't do enough damage, but because when teams are grouped, his target selection is extremely limited. Unless he outplays by managing to flank from behind, flash a Q on a mispositioned carry, or be fed enough where it doesn't matter who he murders, Lee Sin can't engage on squishier targets, and while he's not bad with killing tankier targets, they're not going to die fast enough.
Now, he has a plethora of tools to circumvent that somewhat, like his ult doing more damage based on a target's max Hp%, making a tanky frontliner into a potential dangerous projectile, but that alone isn't enough to circumvent the weakness that Lee is good at dueling, not handling multiple targets. It's very similar to assassin's in that regard, where they're great at killing, but struggle in a teamfight were a tank/support could interupt them and save their carry.
Once again, it's not that they don't do enough damage come late, it's that their strengths are geared better towards early, and they require a substantial amount more effort to affect the game. Pantheon needs his ult to get to squishier carries, Renekton can't dash-stun-damage-dash for free damage, Lee needs to rely far more on his tools to, Juggernauts struggle with being kited in teams, Assassin's can't do their job easily with supports and tanks, etc, etc.
He falls off because his teamfight isn't the best compared to other champions. Not because his dueling potential actually gets weaker. Same with Olaf, he is still a premier 1v1 champion he just can't teamfight. Elise also "falls off" but she still oneshots squishys. She isn't considered to have good scaling because she is purely single target burst.
He does though, The strategy behind early game champions is to bully enemies into submission early and capitalize on the lead gained from it before enemies have a chance to recover and close the gap.
If early game champions are unable to close a match before their enemies scale beyond their control then the impact champions such as Lee have on the game rapidly diminishes.
An early game champion will often seek out kills and amass them so as to attain a massive gold lead with which to build their core items while simultaneously placing enemies on timeout, preventing them from gaining gold and experience, delaying their eventual power spikes.
Early game champions excel at delaying the inevitable, but are hard pressed to secure victory before then. Early game champions are designed to race to a quick finish whereas late game champions are designed to endure and delay enemies so as to secure victory in their own fashion.
A sort of Tortoise Vs. the Hare situation if you will in which the Hare cannot afford to underestimate the Tortoise else they face certain defeat.
He falls off for the same reason most melee ad users do. They are not their best in full 5v5 teamfights cause they are 3 hits of the adc before they can even do anything and because they can't easily reach priority targets Altho I gotta admit riot are doing their best to keep him relevant xD
Bonus ad and ad are different. Find the difference before you make this post.
"Later" lmao
these games are closed out before 30 minutes even in silver now
Falling off was a 5-6 item term used when the game actually required methodical play and skill,
it's literally just aram and small skirmish central until you have enough gear over your opponent to force them into their base. Take dragons to accelerate this, or lose them all and just steal Elder and accomplish the same thing because fuck it.
They amount of damage you do is irrelevant if you can't apply it, It becomes hard for Lee to apply his damage late game. Same reason Kassadin is a late game champ despite not having bad base damages, it's hard for him to apply those damages early.
You know what doesn't make sense though. The fact that a hyper moblie, burst god with a point and click AOE CC, still somehow gets to outduel champs like Rek'sai and Udyr in early game skirmishers while also having better sustain clearing JG camps.
People say Lee Sin falls off because he used to fall off.
Building full damage on champions like Lee used to be a cheese strat that didn't actually work against good players, because AD caster itemization wasn't nearly as strong as it is now.
He'd build Spirit of the Elder Lizard (the equivalent of Warrior) and maybe a hydra or cleaver, but after that he'd have to build tank if he wanted to be useful.
The result is that after 30 minutes, Lee lost the ability to burst people down.
i mean compared to ekko and olaf, he does fall off quite a bit
