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Seriously, if you're going to complain about Garen, please complain about the Villain passive

dustinhihi2·10/7/2015, 9:07:50 PM·101 votes·4,737 views

Because when I see those "omg his silence lasts forever", "hes too tanky wtffff" and "i cant kite him wttttffffffffffff" posts, I seriously question myself about intelligence on Earth.

Literally all those abilities have been nerfed just for the gimmick Villain passive.

Here's a list if you don't believe me:

BASE STATS: - HP per level reduced to 84.25 from 96.

  • Movement Speed reduced to 340 from 345.

Q: - Movement Speed Boost duration reduced to 1.5/2/2.5/3/3.5 seconds from 1.5/2.25/3/3.75/4.5 seconds

  • Movement Speed Boost reduced to 30% from 35%.
  • Silence duration reduced to 1.5 at all ranks from 1.5/1.75/2/2.25/2.5 seconds.

W: - No longer grants Bonus Armor and Magic Resist based on your Bonus Armor and Magic Resist.

  • Tenacity component removed from Active.

E: - Damage reduced overall until lvl 16. There are maths to prove it.

  • Only deals 75% damage to multiple units now (used to be only on minions).

Please, stop complaining about him, there are way worse champions than him, and he's sitting at a 52% winrate in Platinium+ with a small 8-10% play rate.

He's fucking fine for god damn sake.

89 Comments

Eedat10/7/2015, 9:20:49 PM30 votes

THANK YOU

HayRoss10/7/2015, 9:41:56 PM21 votes

THANK YOU! As a Garen main, I'm tired of people shitting on Garen for doing stuff he's always been able to do better. Do you stupid fucks even read the patch notes?

Ticklish Tas10/8/2015, 3:11:31 AM8 votes

>small 8-10% >small

lol

qetzel10/7/2015, 11:18:33 PM7 votes

Now that he has the villain passive the other benefits to his kit - like the silence, tankiness and slow removal - are a problem. It just goes to show how much weaker a champion is if they don't threaten any damage.

Removing or greatly lessening the threat he offers - the villain passive - is not the way to go. It will remove the threat that he needs to be relevant. Making it possible to avoid that threat by nerfing the silence (can jump away), tankiness (can burst him down first), or slow removal (can kite more easily) would be better. If he needs nerfs, that is. Not sure...

On the other point, ~8% is average, and 51.9% is rather high for players with little experience on the champion.

I am not sure he needs nerfs. There are ways to deal with him. If he does though then the mini game is not necessarily the problem. The problem is how easy it is for him to win it.

A Miss Fortune10/8/2015, 9:55:40 AM5 votes

I remember that if you dared to say that Garen was even remotely overpowering in any way at all prior to his rework, people would just call you a troll. Now people are calling him freelo after everything in his kit was nerfed/removed (Free AR, MR, Tenacity, more mobility, more damage, more CC, more sustain, more damage) because Garen can potentially do true damage to one person on a team after level 6.

Social Justice 110/7/2015, 9:31:58 PM4 votes

I didn't have to complain because people weren't playing him before.

Not to mention that the change to items that came before/with the juggernaut rework really helped him out.

Auryiel10/8/2015, 2:11:32 AM3 votes

Here's why your argument about complaining about his tankyness or silence duration are irrelevant : Before, those did not matter. They were nerfed, yes, but his damage to tankyness ratio has gone way, WAY up. That's why people complain about those things.

Just because something about his kit was nerfed doesn't allow you to look at his current kit in a vacuum and say ''well those areas were stronger before so people who complain about it are stupid''.

Either wat idgaf I only play ARAM, but your reasoning is really flawed.

ZT Xperimentor10/8/2015, 6:03:34 PM2 votes

Vulgarity is no substitute for wit

Kas12710/7/2015, 10:09:33 PM2 votes

Seriously, if you are going to make a post with a nonsense title at least don't contradict yourself.

Garen is good early game. However, he sucks lategame because his items are really weak against the amount of damage champs can dish out at that point. He doesn't have anything to complain about. Although, with the 31st of Oct just around the corner, I think Riot will need to nerf his bushes. They are scarier than Evelyn's stealth.

FostXTV10/8/2015, 5:31:13 AM2 votes

Yeah, just complain about Garen. I like how you all are complaining. Yes, he is op and he deserves to be. Just check his lore and you will know. He is one of main people in Demacia, he slained Urgot, he fought with Katarina and many more. Also, while you are complaining about Garen you should check Katarina. She has no mana and she has low cooldowns and basically if she is ahead she will one shot your whole team with only one fking button. So please..

The Governer10/8/2015, 12:40:14 PM2 votes

People forget the actual problem is not only Garen's Villain passive, but also how DMP item 3742 synergizes with him. The culprit is this item, which provides too much movement speed, too much HP and too much armor and auto attack amplification for such a low cost. It's easily one of the cost-effective items, and I think for an item that does this much and works so well with Garen's Q, it should be nerfed (for the sake of other Jaggernauts like Darius Darius too). We can also argue that his AD per level is a little too high, to the point that he is one of the Top 5 champions in the List of Base AD at level 18, and whether or not it should be nerfed depends on whether how DMP is/could be/will be nerfed really.

Neither his Silence, nor his tankiness are the culprit. They are fine as they should be.

P.S. Also you forgot to mention his E that can

  1. deal 33% more damage against isolated target, and
  2. generate more ticks (aka more damage) the higher Garen's level is.
  3. no longer reduce your movement speed if you hit enemy minions with it.

The 33% amplification may be a downgrade since it used to be "33% more damage on enemy champions", regardless of how many enemies are hit by E, but the second feature is pretty much a new feature in Garen's rework that generates more DPS the longer the game goes and both the second and the third feature pretty much nullify the "nerf" of the first feature, and therefore I think it could use some tuning too.

I am also confused as to your statement regarding his E dealing 75% damage to multiple units and dealing overall less damage than E of pre-rework Garen until level 16, care to explain and share your evidence about that?

ahferroin710/8/2015, 4:25:28 PM2 votes

To quote Einstein: "Two things are infinite in life, the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe."

Krys Star10/8/2015, 5:01:58 PM2 votes

Well, to be fair, he's sitting at a 52% win rate with 8-10% pick rate because of his high bans. That's a really high win rate when you take his small pick rate into consideration. I, personally, find Garen to be dealt with as long as he doesn't get a huge lead start. He can be kited and dealt with, and I don't think his Villain is really the problem. I think it has to do with his passive that makes him heal up way too quickly when you punish him and don't kill him. My two cents, however.

SKOBODO10/8/2015, 8:50:56 AM1 votes

I think the villain passive was a mistake. Sure, it added some interesting gameplay for Garen, but it also made him too strong in 1v 1s versus villains, and it made him weaker overall versus non-villains.