Rest in Peace Veigar.

pretty sure he's now unplayable in every meta

he is unplayable in and out of meta

the new Veigar is so weak

Veigar was viable as a support before these changes... Now there's no point playing him over anyone else. And as mid, lets not even go there. Dark matter needed a full rework if you were changing his stun.

I was one of those who thought it was a buff until I've tried it today. Let's see:

Q: A buff and nerf, ie. if you can farm a lot and your jungle is nice and pays a lot of attention to your lane, and in general, your opponent doesn't push too much or gets very aggressive, is clearly a buff, as more than once you'll kill two minions with Q and you'll obtain more AP than now. Now in combos, it's worse than before, why?, the range of the ulti remains the same, ie, if you want to get the combo E + W + Q + R, you must remain almost in melee range, is it right now, right?, nope, first you have to be lucky enough to hit the E (0.25 sec cast + time delay = +0.75 sec have to predict the position of the enemy champion 1 sec before in advance), then W + R but the problem comes when you're using the Q, if 2 champions in front of your target, or two minions, you won't hit the Q. So here's a "potential buff" and nerf in many other situations.

W: Less mana cost starting lvl 8 (W is the last skill to maximize), so here in the early game, still have the same mana problems. Less cd, okay, perfect. The problem comes when you try to hit an enemy champion. Before, it was a skill that was used when you had aimed well the E, ie, if you've landed a nice skillshot, it will reward you by giving you the opportunity of casting a W. Now, as E no longer can be hit as such (against experienced players can not acertarla instant, ie, after the delay of 0.75) then W is not going to do as much damage as before, and you'll have far fewer chances to use it properly. It has an area of effect too small, even if they stay inside your E, you need someone else to make sure you can hit with a W. Of course, if the enemy is slowed or cced for a champion on your team, you'll be able to land W but it's not the proper way this spell should work, and as I explained, less stuns = less Ws = less damage overall.

E: Increased range, mana cost reduction and cd. Delay 0.75 seconds. Even leaving aside the amount of champions able to dodge skillshots, mobility has increased significantly lately (just look the LCS to see what champions are the safest, those with mobility or teamfight potential) I would not be dissapointed if they had balanced the rest of the kit around "you're not a magician who can CC a champion on which you have properly aimed your unique control ability". As I explained earlier, the problem is not the E's nerf, it can be nerfed but they have to balance the rest of the kit around it. Because it's not a nerf to stun, is a nerf to stun and the damage that Veigar can deal.

A: Less mana costs in the mid / late game, this is like the W, the problem of Veigar's mana costs are in the early game, if you don't reduce those costs, everything will stay the same, in the late he has no problems. Less cd, perfect, direct buff. -20% Bonus on your AP. They explained that this nerf was because their testings, with the new mechanics of the Q, Veigar was getting higher levels of AP than before, so overall, this was a balancing by other changes, not a nerf, even a small buff if you can get ahead. I'm fine with that.

Right now there is no reason why someone would choose Veigar instead of Xerath / Syndra / Ahri, etc in mid. I honestly do not see what direction this champion is taken or what direction they want to take, he is not a "You're a wizard that will surely lose the line, but still you can help your team with your unique control ability while you wait for late game and can face the enemy team "(E doesn't rely on your skill now, it relies on the oponent's skill to dodge it so you cannot rely on Veigar as a tool of helping your team with your unreliable cc, there are other picks more suitable for mid), he is not "You're a magician that can deal huge amounts of damage to a single target while you are 'safe'" (I don't know if i'll stun or not with E, or if someone block your Q your only tool to inflict damage (not sure 650 range) reliably is the ulti, skill that can deny all AP carrys that have Zhonyas), nor is "You're a magician with a good sustained long range damage at the cost of not having mobility or good cc skills" (in fact, you don't have mobility, not a realiable cc, and you don't have long range poke).

Right now Veigar does not shine in any area, he has a phase a little (A LITTLE) safer in lane, but as Riot said, they want Veigar to keep losing the lane against others midlaners that don't have the ability to scale so well in the late game.

If you want to stand with Veigar now, you must take the mechanics of the Q, because you are not a heavy-cc mage anymore, so at least you must provide damage, damage at close range though. The problem is that if the enemy team is on the same level, surely you'll lose the lane, and you won' be able to farm. I've played Veigar in ranked a lot and I can ensure that it is one of the most flamed champions, because if people see you've lost lane, you have more chances of getting flamed that if you don't lose. Veigar was a risky pick, one reason was this, you don't have a very large capacity to roam during the early / mid game (which does not happen with other midlaners), so if you lose lane (is designed for it) or you can not keep your opponent (you must spamming the Q to be effective in the late game so you have mana shortage, poor mobility, now do not have a very reliable cc, etc) surely they will flame you for it. And maybe, they'll deny your blue and surely the fight will be moving to mid, where, if you have not been able to farm in the early game, you won't be able to do it in the mid game, and, without stacking the Q or getting gold (Veigar continues farming very badly without blue and without W) when you reach the late game (if it comes) you won't be ready to face the enemy team.

There are many solutions that can be taken:

Q: Increase the range, transform Veigar into a standard wizard, long range sustained damage. Or make it do damage to all enemies who pass through, a % reduction per unit crossed, etc.

W: Increase the area of effect to match the size of the E, Riot said he wanted Veigar to keep their enemies within his E and then torment them with Q and W, well, since you have aimed well to enclose them with your E, now increase the size of the area of the W for matching the new E. Or, decrease in 1 second the time delay of W, 0.2 seconds, right now it's almost imposible hitting a E and the size of the area of W is too small.

E: Leave it as it's, which motivates lock instead of trying to nail the instantaneous stun, I agree.

R: Increase the range according to the new Q, I do not see where is the sense in offsetting the loss of stun slightly increasing the range of Q, at the cost of decreasing the damage of R. And make the Q to pass through units if it reamins as a skillshot.

I understand that Veigar generate many tears, really, but I hope Riot don't try to transform him into Lux, one trollpick that is a very good champion against inexperienced players, but unviable at competitive play. It was easy to face Veigar before, just had to make counterpick in lane to avoid farm, exploit their lack of mobility and roaming potential and build banshee's veil in the mid / late game. And if soneone doesn't know, Zhonyas, and other skills (Fizz's jump, Vladimir's W, Zed's ulti, etc) make useless the Veigar's ulti (0 damage).

If Riot wants to balance this champion for low ELO, I would like to know.

What bothers me most is that now his stun is just a MUCH WORSE version of sorakas.... you dont even get silence.... Hell I would PREFER hers over this current garbage.

I love OLD VEIGAR!

I hate new veigar.

rollback his changes

As if it wasn't challenging enough to try to judge how to land my W and E.. now i have this piece of crap skillshot to worry about too? no thanks. I just won't play him any more until they change him back.

If Final Boss Veigar made as much as any Ahri skin I bet he would be OP right now.

Can anyone post a video of somebody actually landing his E > W combo? Seems literally impossible to do now considering the massive delays he already has to deal with. Not only was his E not a guarunteed stun and easy enough to avoid earlier, now with the delay you would literally have to have terrible reaction time AND (this means both have to happen) the Veigar would have to land the ring EXACTLY where you are about to be. Besides, how is he supposed to use his W anymore? I might actually be okay with these nerfs if, in addition, they made Veigar's meteor (its a freaking meteor!!!) deal a whole heck of a lot more damage (but otherwise dont you dare touch it), to punish severely the enemies who could not dodge it (Similar to how Nidalee's spears hurt a ****ton but can be dodged relatively easily). Right now his W really isn't that good so that would be my gripe about it.

I do think it is interesting to have a Q skillshot and range increase though.

[{quoted}](name=Annie ßot,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0YnvgLIE,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-02-25T16:39:25.442+0000)

You were already a mediocre champion. You are now unplayable in the current meta.

So True, no idea which rioter needs to get fired.

Am I the only one that considers this a buff? They nerfed his event horizon and his R by a tiny bit... And buffed a lot of his other abilities (Q is a lot better) and the mana and CD is lower

I was of the opinion that these changes were pretty nasty nerfs, but I wanted to try them for myself.

I did.

Those changes are disgusting.

Just completely rework his W please

RIP: The tiny master of Evil.

Before it was hard to face fizz, zed, leblanc to some point, but you could at least try

Now is completely impossible to face any mid, it's just retarded

So I played a game with the new Veigar, and everything seems ok. That is untill you get attacked... there is no way to get away unless you have flash. Your stun can't save you like it used to. If the enemy has a dash you can't win. They just ignore your stun and kill you. A second later it pops up.

I don't know how many games I've played with Veigar but it's at least 300 which puts me in a good position to comment on his gameplay.

Most players I've heard complain against Veigar simply didn't understand Veigar's mechanics which gave them a huge disadvantage to start with. When people start complaining about being deleted it's because he's been fed (early to mid game. Late game is a different story).

Veigar's stun was the only tool he had to land W and it was also his only exit option. Was the stun OP? Yes. Was removing the instant nature of the stun the answer? No. In my opinion increasing its cooldown was probably the best answer. Another option would have been to reduce the range you can cast it to which would have forced Veigar to get into the danger zone, hence increasing the risk level of using the spell.

I have no concern with the other changes. If anything I believe the Q makes him stronger since it reduces the risk level when performing the combo.

I'm sure Riot did their due diligence by computer win/lose and KDA ratios. I would think that is a good indicator of whether a char is OP or not.

I hope Riot considers reviewing the changes because as it stands, I refuse to play him this way and by the sound of it many feel the same.

Firsts things first! 1 All this started cause of dfg. Who the hell build dfg on veigar anyway? Veigar never need it, i never build it. 2 Veigar IS NOT THREAT TO SOLO Q OR THE PROFESSIONAL COMPETITIVE SCENE! Why the HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE NERF? 3 Veigar never need change a t all! What counter play bullshit is this? (As point No2...) 4 I am very sad to verify he is unplayable. He's not veigar anymore, lost identity, that's it.

As he is right now, i am done with him.

i wish those fucks would respond to something. literally everyone who plays him has been saying his rework needed tweaks since it entered the pbe, but they haven't said a word.

The biggest problem is the delay on this AoE stun... taking almost a second to appear now gives anyone with a brain plenty of time to move out of the way... thus making him even more useless.

The whole "Veiger is OP" concept is nonsense.... just buy and gg....

A champion did die this patch. I'm just wondering if was Veigar or Kassadin.

Less than a week ago, I played veigar in ranked because I had no idea who to really pick again katarina and I felt like playing him after seeing him getting attention from being gutted on PBE. I actually did really well, but it didn't feel like I was abusing him or anything. I saw so many opportunities and they just didn't go in on them. He was actually decent even without DFG, but all Riot wants to do is nerf him "in exchange" for removing dfg, because that wasn't already a nerf.

2009-2015. Brutally murdered after being baited with compensatory Buffs. His dead and cold tiny body was found near midlane's outer turret.

I honestly hate the new Q. Farming might be easier, but goddamn, its annoying to get your Q R burst off(for me anyway) and the stun is pretty landable...if they are stunned by someone else first.

I used to play the tiny master a lot, i doubt ill even touch em now.

I play him well enough to nuke the heck outta people

Lol I main'd veigar for probably over 400 games. I got good enough to go against anyone in silver(not saying much) no matter what mid. He's gone from an underdog to completely useless. GG veig it's been a good run. Now I'm going to main all the OP champs and show RIOT how ridiculous they're being. If I can have 2 KDA with veigar gimme Ahri and I'll how ya how it is.

GG veigar mord such powerful transformations. Much impress such delusion

how was he mediocre before this nerf? I remember him 2 hitting anyobody that got cc'ed. He was so OP... if you fed a viegar it was basicly GG.

Thank God they nerfed him. His stunning portal had ZERO counter-play. That is no longer allowed. Sorry to burst your cheese...